GUILTY WI - Taylor Schabusiness, 24, dismembered man’s body, placed head in bucket, Green Bay, 2022 *Graphic*

[Snail-Overlord]

yeah.
exactly.
disturbed childhood, diagnosed with adhd..

I think it's a myth that all people have choices.
they simply do not.
A choice demands a level playing field, I doubt she ever got that.
her addiction is the least of her problems, addiction can be treated.
It's her underlying broken psyche that concerns me.

Addicts medicate trauma/
If the trauma goes untreated its a catch 22.

treat the trauma first..

It's also the most natural thing in the world for an addict to reach for whatever painkiller is available because they are in real pain, psychic, mental, psychological and emotional.
(have done a lot of work in this are over the years so my views are possibly challenging for others)
The death penalty would have been kinder in my view and I consider it to be barbaric, in most though not all cases.

I disagree with the death penalty in general, but I do agree with you on everything else, including the notion of whether or not we have choices. It’s hard to really think deeply about it and what kind of implications it has for the criminal justice system. I personally think she knew what she was doing was wrong. But whether or not she (or anyone else) had a real choice in the matter is a different question entirely, IMO outside of what a court of law can easily determine. In many ways, we are really just witnesses to our own actions and rely on impulse control to keep us in check. This woman clearly has little to no impulse control. In either case, she is dangerous, and I think she should be locked up for that. The question of whether we should actually lock people up for punishment though is harder to answer for me, because I do think people can be rehabilitated. I’m just not sure she can be rehabilitated at this point.

Either way, I really hope Taylor gets what psychiatric help she needs in prison. I think she deserves access to therapy. It’s hard for me to view her behavior as purely theatrics; IMO, if someone is throwing chairs at people, there’s more going on there than just attention seeking or theatrics. In my personal opinion, her mental health seems to have spiraled since she’s been incarcerated, which really isn’t surprising.

I stayed in a mental hospital for 2 months as a teenager, and Taylor’s behavior reminds me of the way that a lot of the other teens I met would behave. I’ll be honest, when I heard she had previously been hospitalized as a teenager when this case first broke, I felt a lot of sympathy towards her, because I know what it’s like to be there, and I’m also roughly the same age as Taylor. Kids don’t go to the mental hospital unless they are really and truly suffering, so she clearly has been suffering for quite a long time. A huge part of me is really sad that the system failed her; it’s far easier to rehabilitate a teenager than an adult. She seems emotionally immature; stunted, almost, like her mind is stuck in her teenage years, and that could easily be a result of the trauma she’s gone through.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

yeah.
exactly.
disturbed childhood, diagnosed with adhd..

I think it's a myth that all people have choices.
they simply do not.
A choice demands a level playing field, I doubt she ever got that.
her addiction is the least of her problems, addiction can be treated.
It's her underlying broken psyche that concerns me.

Addicts medicate trauma/
If the trauma goes untreated its a catch 22.

treat the trauma first..

It's also the most natural thing in the world for an addict to reach for whatever painkiller is available because they are in real pain, psychic, mental, psychological and emotional.
(have done a lot of work in this are over the years so my views are possibly challenging for others)
The death penalty would have been kinder in my view and I consider it to be barbaric, in most though not all cases.

Correct...Right now addiction is the least of her worries. However, prior to the murder - addiction was one of her problems. Addiction can only be treated if the addict is willing to be treated. Once an addict - always an addict, even after treatment. Right?

I don’t think she was properly diagnosed correctly; it’s a complex issue/disease (dis-ease with one-self) and there’s stigma still attached to mental health.

I don’t agree with the death penalty, it is barbaric, and what happened to Shad was too. I hope she receives treatment while incarcerated. Perhaps structure setting will be helpful and something needed- she may surprise people. She is a lost soul. What a terrible feeling to have. It does hurt. I imagine Shad's family is hurt too and Shad's sister no longer has a brother.

