AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[Maybelline]

Exactly, the "suicide" description is simply a call for EMS. They had a body and had done no investigation at that point. The fact that the called in the kicked in door a couple of minutes later tells you they hadn't even approached the door at that point.

That actually makes perfect sense. If they deem it a homicide then no need to rush if someone is already dead but abpossible suicide could mean they can be revived possibly or are not actually dead.

 

[SeattleStew]

Article from October, clarifying the door had been kicked in when LE arrived.

911 call log: Officers found door kicked in, parents' bodies, no Jayme

Great catch! I am more suspicious that a gunshot was heard in 911 call. As it has been discussed here previously, most gun deaths are suicide. Hence, LE preconception of suicide. I am positive they knew it was murder within seconds of being on scene. Who kicks their own front door open before killing themselves. The front door locked in would be first hard evidence, second, James feet. Third, James, Fourth, James gunshot wound. No gun, no suicide.

Again, this is me positing a theory that gunshot heard on 911 call. Go ahead and rule it in or out. TIA



bbm

 

[dub]

Good point ...That’s always hurt my head also. 2 shots. Seconds apart and the second shot is louder ... what ... so first shot gun pointed in house or 1 step in house. 2nd is outside house 1 step. As if Denise trying to move towards gunman...

I could see both going towards door first drops James. While Denise dials 911 moves towards door boom second shot.. causing phone to be tossed as call goes through ?? Denise bolts injured to bathroom..

Or jayme dials 911 as perp shoots maybe she drops phone as she bolts out of house...

Truly dunno.., but think your right. 2 shots 1/2 in succession.. if those 2 are it... that’s odd.. guessing they’ve known sense 24 hours in if only 2 shots

The thing about the second shot being louder is weird, although I suspect that detail was just a perceptual thing on the part of the neighbors.

Like, the first shot was not fully processed for one reason or another (I think the neighbors were asleep right? I'm not positive on that though) but when the second one happened they were more attuned to the loud noises, hence it being perceived as louder for the first, or something like that?

Then again, you'd think if the second shot was from inside the house it would be distinctly quieter than the first, so I'm not sure what I think yet about that detail. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it was just a matter of two shooters with two different guns (which I imagine is also is something LE would be aware of, but who knows).

 

[Maybelline]

This looks like a webcam image to me, but she is also wearing the same clothing from this shot previously released. They're listed as "undated."

(source)

Now I feel uncomfortable. You know how it is said that people can hack into your computers webcam and watch you and that you should cover the camera portion when not using it, I am wondering if this could have been any possibility for someone to watch her/her family. The idea that this happens is very real although I do not know how common or easy it is to do but have read about it happening enough.

 

[JaneEyre]

Even 60 days seems way to short a time... people in business or sports hold grudge 10/20 years as motivation.. drew brees still pissed off at San Diego..

I’d go back 2 yrs minimum.. if u see odd something... look into.. why was Denise texting my kid/wife at 11 pm... anyone says that 1 yr ago I’d think that’s a flag..

1 yr ago somebody text we got fired from jenni o and wife’s pregnant ... supervisor gonna pay for this... id flag that..

Realize it’s a ***** to get all this stuff in last 2 years... just think 60 days is nothing.. I’m still pissed KD went to golden state and that’s 4 years ago...(deep breaths).

Well, I think they might go back further, but you start with most recent, move on to less recent, and then on and on back.

 

[bellyup]

If law enforcement has a reasonable belief that a phone was somewhere within the area they will be able to obtain a warrant to get cell tower dumps for a period of time and get a list of all phones that had been connected to the tower. They truly can do this and I am sure they have.

Connected to the tower and within 50 yards of the Closs residence are worlds apart but you know that. The question was can they narrow down all cell phones that have been within 50 yards of the Closs residence in a set time frame.
The answer is no. Not likely.
I answered the question as it was asked and my information was accurate.
There are a lot of "if this than that" when it comes to cell phone forensics in a kidnapping case. Like you said ... airplane mode will kill it all. What I posted was specifically related to THIS case and what is currently likely available to LE.

