AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[Oakland CA]

So, logically, either:
1) LE lied about knowing the killer only went 5 feet into the house
2) LE lied about not having any evidence aside from shell casings
3) They have an eyewitness (IMO, extremely unlikely to the 9th degree) or
4) The DM completely misquoted LE.
Those are the possibilities I came up with...can anyone think of any others?

Bloody footprints going five feet in from door and back out

 

[DutchTreat]

What if the call is placed at the very beginning? They hear someone kicking at the door, and call 911...police hear James getting shot, perps are yelling at Denise and Jayme--they see the phone and shoot Denise, grab Jayme and leave. That would give them a pretty precise timeline.

If they had yelling perps on tape wouldn't they have released that by now?
Or at least had family listen to that voice.

 

[bellyup]

From the Daily Mail article-

In fact there was no forensic evidence of any intruder at all.
The sheriff said: 'That's the frustrating part of it. We've had four different lab teams look at the scene before we released it. We were very strategic. When we discovered it was a major crime we sealed it off immediately.

This is discouraging to hear, and while he is probably being honest, it gives comfort to a killer. Maybe it is best unsaid, although he may have a reason for stating this that I/we are not aware of.

After this article I am semi-convinced that this is a tactic and may not be the truth.
Fitzgerald is trying to make the killer feel like they are "safe" so that they mess up. I can't come up with ANY other reason that he would be openly admitting they have had four labs look at the scene and that they have nothing.

 

[DutchTreat]

Bloody footprints going five feet in from door and back out

But than the perp would have left evidence, but LE keeps telling us the perp left nothing.

 

[IceIce9]

Bloody footprints going five feet in from door and back out

That is my #1 too.

Shoe size and/or brand would have been different than any family member wore.

 

[photographer4]

Bloody footprints going five feet in from door and back out

But nothing but the shell casings were left that we know of. :/

 

[CocoChanel]

Ok.
I would like to reiterate the permissible points I made in my heretofor previous-but-now-removed post about this case possibly involving someone local who had some sort of peripheral connection to the Closs family:

• surely...SURELY....ANY person within 6 degrees of separation (well maybe 3-4 degrees of separation) of the victims has been THOROUGHLY checked out and vetted by now, some 2 months from the time this terrible crime occurred, right?
• There were 200+ LE on this case at the start, including the CARD Team from the FBI. No resources seemed to be spared to investigate this major case when it happened.
• No POI or motive has been identified as a result of the initial all-encompassing investigation.
• 8 weeks after these murders and abduction we still don’t have a clue what in the world has happened.
• Why for God’s sake can’t the best of the best detectives IN THE WORLD solve this case AND FIND JAYME?!?!?!

I find myself wondering what those 200+ LE officers are doing now. Did they just pack up, go home, and leave the local and state officials on their own? Jayme is still missing! Somebody needs to DO SOMETHING TO FIND HER!

And that reminds me: same thing goes for poor Kyron!

 

[bellyup]

Or how they know someone only made it 5 feet in? Even if thats where they found Denise, how do they know thats where they stopped?

I just had a thought.
If the killer kicked in the front door ... then ran to the side door...
They would have had a clear shot on James answering the front door. If the patio door wasn't locked they could have opened it and shot him in the back. (may indicate they knew the patio would be unlocked, which I don't find unusual. I've had many patio doors that get messed up and won't lock)

I'm not positive where the bathroom is but there are a few scenarios from there that would be possible. Denise comes out and then tries to dart into the bathroom and is shot.

We know from the panty perv that Jayme's door was likely very close to that sliding side door. This leaves the perp barely entering the house at all. And LE would know it by trajectory and blood patterns.

It's the only way I can think of that LE would state so specifically that the killer never stepped more than 5 feet in the house.

 

[Oakland CA]

But than the perp would have left evidence, but LE keeps telling us the perp left nothing.

I hear you. Who knows what LE sees as evidence.

I'm amazed that LE doesn't deem bullets, bullet casings, blood....and possible footprints as evidence.

 

[bellyup]

It sounds like denise’s family wasn’t super connected to James. If so, why not? What’s the backstory there?

I noted this in the interview with James's family.
I'd have to re-listen to it but I'm not sure they mentioned Denise much (if at all).

 

[KLM6]

Something else thats weird to me is LE keeping the type of ammo a secret. The person clearly knows what type of weapon snd ammo they used. I would think that firearm is long gone by now. The only thing that I can think keeping this info quiet for is a potentisl false confession at some point, but why would that even be being considered? What reason is there to withhold weapon info?