As a young girl something horrible may have happened to her… did she create another personality because of trauma at a very young age? Did she have to play the role of mother growing up? I could ask a lot of questions, but will never get answers. Taylor may not even recall those memories, were they blocked out of her mind? The brain has the capability to protect from harm… believe it or not - creating another personality is one way; when you’ve suffered extreme trauma. She may not remember any childhood abuse.

What was going on with Taylor at age 14 when she attempted suicide?

When she killed Shad was all her anger finally coming out? Was anger the trigger? Angry about how life was turning out for her? Resentment? For years did she have to suppress her voice ... be submissive? No voice. A mute, in a way? At the trial she appeared to have an inability to speak.

I saw the little girl/daddy courtroom event different than others.

All of this is Speculation. Moo. Amateur opinion.

 

[arielilane]

Agree, her actions speak of adolescent behavior … she did not psychological mature for whatever reasons… suspect childhood trauma? Phase 2: Jurors determined Taylor responsible for the crime, and wasn’t mentally ill at the time she killed and dismembered Shad.

Agreed, with verdict (both) and regards to 2nd verdict, Taylor was her own worst enemy when she claimed mental health illness. After the actual crime, she advised in detail to LE what she did to Shad, that she liked it, and why she chose to dismember the body. She took accountability; however, as we see in many cases, when defense comes aboard explains to client their constitutional rights, etc and plea provided is usually not guilty, etc.

It’s too bad she didn’t seek help before the murder, it sound like she was doing okay at her job at that time. Problems with co-workers can be difficult to handle. Additionally, I regret stating in an earlier post she was a pathological lair because I had nothing to base my opinion on that comment.

Speculation. Moo. Amateur opinion.

 

[arielilane]

Taylor Schabusiness' Defense Attorney Speaks to Court TV​

#CourtTV’s own Chanley Painter spoke with #TaylorSchabusiness’ Defense attorney, Chistopher Froelich. Froelich speaks on Schabusiness’ reaction to the #guilty verdict and the jury’s reaction to the defense’s claim that Schabusiness was mentally ill during the murder. Schabusiness was ultimately found not mentally ill.

 

[arielilane]

Recap of defense attorney speaks to Court tv:

Attorney: She didn’t take notes, but she interacted with me. She has many problems mental health challenges … she has had a difficult life… drug addiction issues… underlying deep-seated mental health problems. Family origin issues too. Some abuse she was involved in an abusive marriage. Many challenges that will have to be sorted through - She was hit in the head by her husband - we look forward to sentencing in September to address some of these issues. Most graphic and complex trial he’s every had in 33 year career as a counsel.

Courttv’s Chanley asked: What’s next for Taylor: Attorney response: Court will order a pre-sentence investigation report, background, family history, drug usage, her child, prior record, prior things and at the end of the report will have recommendations the department of corrections feel might be appropriate for judge to know about. The court will relay on what defense and the prosecution have to recommend. It is possible defense witnesses but will be called.

Very important question at the end asked by Courttv’s Chanley which did not get answered due to timing.

Moo

 

[RickshawFan]

Phase 2: Jurors determined Taylor responsible for the crime, and wasn’t mentally ill at the time she killed and dismembered Shad.

Snipped.

IMO the jurors weren't tasked with determining if TS was mentally ill. Many folks on trial are! And both sides pretty much agree she's mentally ill. But the job of the jury was more to rule on whether she wasn't capable of making rational decisions at the time of the crime due to a mental incapacity not under her control or through her decisionmaking.

 

[kittythehare]

Snipped.

IMO the jurors weren't tasked with determining if TS was mentally ill. Many folks on trial are! And both sides pretty much agree she's mentally ill. But the job of the jury was more to rule on whether she wasn't capable of making rational decisions at the time of the crime due to a mental incapacity not under her control or through her decisionmaking.

Like there is rationality involved in dismembering as opposed to getting the hell out of there fast..
Crazy.

