WKMG - Homicide Charges Shortly, Grand Jury next week **MERGED THREADS** #2

[distracted]

I think they got mitochondial DNA and proved that the body in the trunk was Caylee's (given that she's the only one with that mtDNA who is missing).

I think they also found Caylee's hair with the death ring.

But, I think LE wants to run every DNA test there is, just to have al the ammo.

Agreed. Particularly in the absense of a body. There must be no doubt that it is Caylee. I believe they have that evidence now.

I'm still holding out hope, however, that TES finds Caylee's remains before this case goes to trial.

 

[elfie]

Exactly! She will never confess..remember "I am absolutely PETRIFIED!" She means of CINDY!! She will never face her mother's wrath by admitting the truth!!

Petrified: turned to stone. A sad, but telling remark. She is afraid to experience feelings she would necessarily encounter by facing the truth.

 

[gardenhart]

The difference is an Axis II isn't suffering from hallucinations and delusions, like the Axis Is often do. A schizophrenic might do something antisocial, because s/he perceives a distorted reality. Maybe they don't even know what they are doing. There's no reality testing ability.

A personality disorder does it because they can only think of Number One. They know it's wrong, but they don't care. That's why sociopathy is not a legal defense.

I have to say very respectfully, what you wrote above makes no sense in light of what we're discussing.

I have certainly not found anything that says mental illnesses must involve hallucinations or delusions. In fact, my family member who is mentally ill has never had a hallucination or delusion in his life. Nor are we talking about legal defenses at all.

The point I'm making is that this so-called expert on NG has on more than one occasion said a personality disorder isn't a mental illness. Obviously they need a better expert.

If there is some arcane school of therapy (obviously not psychiatry) that considers mental illnesses only to be those that involve hallucinations and that can be treated with medication, it's arcane enough that I am not finding it.

 

[Hailiejade77]

Can't wait for her to get charged and convicted!!!!! I know there will be Justice for Caylee.

HEY CASEY AND BAIZ,... read the new sign!

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

Found this on The Criminal Report Daily, David Lohr's site (he went down to Orlando to help Tim Miller with the Search)...states GJ is expected to return a decision by end of day Tuesday and legal analysts predict JB's motion for Casey to search for her daughter will be denied. Full article and link right below.

There have been several new developments in the case of Casey Anthony and her missing 2-year-old daughter, Caylee Anthony.

According to a source close to the investigation, prosecutors now have enough forensic evidence to ask a grand jury to indict Anthony for her daughter's murder. That evidence allegedly proves that Caylee's body was in the trunk of the car Casey Anthony was driving and at one point in the backyard of the Anthony family home.

Casey Anthony's parents, George and Cindy Anthony, have voluntarily provided investigators with DNA samples, which are currently being compared to hairs found in the trunk of the car. Anthony's brother, Lee Anthony, initially refused to provide investigators with a sample; however he later submitted to that request when investigators served him with a search warrant.

According to WFTV.com, George Anthony has been called to testify against his daughter before the grand jury. It remains unclear if Cindy and Lee will also be called to testify. In addition to family members, prosecutors will also present testimony from an FBI profiler, who is expected to offer a detailed analysis Anthony's psychological makeup.

Investigators are convinced that Caylee was murdered on or about June 17. Cell phone records show that from June 16 to June 18, Anthony mostly went about her normal routine - traveling to and from her parents and boyfriend's house - however, pings have also placed her near Blanchard Park and the Econ Trail, an isolated area south of Lake Underhill. Both those areas were searched by myself and Texas EquuSearch; however given the high waters and thick underbrush it is possible that evidence could have gone overlooked.

The grand jury is expected to issue a ruling in the case by the end of the day Tuesday.

Meanwhile, Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, is scheduled to appear before Judge Stan Strickland tomorrow, to rule on a motion Baez filed last week, requesting that Strickland lighten up on Anthony's home confinement restrictions. According to the motion, Anthony wants to get involved in the search for a "living" Caylee Anthony. Legal analysts predict that motion will be denied.


http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_...hell-news.html

 

[gardenhart]

Well, this is interesting. It looks like Florida allows capital punishment for any murder involving a person under the age of 12. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that they could seek capital murder charges if they're looking at murder charges. But am I reading this right? It looks like any premeditated murder could be a capital crime under their law.

Capital felony committed by person serving sentence of imprisonment or under community control; previous capital felony or felony using or threat of violence; knowingly created great risk of death to many persons; the capital felony was committed while defendant was engaged in, was an accomplice, in commission of or attempt to commit or flight after committing or attempt to commit any robbery, sexual battery, aggravated child abuse, aggravated abuse of a disabled or elderly person, aggravated stalking, carjacking, arson, burglary, kidnapping, aircraft piracy, unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bombings; capital felony for purposes of avoiding lawful arrest or effecting escape from custody; capital felony for pecuniary gain; capital felony to hinder lawful exercise of governmental function or enforcement of laws; capital felony especially heinous, atrocious or cruel; premeditated homicide; victim of capital felony was public official or law enforcement officer engaged in official duties; victim of capital murder was less than 12 years old; criminal felony committed by a criminal street gang member.

http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/capital-punishment/florida/

 

[Brini]

I have to say very respectfully, what you wrote above makes no sense in light of what we're discussing.