 

[DutchTreat]

Or perp shoots James at the door, enters the house and shoots Denise who already dialed 911 which was unknown to the perp. Jayme slips outside while the perp is shooting Denise. And the perp goes after her and grabs her outside. And those sounds are on the 911 tape.

 

[GordianKnot]

- someone in the home was using their phone until the attack began? Someone in the house abruptly stopped texting or talking with someone and it hasn’t been released to us yet?
- someone was listening to music or watching tv and paused it when the commotion began?
- electronic door lock recorded time door was last locked or unlocked?
- someone was reading fb til this all started or some other website and the info was recorded on the router?
- a clock in the home was shot or fell off a wall and stopped when that happened?
- a parent or both had a watch on that stopped due to breaking when parents died or due to coming into contact with blood?
- someone was drinking water or something from one of those smart bottle things and it recorded the time of the last sip maybe close to the time of the 911 call? A minute or two before?
- jayme’s Phone may have been plugged in for the night by her or her parents right before this began?

(I get points for creativity even if I’m totally wrong!)

Photog4, indeed you do get ++++ bonus points for creativity! That is some great brainstorming activity right there!

While ITA with you that any of the examples you gave would help to contribute to some kind of timeline, it would be really hard to state that some of them would definitively establish the exact time the killer arrived on scene. For example, a person might have been talking/texting on the phone and/or watching a movie, but been interrupted or paused those activities for a number of reasons, i.e., felt the call of nature, someone in the house talking to them, the dog needing to go out, etc. A clock might have been shot off a wall at any point during the commission of the crime, not necessarily at its onset. If it stopped at the time it was shot, that would tell you the exact time a bullet hit the clock, but it would not tell you the exact time the killer arrived at the home.

A phone being plugged in would definitely help w/ narrowing a timeline if it was plugged in only moments before the 9-1-1 call was placed.

Smart bottle, Fitbit, etc., those would also be really good ways of tracking movements, heart rates, etc. Do we know if any of them has/had a Fitbit?

 

[sbsuzilight]

Footprints? That is the only thing I can think of. But he took Jayme without going any farther than that distance?

That’s what I was thinking. I would think Jayme would be running away or hiding, not right there to be grabbed.

 

[Ms Buffyton]

This case is as baffling as the Rhoden family murders in Ohio. I remember that case very well. Absolutely no evidence left at the scene and the murders were quick and fast. Now, after two years, LE just arrested a whole family for the murders! I re-read the Daily Mail article and it makes me think that LE knows more than they have released to the public. The way the door was kicked in and the quick and calculated shooting of Denise and James makes it appear to be personal. This is a very disturbing case and Jayme needs to be found soon!

 

[GordianKnot]

I really have thought from the start that Jayme’s voice must have been distinguishable during the call, since LE thought her to be home at the time.

The five feet inside the home is hard to figure out.

Ice, exactly. IMO, it's hard to figure because it isn't true...LE's playing head games with the killer. JMO.

 

[bellyup]

That’s what I was thinking. I would think Jayme would be running away or hiding, not right there to be grabbed.

I'm not sure of this.
People can react really unpredictably to traumatic situations.
Fight, flight, freeze or fawn.
There's an equal chance that Jayme did any of those (and her default personality may not be indicative of which one).

 

[sbsuzilight]

That what they would like the public to know right now.

If they want the public to know why is this in the Daily Mail?

 

[bellyup]

Ice, exactly. IMO, it's hard to figure because it isn't true...LE's playing head games with the killer. JMO.

This is the direction I am leaning as well.
You don't go from continually saying "We have absolutely nothing" to claiming very specific things (4 minutes, 5 feet in the house) that would require some sort of evidence to support if you have nothing to base this information on. Either you have supporting evidence of those things (which means, you have something) or you don't and you're making false claims to lull the perpetrator into thinking they are off the hook so that they will mess up.

 

[GordianKnot]

Bloody footprints going five feet in from door and back out

OCA, if they have bloody footprints, and they very well may, then LE lied about not having any forensic evidence.

IMO LE may be presenting a lot of misinformation in the press to keep the killer off kilter...and I personally have no problem with LE going full-frontal Pinocchio with what they put out to the public if it helps catch the evil creep who killed JC and DC.