 

[Emilie D]

Like there is rationality involved in dismembering as opposed to getting the hell out of there fast..
Crazy.

IMO there is. Dismembering allows you to more easily conceal parts and pieces in everyday items like a crockpot box or a bag rather than carrying a full sized corpse. Then there is also the possibility he was too heavy for her to carry. She knew leaving him there would get her caught sooner and she was trying to cover it up. She stated that in her interview with the cops. The only reason she was caught as soon as she was was because she forgot the bucket.

 

[shotgun09]

Another statement made by TS to LE was regarding the basement was " so open". It bothered her. ( Rationalizing ) By dismembering the body, removing some of it in her van, (forgetting the head in the bucket aside)....she did leave the 'open' basement looking quite normal....to a casual observer.

Initial LE were only concerned with the bucket situation, as a cursory glance through the basement did not register anything else. There was no bloody scene, upon a quick glance.

 

[Emilie D]

Another statement made by TS to LE was regarding the basement was " so open". It bothered her. ( Rationalizing ) By dismembering the body, removing some of it in her van, (forgetting the head in the bucket aside)....she did leave the 'open' basement looking quite normal....to a casual observer.

Initial LE were only concerned with the bucket situation, as a cursory glance through the basement did not register anything else. There was no bloody scene, upon a quick glance.

Well yeah it was ultra rational to drain his blood into buckets and pour it down the basement drain. She did this to prevent a mess. She was cleaning up after herself. Again, all rational things to do. Very gross to a normal person but still a rational train of thought for someone trying to get away with murder. MOO

 

[Snail-Overlord]

She was hit in the head by her husband

snipped. THAT is big. Blows to the head are no joke; even something as mild as a concussion can have long-lasting effects. Is it possible she suffered a head injury? I know this is just pure speculation, but it made me wonder, because people who have suffered a TBI, especially any damage to the frontal lobe, often struggle with anger and impulse control as a result.

 

[Snail-Overlord]

Another statement made by TS to LE was regarding the basement was " so open". It bothered her. ( Rationalizing ) By dismembering the body, removing some of it in her van, (forgetting the head in the bucket aside)....she did leave the 'open' basement looking quite normal....to a casual observer.

Initial LE were only concerned with the bucket situation, as a cursory glance through the basement did not register anything else. There was no bloody scene, upon a quick glance.

I was honestly so confused by her rambling about how open the basement was. Do you think that’s what she meant? I honestly didn’t even think to make that connection, but it makes sense. I assumed it had some sort of weird possibly mental illness-related meaning that only makes sense to her. (Like schizotypal-esque thinking)

 

[Snail-Overlord]

Like there is rationality involved in dismembering as opposed to getting the hell out of there fast..
Crazy.

I think it’s a mix of rationality and extremely poor judgment. Like there are fragments of rationality in what she did, but the entire thing doesn’t make sense, and her plan was obviously poorly thought out because she got caught immediately. I don’t think she planned to kill Shad until she was already in the process, so I think her plan was just whatever she came up with in that moment so it didn’t end up making much sense.

 

[shotgun09]

I was honestly so confused by her rambling about how open the basement was. Do you think that’s what she meant? I honestly didn’t even think to make that connection, but it makes sense. I assumed it had some sort of weird possibly mental illness-related meaning that only makes sense to her. (Like schizotypal-esque thinking)

It may have been schizotypical, or psychosis....but more than likely it was the hugely impacted ( 52 hits of Meth ) brain cells not firing logically so as to make any sense. She knew what she wanted to convey....it just wasn't able to be expressed properly.

The basement was open....she was exposed....someone could see her... ( clean it up and hide the body...in segments).

 

[kittythehare]

I think it’s a mix of rationality and extremely poor judgment. Like there are fragments of rationality in what she did, but the entire thing doesn’t make sense, and her plan was obviously poorly thought out because she got caught immediately. I don’t think she planned to kill Shad until she was already in the process, so I think her plan was just whatever she came up with in that moment so it didn’t end up making much sense.

