AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[IceIce9]

Questions for those who are placing importance on the first impression of suicide-

How are you seeing this factor into Jayme’s disappearance?

Are you possibly thinking it was a murder/suicide ?

If so, where is the gun?

Do you think it was possibly a murder/suicide and Jayme picked up the gun and ran away?

Do you think there is a possibility that LE was either wrong about the suicide vs murder, or is lying about it bring suicide for some reason?

What scenarios are you considering that involve suicide?

I am attempting to see this from all angles.

TIA.

 

[sbsuzilight]

VA - VA - Michael, 50, Mary, 36, & Jennifer Short, 9, Bassett, 15 Aug 2002

Thank you! I am going to do some more reading.

 

[JenniD]

I have my own theory as to why this horrendous crime occurred and have posted in previous threads-I have no theory as to how it went down and I do believe Jayme was abducted but there is one thing that bothers me about Sheriff Fitzgeralds response when asked about Jayme being abducted or involved in any way. In news articles the reporters have used the term "abducted" but I have never seen or heard the sheriff use that term. When asked he seems to get a little uncomfortable and says "Jayme is 13 years old and she is endangered".
Is there a legal reason he doesn't specifically say abducted?
I DO NOT think Jayme is involved other than to be a victim but don't understand his response
Would love to hear other WS take on this

 

[DocBrew]

I have my own theory as to why this horrendous crime occurred and have posted in previous threads-I have no theory as to how it went down and I do believe Jayme was abducted but there is one thing that bothers me about Sheriff Fitzgeralds response when asked about Jayme being abducted or involved in any way. In news articles the reporters have used the term "abducted" but I have never seen or heard the sheriff use that term. When asked he seems to get a little uncomfortable and says "Jayme is 13 years old and she is endangered".
Is there a legal reason he doesn't specially say abducted?
I DO NOT think Jayme is involved other than to be a victim but don't understand his response
Would love to hear other WS take on this

She could've been involved in the sense that she was perhaps groomed by the perpetrator(s), which would satisfy the "endangered" descriptor while also falling short of "abducted". Would also still imply that she is a victim.

JMO.

 

[JenniD]

She could've been involved in the sense that she was perhaps groomed by the perpetrator(s), which would satisfy the "endangered" descriptor while also falling short of "abducted". Would also still imply that she is a victim.

JMO.

Thanks.

 

[Jazzy5980]

Questions for those who are placing importance on the first impression of suicide-

How are you seeing this factor into Jayme’s disappearance?

Are you possibly thinking it was a murder/suicide ?

If so, where is the gun?

Do you think it was possibly a murder/suicide and Jayme picked up the gun and ran away?

Do you think there is a possibility that LE was either wrong about the suicide vs murder, or is lying about it bring suicide for some reason?

What scenarios are you considering that involve suicide?

I am attempting to see this from all angles.

TIA.

Excellent questions.

 

[KLM6]

In case anyone else has suddenly become a Chris Kroeze fan, he was just advanced to the top 10. I do like him, but what I like most is the national media attention Jayme is getting on his behalf! If at all possible, I hope it helps to bring her home.

 

[mks762]

Questions for those who are placing importance on the first impression of suicide-

How are you seeing this factor into Jayme’s disappearance?

Are you possibly thinking it was a murder/suicide ?

If so, where is the gun?

Do you think it was possibly a murder/suicide and Jayme picked up the gun and ran away?

Do you think there is a possibility that LE was either wrong about the suicide vs murder, or is lying about it bring suicide for some reason?

What scenarios are you considering that involve suicide?

I am attempting to see this from all angles.

TIA.

Ahh I’ve been waiting for this. No I do NOT think this was a murder suicide nor do I think there’s a police cover up (from someone else’s post). I don’t know what to think of it but we know or at least I think most of us believe it wasn’t a suicide so what made them think it was a suicide? The call log is one of the VERY few things we do have so I think every word needs to continue to be looked at and analyzed and questioned. We have no new information. I think it’ll tell us about the crime scene. What state was James found in? Shotgun injury to the head?? That would’ve been very loud. If anyone was asleep they would not be after that. I’ve said before many many threads back that I think we can deduce that James was shot in the head, probably just once, based on the arriving officer calling it a suicide.
I will say it again- I do not think James committed suicide nor do I think there’s something the police are covering up or whatever it was that another poster questioned. If he was shot once in the head that makes me think he’s the first one shot as he comes to answer the door. Which also means JC and abductor(s) would almost certainly have to go out the side door since James was laying at the front door. This is a lot of finagling for a perp(s) to do in 4 minutes if they’ve never been to the house before. Idk now I’m going off on a tangent.
I just think it’s something concrete that we have and should keep in mind. The arriving officer called it a possible suicide. Why was that? Sorry for the long post!!!!

