AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[Hatfield]

I've seen quite a few references to FBI involvement and I'm throwing something out there as a question / thought / information seeking.

As far as I can tell, FBI involvement in Jayme's case would be pretty limited. 1034 and 1035 of the federal criminal resource manual outline what FBI's juristiction is in missing persons cases.
(1035. FBI Assistance in Missing Persons Cases)
(1034. Kidnapping—Federal Jurisdiction)

Unless I'm understanding incorrectly, in Jayme's case the FBI would have determined if her disappearance met the terms of their involvement (1 -6 of 1034) and seemingly found that it did not. Basically that Jayme is not tender age (under 12) and wasn't likely involved in some sort of interstate kidnapping or trafficking.

Once that was determined by the FBI, their involvement would be limited to what Fitzgerald requests which is outlined in 1035. Which includes facilities of identification and laboratories available to the FBI that may not be to local LE.

The impression that the FBI is (or was) involved in this case is what I am questioning and seeking more information on. I think the assumption is that FBI comes in and gets involved in every aspect of the case, investigation, evidence, etc. and I don't think that's accurate.

Based on everything I have found once it's determined that a kidnapping doesn't meet federal jurisdiction - FBI involvement is limited to providing forensics & identification (UPON REQUEST of local LE) that small police forces don't have access to.

Am I way off ?

Its a good question and I really dont know. I read the rules and am still confused. I had always assumed that FBI can get involved when a crime crosses state lines.

Im not sure after reading that if that is true anymore. Of course if LE does not even know if she was taken out of state yet then that would not necessarily apply anyway right now until proven the perp(s) left the state with her.

Its a good question and I will let others try to help answer. I do think you are right about the part that states can ask for their assistance with certain things regardless if they are officially assigned to the case and they can assist local LE if they accept to do that for them.

 

[mks762]

JMO
That is a possible theory for sure. My personal theory right now is similar but starts like this.

Just guessing that she may have been conversing with someone she thought was her friend either over the internet from afar or even locally. And she began sharing stuff, you know how kids can sometimes get at her age and they begin to be a little resentful about how their parents are controlling their lives (as the parents should to keep their kids out of trouble). But this other "friend" takes it all wrong and thinks in his mind that she is basically a prisoner in her own home by mean parents and that she needs "saving" and by golly he is the one that is going to save her. So he comes in guns a blazing and takes out both parents and whisks her away. He thinks she will be happy but she was probably horrified and couldnt believe the monster that just entered the home.

Anyway just been my theory since the beginning. Its a little similar to your theory in that by taking out the parents it eliminates them from her ever thinking they can be looking for her and the perp can begin his brainwashing of their new life together.

I may be way off base.

Always find your insight to be very helpful. Wishful thinking I know but oh how I wish we knew more about Jayme. We really don't know a whole lot do we?? Did she play video games? Computer games? Games on her phone? What chatting apps did she use?? I know that if there was some creep she had been texting he'd be caught by now obviously but what if there was someone she talked to via headsets on a video game? I wonder how much those interactions are tracked. I'm only 30 years old but I may as well be 90 when it comes to understanding video games and cell phone apps "kids these days" are using to communicate with each other- I know nothing

 

[Hatfield]

Always find your insight to be very helpful. Wishful thinking I know but oh how I wish we knew more about Jayme. We really don't know a whole lot do we?? Did she play video games? Computer games? Games on her phone? What chatting apps did she use?? I know that if there was some creep she had been texting he'd be caught by now obviously but what if there was someone she talked to via headsets on a video game? I wonder how much those interactions are tracked. I'm only 30 years old but I may as well be 90 when it comes to understanding video games and cell phone apps "kids these days" are using to communicate with each other- I know nothing

Im right there with you about not knowing much about all the different ways people can communicate these days on certain games and apps.

I actually tried a simple innocent multi-player game on my Directv satellite system and tried to play Chess and "Battleship" with random people that join the games. It scared me enough where I dont even attempt it anymore. Its just too creepy not knowing who the other player(s) are. Because even on those simple games there was a text feature where I started to get messages from the other players during the game.

 

[Jazzy5980]

I've seen quite a few references to FBI involvement and I'm throwing something out there as a question / thought / information seeking.

As far as I can tell, FBI involvement in Jayme's case would be pretty limited. 1034 and 1035 of the federal criminal resource manual outline what FBI's juristiction is in missing persons cases.
(1035. FBI Assistance in Missing Persons Cases)
(1034. Kidnapping—Federal Jurisdiction)

Unless I'm understanding incorrectly, in Jayme's case the FBI would have determined if her disappearance met the terms of their involvement (1 -6 of 1034) and seemingly found that it did not. Basically that Jayme is not tender age (under 12) and wasn't likely involved in some sort of interstate kidnapping or trafficking.