 

[JRW]

Has anyone heard anything from or seen news stories involving Jame's Brothers or sister or mother? I have only seen news clips with Denise's family.. I'd like to hear from Jame's family and see what they are saying.. Any idea on why they are so silent?

 

[kebdal23]

I can't stop thinking about a theory that came to me recently while reading posts about other cases. What if Jayme was the target all along and her parents were purposely killed in front of her because after they abducted her they would have more control - "nobody is looking for you", "your family is gone" type of thing. I had never thought of it from that angle before and I'm more disheartened than ever about Jayme. All speculation and MOO.

 

[bellyup]

Has anyone heard anything from or seen news stories involving Jame's Brothers or sister or mother? I have only seen news clips with Denise's family.. I'd like to hear from Jame's family and see what they are saying.. Any idea on why they are so silent?

Closs family shares their grief one month later

This interview is with James's brother and sister.

 

[JRW]

Closs family shares their grief one month later

This interview is with James's brother and sister.

Thank you!

 

[elektroangel]

@DutchTreat it won't let me quote you, but unmarked cars are different all over Wisconsin. It really depends. Usually they are black but I have seen them as white. Some are Dodge Chargers and others are Ford Explorers. But it changes every few years when they get new vehicles.

 

[Maybelline]

I know the current question is regarding "abduction" vs "endangered",
But the requirements for an Amber Alert include a "suspect" and/or "suspect vehicle" description. But as we know, theres no suspect, and the info on the vehicle is sketchy.

Therefore, "endangered" is really the only criteria leaving the AL open right now, so I suspect he is nervous talking about this topic. Lord knows we dont want that AL removed!

WI law only requires "endagered", Im not sure how USDOJ defines it.

 

[Hatfield]

I can't stop thinking about a theory that came to me recently while reading posts about other cases. What if Jayme was the target all along and her parents were purposely killed in front of her because after they abducted her they would have more control - "nobody is looking for you", "your family is gone" type of thing. I had never thought of it from that angle before and I'm more disheartened than ever about Jayme. All speculation and MOO.

JMO
That is a possible theory for sure. My personal theory right now is similar but starts like this.

Just guessing that she may have been conversing with someone she thought was her friend either over the internet from afar or even locally. And she began sharing stuff, you know how kids can sometimes get at her age and they begin to be a little resentful about how their parents are controlling their lives (as the parents should to keep their kids out of trouble). But this other "friend" takes it all wrong and thinks in his mind that she is basically a prisoner in her own home by mean parents and that she needs "saving" and by golly he is the one that is going to save her. So he comes in guns a blazing and takes out both parents and whisks her away. He thinks she will be happy but she was probably horrified and couldnt believe the monster that just entered the home.

Anyway just been my theory since the beginning. Its a little similar to your theory in that by taking out the parents it eliminates them from her ever thinking they can be looking for her and the perp can begin his brainwashing of their new life together.

I may be way off base.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I'm curious why Jayme's phone was charging in the kitchen.. I know many kids who have a cell phone also use them as an alarm clock to wake up in the morning. I'm curious if she had been using it at night when she was supposed to be sleeping and it was taken away and she had to leave it in the kitchen charging due to overuse or misuse?

Yes, I also questioned why it would be charging in the kitchen . . . Unless 1) they used a multi-phone charging system or Unless 2) Parents had strict rules. Phones are appendages to kids.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Has anyone seen follow-up on LE talking w/cars that were passing by the Closs house the night of the murder / abduction? I’m wondering if officers went outside or sent another car to intercept / contact these individuals? Were they asked to exit the vehicle? Were vehicles checked?

(From recap on page 1)

• 10/15/18 02:08:50 - responding officer advised individuals driving by multiple times were asked to leave. [22]

 

[bellyup]

DELETED

 

[not.a.muggle]

Has anyone seen follow-up on LE talking w/cars that were passing by the Closs house the night of the murder / abduction? I’m wondering if officers went outside or sent another car to intercept / contact these individuals? Were they asked to exit the vehicle? Were vehicles checked?