 

[gngr~snap]

In the US if a 911 call is made and there’s no response or all they hear is a commotion; chances are really high that they are dispatching an officer to look into it.

You wouldn’t need a scanner to believe that police were on their way at the moment you knew a 911 call had been made. I’m guessing either the perp saw Denise make the call, caught Jayme making the call, or saw the phone laying there lit up and then saw it had connected to 911.

As I'm reading this, I'm thinking...
Did the perp have knowledge that a 911 call, made with no response from the caller, would result in law enforcement's rapid response being dispatched immediately!!!
This begs the question:
What type of perps would have this knowledge? It may very well be a part of how a profile for said perp can be made.
I'm hoping that is a good thing!
Then again maybe everyone is already aware of of this being "routine".
Moo

MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

I found it odd that someone laying in the front doorway with the door open would be first considered a possible suicide.

I don't believe the location of the body would be the reason suicide was initially suspected.
It would be the manner in which the victim was shot.
I believe most suicide by a firearm are done in similar ways.
*Sorry to be graphic*
Temple, under chin, barrell in open mouth through the back or top of head...
The initial suicide comment tells me that he was not shot through the door. This was a full contact shot with tattooing.
No one would suspect a suicide immediately if it was clear that victim was 2-3 feet away at the time or if the entrance woungwas from behind.
It was only after discovering no weapon at the scene that it appeared to be a murderer.
BUT, a young woman in my county was found dead in her kitchen of a self inflicted gun shot wound with no weapon at the scene. Apparently she had gun shot residue and the fact that someone stole the gun before police arrived, didn't change it to homicide. Coroner said suicide.
Strange but true!


JMO

 

[Jcravenc1]

Thank you! I am going to do some more reading.

It is way too similar to the Short family case.

 

[bellyup]

Which also means JC and abductor(s) would almost certainly have to go out the side door since James was laying at the front door. This is a lot of finagling for a perp(s) to do in 4 minutes if they’ve never been to the house before.

I posted a proposed layout yesterday based on photos of the Closs home on FB and homes in the Barron area with nearly exact exteriors in which the perp would have had the choice at the front door to go left or right with a circular layout. If James was shot to one side of the door, the perp could have easily gone the other way and came back that same way. Totally avoiding any need to walk through blood from shooting James.

 

[1987]

I posted a proposed layout yesterday based on photos of the Closs home on FB and homes in the Barron area with nearly exact exteriors in which the perp would have had the choice at the front door to go left or right with a circular layout. If James was shot to one side of the door, the perp could have easily gone the other way and came back that same way. Totally avoiding any need to walk through blood from shooting James.

when you posted the lay out and that cabinet just in the middle I didn't think it all added up. then I watched the video where the chair is being carried out and can see inside door. the men in the white suits are clearly walking in each direction past that cabinet so I think your lay out is close. that cabinet may be a built in and not a free standing furniture. moo

 

[Jethro4WS]

The call log is based on the 911 call and prior to any officer arriving on scene. The determination of suicide, murder or anything else is done by the investigators and not the officers. My info was told to me by LE. Guess we need someone in LE to explain how the Call Log works. I sure didn't know until I talked to them.

I swear this is the 50th time I have had to point this out and I can't let stuff like this go because it only ends up introducing confusion into something that is really quite clear.

See page 7 of the call log. The TYPE of call is given as the units are dispatched. For the first several entries you will see in the third column "911 Hang Up (dispatched)".

At the bottom of page 3 you see that units 317, 325, and 329 were the units sent for this call - the "advised 317, 325, 329" part. If you look on page 7 you will see these units dispatched - 325, 329, and 317 in that order. The entries for those are all 911 Hang Up. (dispatched)

If you look at Page 4 the 1:03am entry is where Unit 329 advised of a possible suicide. This is that officer telling dispatch not the other way around.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

If you continue down on page 7 eventually you will see Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched). What that means is that the call was categorized as a 911 Hang Up at the very beginning.

The actual change of the TYPE to Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched) didn't actually happen until sometime after unit 317 requested the Emergency Response Team (ERT) at 1:06 am. We can know that because there were units were dispatched as 911 Hang Up. Including the ambulance (501) and Sheriff (301) among others (656, 4100, 4103, 4104, 4007). The first unit dispatched with the call type Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched) did not occur until 1:22 am.

 

[Lillymac]

I swear this is the 50th time I have had to point this out and I can't let stuff like this go because it only ends up introducing confusion into something that is really quite clear.