I have certainly not found anything that says mental illnesses must involve hallucinations or delusions. In fact, my family member who is mentally ill has never had a hallucination or delusion in his life. Nor are we talking about legal defenses at all.

The point I'm making is that this so-called expert on NG has on more than one occasion said a personality disorder isn't a mental illness. Obviously they need a better expert.

If there is some arcane school of therapy (obviously not psychiatry) that considers mental illnesses only to be those that involve hallucinations and that can be treated with medication, it's arcane enough that I am not finding it.

I didn't say all Axis I disorders involved hallucinations necessarily involved and/or delusions. I said they CAN.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Well, this is interesting. It looks like Florida allows capital punishment for any murder involving a person under the age of 12. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that they could seek capital murder charges if they're looking at murder charges. But am I reading this right? It looks like any premeditated murder could be a capital crime under their law.

Capital felony committed by person serving sentence of imprisonment or under community control; previous capital felony or felony using or threat of violence; knowingly created great risk of death to many persons; the capital felony was committed while defendant was engaged in, was an accomplice, in commission of or attempt to commit or flight after committing or attempt to commit any robbery, sexual battery, aggravated child abuse, aggravated abuse of a disabled or elderly person, aggravated stalking, carjacking, arson, burglary, kidnapping, aircraft piracy, unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bombings; capital felony for purposes of avoiding lawful arrest or effecting escape from custody; capital felony for pecuniary gain; capital felony to hinder lawful exercise of governmental function or enforcement of laws; capital felony especially heinous, atrocious or cruel; premeditated homicide; victim of capital felony was public official or law enforcement officer engaged in official duties; victim of capital murder was less than 12 years old; criminal felony committed by a criminal street gang member.

http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/capital-punishment/florida/

The confusion is coming from the following , I believe:

The fact that the victim is less than 12 years of age does not determine that it is a capital felony.

After a finding of guilty on an already charged capital felony, then that factor that the victim is under 12 is one of a list of aggravating circumstances to be used during PhaseII. ..during the second hearing to determine whether or not the death penalty will be imposed or whether it will be a life sentence.:blowkiss: i.e. It is used in the "punishment phase" and not as a reason to make the charge Murder 1 or Murder 2...

My info is from--921.141 Sentence of death or life imprisonment for capital felonies; further proceedings to determine sentence.--

 

[Brini]

Or something traumatic happens in life whereby you have to harbor deep secrets that you can't tell a soul about.

jmo.

That's more likely post traumatic stress disorder, that can come with that.

 

[Brini]

Agreed. Particularly in the absense of a body. There must be no doubt that it is Caylee. I believe they have that evidence now.

I'm still holding out hope, however, that TES finds Caylee's remains before this case goes to trial.

PLEEEEEEZ, oh PLEEEEEEEEEZ! raying:

 

[kathyn2]

HaHa, I love that sign! Welcome back KC!! I can't wait to see her hauled off there.

Can't wait for her to get charged and convicted!!!!! I know there will be Justice for Caylee.

HEY CASEY AND BAIZ,... read the new sign!

 

[OneLostGrl]

The prosecution could also use that to argue future dangerousness during sentencing. I covered a murder trial a number of years ago in which the defense did a great job of proving the murderer had a horrible childhood and a lifetime of mental disorders.

The jury foreman told me after the trial they opted for the death penalty instead of life in prison because they believed his mental disorders meant he would always be a danger to society.

Very true. People tend to think NGBRI is some sort of sweetheart deal.

I suppose if she attempts to use that as a defense it's what we will all be arguing about in threads next so I won't even go there now! LOL

 

[Brini]

I have to say very respectfully, what you wrote above makes no sense in light of what we're discussing.

I have certainly not found anything that says mental illnesses must involve hallucinations or delusions. In fact, my family member who is mentally ill has never had a hallucination or delusion in his life. Nor are we talking about legal defenses at all.

The point I'm making is that this so-called expert on NG has on more than one occasion said a personality disorder isn't a mental illness. Obviously they need a better expert.

If there is some arcane school of therapy (obviously not psychiatry) that considers mental illnesses only to be those that involve hallucinations and that can be treated with medication, it's arcane enough that I am not finding it.

If your opinion is that personality disorders are mental illnesses, that's OK. Everybody has an opinion. ;-)

 

[Brini]

Well, this is interesting. It looks like Florida allows capital punishment for any murder involving a person under the age of 12. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that they could seek capital murder charges if they're looking at murder charges. But am I reading this right? It looks like any premeditated murder could be a capital crime under their law.