Once that was determined by the FBI, their involvement would be limited to what Fitzgerald requests which is outlined in 1035. Which includes facilities of identification and laboratories available to the FBI that may not be to local LE.

The impression that the FBI is (or was) involved in this case is what I am questioning and seeking more information on. I think the assumption is that FBI comes in and gets involved in every aspect of the case, investigation, evidence, etc. and I don't think that's accurate.

Based on everything I have found once it's determined that a kidnapping doesn't meet federal jurisdiction - FBI involvement is limited to providing forensics & identification (UPON REQUEST of local LE) that small police forces don't have access to.

Am I way off ?

In order to ascertain full extent of FBI jurisdiction the statute along with all applicable rules and regulations would have to be examined. The FBI is also deeply involved in Hania Aguilera’s case.

Body Found in Robeson County Preliminarily Identified as Missing Lumberton Teen

 

[l84tea2]

Good point ...That’s always hurt my head also. 2 shots. Seconds apart and the second shot is louder ... what ... so first shot gun pointed in house or 1 step in house. 2nd is outside house 1 step. As if Denise trying to move towards gunman...

I could see both going towards door first drops James. While Denise dials 911 moves towards door boom second shot.. causing phone to be tossed as call goes through ?? Denise bolts injured to bathroom..

Or jayme dials 911 as perp shoots maybe she drops phone as she bolts out of house...

Truly dunno.., but think your right. 2 shots 1/2 in succession.. if those 2 are it... that’s odd.. guessing they’ve known sense 24 hours in if only 2 shots

Did they ever confirm the manner of death for both J and D? Maybe D wasn’t shot?

 

[Rubiconbob]

Did they ever confirm the manner of death for both J and D? Maybe D wasn’t shot?

Both confirmed dead from gunshots..
Doesn’t mean one wasn’t shot and ran to bathroom and expired.

 

[Trino]

IMO, I don’t think she grabbed anything...still in her night clothes and immediately taken.

But we can only "think" because nothing about this has been made public.

 

[l84tea2]

Both confirmed dead from gunshots..
Doesn’t mean one wasn’t shot and ran to bathroom and expired.

So if there were only 2 shots. The shooter must have known what he was doing and shot to kill. Since both were dead when the LE arrived.

 

[Trino]

I've seen quite a few references to FBI involvement and I'm throwing something out there as a question / thought / information seeking.

As far as I can tell, FBI involvement in Jayme's case would be pretty limited. 1034 and 1035 of the federal criminal resource manual outline what FBI's juristiction is in missing persons cases.
(1035. FBI Assistance in Missing Persons Cases)
(1034. Kidnapping—Federal Jurisdiction)

Unless I'm understanding incorrectly, in Jayme's case the FBI would have determined if her disappearance met the terms of their involvement (1 -6 of 1034) and seemingly found that it did not. Basically that Jayme is not tender age (under 12) and wasn't likely involved in some sort of interstate kidnapping or trafficking.

Once that was determined by the FBI, their involvement would be limited to what Fitzgerald requests which is outlined in 1035. Which includes facilities of identification and laboratories available to the FBI that may not be to local LE.

The impression that the FBI is (or was) involved in this case is what I am questioning and seeking more information on. I think the assumption is that FBI comes in and gets involved in every aspect of the case, investigation, evidence, etc. and I don't think that's accurate.

Based on everything I have found once it's determined that a kidnapping doesn't meet federal jurisdiction - FBI involvement is limited to providing forensics & identification (UPON REQUEST of local LE) that small police forces don't have access to.

FBI is always involved if a kidnapper crosses state lines. In this case there is no proof of that so the FBI left.

Am I way off ?

 

[bellyup]

I also was intrigued on how the FBI could be involved. I was actually surprised that they were not only involved but they were called 3 hours into the case. Anyways, I stopped trying to figure it out because I came down to the conclusion that it was forensics . Then someone I know stated that if it was only forensics then why is Jayme on the top of the FBI missing persons list? So I was back to square one and just chucked it to the fact that there are just t00 many things about this case that don't make sense, that we don't know and we may never know.

I think the reason she's on the lists is because of the second part of 1035 which states "Information pertaining to certain categories of missing persons, including missing children, may be entered into the missing person file of the FBI operated National Crime Information Center (NCIC) by the local law enforcement agencies"

 

[Rubiconbob]

So if there were only 2 shots. The shooter must have known what he was doing and shot to kill. Since both were dead when the LE arrived.

U could make that argument.. if gunmen is hunter or ex military likely knows enough already. Ar 15 rifle u hit head or center chest...not much time if not instantly over..

With Denise Likely 911 called right after both shots ... police there in 4 minutes.. so
She likely took bad shot..and didn’t last 2/3 minutes... right weapon can make fool look knowledgeable and brutal. AR15 is 0 kickback tap tap gun... still lean towards that or shotgun both easy for this piece of garbage to kill 2 people 2 to 10 feet away.