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[Emilie D]

I think it’s a mix of rationality and extremely poor judgment. Like there are fragments of rationality in what she did, but the entire thing doesn’t make sense, and her plan was obviously poorly thought out because she got caught immediately. I don’t think she planned to kill Shad until she was already in the process, so I think her plan was just whatever she came up with in that moment so it didn’t end up making much sense.

What didn’t make sense? If you look at her actions after Shad’s death, which I agree was not planned, I see logical and methodical disposal. Besides the fact that the dismemberment and playing with the body gave her sexual satisfaction, I don’t see anything that she did that didn’t make sense. She collected his blood and rinsed it down the drain to prevent a mess. She dismembered him to more easily remove his body from the basement without being seen. She covered up the bloodstains on the bed. She got distracted, because she was high and left his head/genitals in the bucket. If it wasn’t for that bucket, the crime probably wouldn’t have been discovered until the blood started to smell or Shad was missing for some preplanned appointments Or TS was caught with the body parts. MOO

 

[Canadianmom2three]

It may have been schizotypical, or psychosis....but more than likely it was the hugely impacted ( 52 hits of Meth ) brain cells not firing logically so as to make any sense. She knew what she wanted to convey....it just wasn't able to be expressed properly.

The basement was open....she was exposed....someone could see her... ( clean it up and hide the body...in segments).

Above bolded by me. This is why I was thinking she was mentioning the openness of the basement freaking her out. There seemed to be no door between the basement and the upstairs and so it was probably often on her mind to listen for people coming and when she is thinking back to that time, she thinks about the openness and how paranoid she felt.

MOO

 

[arielilane]

Snipped.

IMO the jurors weren't tasked with determining if TS was mentally ill. Many folks on trial are! And both sides pretty much agree she's mentally ill. But the job of the jury was more to rule on whether she wasn't capable of making rational decisions at the time of the crime due to a mental incapacity not under her control or through her decisionmaking.

I understood what the jurors were tasked with. I regret that my written opinion was not clear or is not understood. moo

 

[arielilane]

Judge: verdict seems to be in order and I will
read it as follows question one
at the time the crimes were committed
did the defendant have a mental disease
or mental defect answer no
there's no answer then for question two
it is dated this date July 27 2023
signed by the poor person there were no
dissenting jurors

 

[Snail-Overlord]

What didn’t make sense? If you look at her actions after Shad’s death, which I agree was not planned, I see logical and methodical disposal. Besides the fact that the dismemberment and playing with the body gave her sexual satisfaction, I don’t see anything that she did that didn’t make sense. She collected his blood and rinsed it down the drain to prevent a mess. She dismembered him to more easily remove his body from the basement without being seen. She covered up the bloodstains on the bed. She got distracted, because she was high and left his head/genitals in the bucket. If it wasn’t for that bucket, the crime probably wouldn’t have been discovered until the blood started to smell or Shad was missing for some preplanned appointments Or TS was caught with the body parts. MOO

When I say it didn’t make sense, I don’t mean from the perspective of cleaning up the crime – *THAT* part makes sense. Trust me, I think she knew she would be in plenty of trouble if she got caught. And she apparently contemplated calling 911 and decided against it. She knew.

To me, the part that doesn’t make sense is the fact that someone could spontaneously decide to brutally murder someone they’ve been friends with for over a decade. I can’t explain that with any sort of logic; it doesn’t make sense. I can explain the lack of impulse control, but it still leaves a lot of “whys?” unanswered.

What has to be wrong with a person’s brain for them to think like this? I know that the meth is a huge factor, but I personally feel like there is something mentally wrong with her, and I feel like it is more complex than just simple psychopathy. I think the jury made a good judgment in judging NGRI; she meets the legal definition of sanity. But I hope she can get access to decent quality therapy and psychiatric treatment in prison, because she desperately needs it.

JMO