See page 7 of the call log. The TYPE of call is given as the units are dispatched. For the first several entries you will see in the third column "911 Hang Up (dispatched)".

At the bottom of page 3 you see that units 317, 325, and 329 were the units sent for this call - the "advised 317, 325, 329" part. If you look on page 7 you will see these units dispatched - 325, 329, and 317 in that order. The entries for those are all 911 Hang Up. (dispatched)

If you look at Page 4 the 1:03am entry is where Unit 329 advised of a possible suicide. This is that officer telling dispatch not the other way around.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

If you continue down on page 7 eventually you will see Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched). What that means is that the call was categorized as a 911 Hang Up at the very beginning.

The actual change of the TYPE to Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched) didn't actually happen until sometime after unit 317 requested the Emergency Response Team (ERT) at 1:06 am. We can know that because there were units were dispatched as 911 Hang Up. Including the ambulance (501) and Sheriff (301) among others (656, 4100, 4103, 4104, 4007). The first unit dispatched with the call type Suicidal Person / Attempted Suicide (dispatched) did not occur until 1:22 am.

Let's just say that my information was given to me by a lieutenant with the Dallas TX police force and this is SOP for this city. It appears that it is not SOP for Barron County WI. And that's fine.
Now I'm moving on to Lumberton where a body has been found. TY

 

[photographer4]

As I'm reading this, I'm thinking...
Did the perp have knowledge that a 911 call, made with no response from the caller, would result in law enforcement's rapid response being dispatched immediately!!!
This begs the question:
What type of perps would have this knowledge? It may very well be a part of how a profile for said perp can be made.
I'm hoping that is a good thing!
Then again maybe everyone is already aware of of this being "routine".
Moo

MOO

They teach this to kindergarten kids locally. Seriously. Isn’t it pretty common knowledge that if someone calls 911 and hangs up, LE is gonna snow up and pretty quickly at that? Then again, common knowledge isn’t very common....

 

[photographer4]

I don't believe the location of the body would be the reason suicide was initially suspected.
It would be the manner in which the victim was shot.
I believe most suicide by a firearm are done in similar ways.
*Sorry to be graphic*
Temple, under chin, barrell in open mouth through the back or top of head...
The initial suicide comment tells me that he was not shot through the door. This was a full contact shot with tattooing.
No one would suspect a suicide immediately if it was clear that victim was 2-3 feet away at the time or if the entrance woungwas from behind.
It was only after discovering no weapon at the scene that it appeared to be a murderer.
BUT, a young woman in my county was found dead in her kitchen of a self inflicted gun shot wound with no weapon at the scene. Apparently she had gun shot residue and the fact that someone stole the gun before police arrived, didn't change it to homicide. Coroner said suicide.
Strange but true!


JMO

I’d agree it wasn’t location of the body. Why
Would someone shoot themselves / suicide in a front hall / front door area? I also believe it was the wound and blood spray / pooling around the body that led to officer advising of possible suicide.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I don't believe the location of the body would be the reason suicide was initially suspected.
It would be the manner in which the victim was shot.
I believe most suicide by a firearm are done in similar ways.
*Sorry to be graphic*
Temple, under chin, barrell in open mouth through the back or top of head...
The initial suicide comment tells me that he was not shot through the door. This was a full contact shot with tattooing.
No one would suspect a suicide immediately if it was clear that victim was 2-3 feet away at the time or if the entrance woungwas from behind.
It was only after discovering no weapon at the scene that it appeared to be a murderer.
BUT, a young woman in my county was found dead in her kitchen of a self inflicted gun shot wound with no weapon at the scene. Apparently she had gun shot residue and the fact that someone stole the gun before police arrived, didn't change it to homicide. Coroner said suicide.
Strange but true!


JMO

Ok. This all was clearly explained by a retired LE way back.

Things are hectic at the beginning of a 911 call. There are many moving pieces to getting everywhere they are supposed to be listening to a call and a hundred other things. Dispatch has to be enter something into that space on computer in order to get to the next item. ( keep in mind the 99 other things happening). It is dispatch who classified the call initially. And much of the time they are not correct. A few minutes later dispatch is given the correct info by the first responding officer. Dispatch enters the correction and the dispatch world is good again.

 

[doktor57]

Meanwhile, still no word on the remains found in Monroe county, WI. If the remains were skeletonized due to age, I would think that LE would announce that it was not Jayme. I wonder if the perp did not burn the corpse to destroy possible DNA evidence.

 

[Nemellotus]

Closed caskets. I think shots to the head for both parents.