(From recap on page 1)

• 10/15/18 02:08:50 - responding officer advised individuals driving by multiple times were asked to leave. [22]

They were relatives, cousins I think. I'll look for the link...

ETA: I looked back through some of the threads and maybe that was speculation. I know we talked about it and I thought for sure we had info to back this up. I guess not, sorry.

 

[bellyup]

I've seen quite a few references to FBI involvement and I'm throwing something out there as a question / thought / information seeking.

As far as I can tell, FBI involvement in Jayme's case would be pretty limited. 1034 and 1035 of the federal criminal resource manual outline what FBI's juristiction is in missing persons cases.
(1035. FBI Assistance in Missing Persons Cases)
(1034. Kidnapping—Federal Jurisdiction)

Unless I'm understanding incorrectly, in Jayme's case the FBI would have determined if her disappearance met the terms of their involvement (1 -6 of 1034) and seemingly found that it did not. Basically that Jayme is not tender age (under 12) and wasn't likely involved in some sort of interstate kidnapping or trafficking.

Once that was determined by the FBI, their involvement would be limited to what Fitzgerald requests which is outlined in 1035. Which includes facilities of identification and laboratories available to the FBI that may not be to local LE.

The impression that the FBI is (or was) involved in this case is what I am questioning and seeking more information on. I think the assumption is that FBI comes in and gets involved in every aspect of the case, investigation, evidence, etc. and I don't think that's accurate.

Based on everything I have found once it's determined that a kidnapping doesn't meet federal jurisdiction - FBI involvement is limited to providing forensics & identification (UPON REQUEST of local LE) that small police forces don't have access to.

Am I way off ?

 

[SkipperKey3]

Yes, I also questioned why it would be charging in the kitchen . . . Unless 1) they used a multi-phone charging system or Unless 2) Parents had strict rules. Phones are appendages to kids.

Or 3) Jayme put it on to charge earlier in the evening when she was out there (maybe watching TV or something) rather than in her room and just left it there to charge. I don't think we can read too much into the fact that her phone was in the kitchen.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I've seen quite a few references to FBI involvement and I'm throwing something out there as a question / thought / information seeking.

As far as I can tell, FBI involvement in Jayme's case would be pretty limited. 1034 and 1035 of the federal criminal resource manual outline what FBI's juristiction is in missing persons cases.
(1035. FBI Assistance in Missing Persons Cases)
(1034. Kidnapping—Federal Jurisdiction)

Unless I'm understanding incorrectly, in Jayme's case the FBI would have determined if her disappearance met the terms of their involvement (1 -6 of 1034) and seemingly found that it did not. Basically that Jayme is not tender age (under 12) and wasn't likely involved in some sort of interstate kidnapping or trafficking.

Once that was determined by the FBI, their involvement would be limited to what Fitzgerald requests which is outlined in 1035. Which includes facilities of identification and laboratories available to the FBI that may not be to local LE.

The impression that the FBI is (or was) involved in this case is what I am questioning and seeking more information on. I think the assumption is that FBI comes in and gets involved in every aspect of the case, investigation, evidence, etc. and I don't think that's accurate.

Based on everything I have found once it's determined that a kidnapping doesn't meet federal jurisdiction - FBI involvement is limited to providing forensics & identification (UPON REQUEST of local LE) that small police forces don't have access to.

Am I way off ?

I also was intrigued on how the FBI could be involved. I was actually surprised that they were not only involved but they were called 3 hours into the case. Anyways, I stopped trying to figure it out because I came down to the conclusion that it was forensics . Then someone I know stated that if it was only forensics then why is Jayme on the top of the FBI missing persons list? So I was back to square one and just chucked it to the fact that there are just t00 many things about this case that don't make sense, that we don't know and we may never know.