Listen to all of the 911 calls you will find it in one of them.
Witness accounts
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Listen to all of the 911 calls you will find it in one of them.
We do? How did we establish this? Again, do you have a source for that witness because you're the first I'm hearing about it, it would be much appreciated.
At the time that the GF last heard anything, Trayvon was asking GZ why he was following him. He thought he had lost GZ. GZ may have pulled the gun on TM either as Trayvon tried to leave or after Trayvon tried to get away from him.
No one has stated when that gun was presented. We have heard several different stories from GZ, his father and his friend. We have heard, GZ went for his phone and TM saw the gun. We have heard there was a struggle for the gun. We have heard Trayvon was smothering GZ with both hands and GZ squirmed his way free and took out his gun...they can't all be true.
If Mr. Zimmerman had the gun out 2min and 5sec before the gun went off then surely Mr. Martin would've said something to his girlfriend about it.
We haven't heard any stories from Mr. Zimmerman. You have heard 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand stories based on Mr. Zimmerman's story. You will get his stories in the reports once it's released.
As for the location changing, it was all at the same location. Moving a few inches, or even a couple feet, isn't really considered to be "changing locations" in my book. Until I have a source that states otherwise I'm going to consider it to be a "location change" of no more than a few feet.
Go back and watch the bond hearing...DG is asked what stories GZ told.
Yet another 2nd hand story.
The distance from where GZ says the altercation began was at the crossing of the two sidewalks. TM's body was found well into the grassy area, behind at the shortest distance, the 2nd or third building in from the T of the two sidewalks. Concerned Papa has mapped it out nicely and Mark O'Mara even stated that TM was 70 yards from his back door.
Presumably the interviews with GZ and his stories were documented.
Mark O'Mara didn't have any evidence, the best you can say is that he used Police Chief Bill Lee's words and who knows where he got that number. From the videos and pictures that I have seen Mr. Martin's body is near the T section - just a few feet off of it.
And presumably the accounts told by everyone else were directly from Mr. Zimmerman also. That doesn't change the fact that they are 2nd hand stories.
Reader
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The #1 witness - GZ
Pretty soon GZ's first hand stories will be out/leaked also and we will find out just how inconsistent they are since they are the main reason he was charged with 2nd degree murder:
State prosecutors said Zimmerman gave several inconsistent statements to Sanford police, which is, in part, their basis for charging him with second-degree murder.
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/
We do not know what Mr. Zimmerman said in those statements. I've mentioned before that I would expect the story from anyone to fluctuate because the human memory is not perfect. If those fluctuations are what Investigator Gilbreath was talking about then they're in a much, MUCH deeper hole than I previously thought.
Concerned Papa
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Is there any witness or any evidence that supports Zimmerman's claim that TM attacked him and started this confrontation?
Depends on how you look at it. Some say that because the girlfriend states that Mr. Martin asked Mr. Zimmerman why he was following before Mr. Zimmerman could ask why he was there, that indicates that Mr. Martin initiated the confrontation. The reported autopsy leak that says Mr. Martin had 2 injuries - a bullet hole and injured knuckles - tends to point that Mr. Zimmerman is telling the truth. I'm sure more will be released as time passes.
Depends on whether you mean direct or circumstantial. I don't think there's a witness statement that contains more than circumstantial evidence of who may have started the fight. Witness statements are the topic of this thread, the discussion of other evidence is o/t -- not board policy, just don't want to see a potentially information discussion deleted. I do believe, however, that there is only circumstancil evidence of who started the physical altercation. jmo
Concerned Papa
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I'm sure I don't need to remind you that's not quite all the girlfriend said about that moment either with somebody pushing, phone falling out, etc.
Who started any fight would seem to me to be a critical element in this situation, more so than these relatively minor injuries. All George's broken nose and black eyes prove is he probably got his azz whipped.
I haven't always been Papa to three beautiful granddaughters. There was a time, long ago, that I was in more than my share of knock down drag out fights. The only point I'm making is that the worst azz whipping I ever took was one I started. It's where I learned one of life's more valuable lessons.
There's a Jesse for every James. :rocker:
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