Capital felony committed by person serving sentence of imprisonment or under community control; previous capital felony or felony using or threat of violence; knowingly created great risk of death to many persons; the capital felony was committed while defendant was engaged in, was an accomplice, in commission of or attempt to commit or flight after committing or attempt to commit any robbery, sexual battery, aggravated child abuse, aggravated abuse of a disabled or elderly person, aggravated stalking, carjacking, arson, burglary, kidnapping, aircraft piracy, unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bombings; capital felony for purposes of avoiding lawful arrest or effecting escape from custody; capital felony for pecuniary gain; capital felony to hinder lawful exercise of governmental function or enforcement of laws; capital felony especially heinous, atrocious or cruel; premeditated homicide; victim of capital felony was public official or law enforcement officer engaged in official duties; victim of capital murder was less than 12 years old; criminal felony committed by a criminal street gang member.

http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/capital-punishment/florida/

THAT'S interesting! Thanks!:blowkiss::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Brini]

HaHa, I love that sign! Welcome back KC!! I can't wait to see her hauled off there.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yup. You did miss something.

First point. The court ordered eval was not a psychotherapeutic examination. It was just a hunt for information to see if (1) she was too sick to stand trial, and/or (2) she was not so mentally ill that she couldn't be held criminally responsible for the charges against her. It was not a doctor visit which results in treatment recommendations. Since she passed the first two questions, there are no updates for the Psychiatrist to submit to the court. People have the right to refuse psychiatric treatment and medications. (Think Britney Spears until the authorities started the California Welfare and Institutions Code 5150 procedures to have her involuntarily admitted to Cedars Siani Hospital Psychiatric unit.)

Second point. There were no "stipulations" for release. A stipulation is when two opposing parties agree to the same thing and the court adopts the agreement as a stipulated order instead of deciding the case and entering the court's own order. In this instance, KC didn't have the opportunity to agree to anything. It was a one-directional order from the court to KC. No consent or agreement on KC's part was involved at all.

:blowkiss:

oh boy, see the NGBRI stuff is already starting!

You say "People have the right to refuse psychiatric treatment and medications."

My response is- No, not all people... not if it is a condition of ones bail, probation or parole. If you stop seeing your shrink, it can be considered a violation of the conditions of your release.

Sure, by law you have the right to refuse treatment and you can choose to stop seeing your shrink but you had better be prepared to face the consequences.. which is to go back to jail.

 

[magic-cat]

If your opinion is that personality disorders are mental illnesses, that's OK. Everybody has an opinion. ;-)

Hi Brini-
I just had this same discussion with my 17 year old today and was attempting to explain why sociopathy was not accepted as a mental illness, although it IS a disorder. The person KNOWS right from wrong, they just don't care was it in a nutshell. Now, my own mother is 100% proof positive a sociopath amoung other things, and I do believe that they can also develop other mental illnesses, but sociopathy in and of itself is a disordered personality that says ME ME ME ME ME ME and to heck with the rest of you all I care about is ME ME ME ME ME...They KNOW what is right and legal and what is wrong and illegal, but disregard that knowledge to fulfill their own desires...

 

[magic-cat]

oh boy, see the NGBRI stuff is already starting!

You say "People have the right to refuse psychiatric treatment and medications."

My response is- No, not all people... not if it is a condition of ones bail, probation or parole. If you stop seeing your shrink, it can be considered a violation of the conditions of your release.

Sure, by law you have the right to refuse treatment and you can choose to stop seeing your shrink but you had better be prepared to face the consequences.. which is to go back to jail.

Seung Hui Cho-I hope I spelled it correctly...he slipped through the cracks on this one and wound up murdering all those people at Virginia Tech and himself. He had court ordered psychotherapy and nobody in the system ever followed up on it...and we see where that ended. As a side note, THAT is where my 17 year old wants to go to college...

 

[OneLostGrl]

She had a court-ordered psychiatric examination (eval) and the records were sealed -- it just wasn't a therapeutic type of eval. So, you heard it right. Most people think when someone sees a doctor that treatment and meds would follow. But this is more like seeing a doctor to see if you qualify for insurance -- just to get information.

To add to this post just do others are aware.. these court ordered evals are a joke! "Do you know your name.. the date, got kids, how old are you, what do you do for a living.. Do you know why you are here today, what you have done wrong.. understand why it's wrong.. well why did you do it.. how did you get here today, do you have any kids, are you married, what crime did you commit, what's the date today, who's you mother, what state do you live in?"

"We have these pictures here that we want you to look at and tell us what you see..." "Ok, now we are gonna read these sentances to you and we'll move on to other things but remember the sentances and we will come back to them later and ask you questions about them"... blah blah, yada yada

And then they get rude and want to know personal things but you don't have to answer. The whole process is a waste... a huge waste!

 

[OneLostGrl]

What caused her spiral into sociopathic behavior?

IMO It's not to tough to understand what's wrong with Casey. Meet her borderline mother- there ya have nature AND nurture. I really think as far as Casey goes it was a combination of both things, genetics (I know, I know there is no proof personality disorders are genetic, this is just MO) and learned behaviors.

I like your choice of words here.. rather than calling her a sociopath you describe her behavior as sociopathic. Would you mind sharing why? that's interesting to me..