 

[bellyup]

In order to ascertain full extent of FBI jurisdiction the statute along with all applicable rules and regulations would have to be examined. The FBI is also deeply involved in Hania Aguilera’s case.

Body Found in Robeson County Preliminarily Identified as Missing Lumberton Teen

I read all the applicable statues, rules and regulations.

I'm just trying to dispel assertions that the FBI would have done this or that in Jayme's case. I don't think FBI involvement with Jayme's disappearance is what people think it is. We know they are no longer in Barron.

Especially based on Fitzgerald's comments to media and in interviews
"If they get a credible lead, he said more state and federal resources will be available at a moments notice."
And comments that FBI are the ones analyzing the 80 hours of video.
"At the FBI headquarters in Milwaukee, a team of video specialists is piecing together more than 80 pieces of surveillance footage."

I'm not familiar with Hania Aguilar's case to comment but it could be that the LE involved has requested their local FBI be "deeply involved".

 

[SJ16321]

JMO
That is a possible theory for sure. My personal theory right now is similar but starts like this.

Just guessing that she may have been conversing with someone she thought was her friend either over the internet from afar or even locally. And she began sharing stuff, you know how kids can sometimes get at her age and they begin to be a little resentful about how their parents are controlling their lives (as the parents should to keep their kids out of trouble). But this other "friend" takes it all wrong and thinks in his mind that she is basically a prisoner in her own home by mean parents and that she needs "saving" and by golly he is the one that is going to save her. So he comes in guns a blazing and takes out both parents and whisks her away. He thinks she will be happy but she was probably horrified and couldnt believe the monster that just entered the home.

Anyway just been my theory since the beginning. Its a little similar to your theory in that by taking out the parents it eliminates them from her ever thinking they can be looking for her and the perp can begin his brainwashing of their new life together.

I may be way off base.

I could definitely buy that as a scenario. We all know how melodramatic teenagers can be, if you don't let them do what they want then you're "ruining their life".

I know as a teenager I probably made my parents sound awful to my friends with the way I moaned about them and their decisions, looking back now I can see they were decent and doing the right thing.

 

[Mistermagoo]

So if there were only 2 shots. The shooter must have known what he was doing and shot to kill. Since both were dead when the LE arrived.

I highly doubt it was only 2 shots

 

[doktor57]

I highly doubt it was only 2 shots

The neighbors reported only two shots. Two shots, at night, in a combat situation. Two fatalities. I'm thinking .12 gauge.

 

[Mistermagoo]

The neighbors reported only two shots. Two shots, at night, in a combat situation. Two fatalities. I'm thinking .12 gauge.

Besides the fact that the Sheriff thinks the perps were in and out and he doesn't seem to be paying too much credence to the neighbors accounts, the 911 log says multiple rounds spent before they even came across a second victim.

 

[SkipperKey3]

The neighbors reported only two shots. Two shots, at night, in a combat situation. Two fatalities. I'm thinking .12 gauge.

But I thought I read that they reported that the door itself had multiple gunshot holes... or something like that. So it would make sense if the shots to the door, when breaking in, were heard, but subsequent shots inside were not heard. The door doesn't face the neighbors and they are quite a distance away, so it is quite possible that they just didn't hear the shots inside, however many there may have been. I can't remember now where I read that the door had evidence of multiple gunshots though.

 

[Ms Buffyton]

Just checking in to see if there was any new information on Jayme's case. Again, looks like she has just disappeared into thin air. I just read that the body of the 13 year old from NC was found. I remember hearing about that case, but they really did not cover it in the news where I live. I do miss Nancy Grace because she gave a voice for the missing children and kept their names out in the public. It never ceases to amaze me on how evil people can be. They take a life out and feel nothing!! Sorry, I needed to vent here. Hoping for some news on Jayme.

 

[Irmese]

Unless the responders had lights flashing etc, I doubt it. Shots fired is a different response, imo. I would imagine at nearly 1am any LE working in the area would have been free to respond...not much else going on and back-up is always welcome but jmo.

I agree. I'd like to know if LE arrived with lights and sirens. I don't think they did, because the neighbor was outside about 1:00 and didn't see or hear anything. I don't know if trees or a hill blocks the view from the neighbors'.

 

[Irmese]

my kids aren't allowed electronics in their rooms. they are 11 and 14. they never been in trouble with them, just our family rule. I am sure I am not the only family with rules like that.
we have a charging station in the kitchen for phones, tablets and chromebooks

My kids were allowed a TV in their room and we only had antenna, so they felt they suffered a lot because I wouldn't allow them t watch the Simpsons.
They couldn't have video game consoles in their rooms
and
the only computer was in the dining room, so zero privacy. I was lucky, though. Not many teenagers had cell phones. I worked in IT and didn't feel they needed to be using electronics all day. They're pretty strict on their kids, too.