Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #2

[LuckyLucy2]

Thank you. I thought I read a number of threads back that this suit was settled. I'm actually glad that it hasn't. I think there are still unanswered questions as to who was there at the time of the accident, as well as why Dina was late to pick Max up and MIA for hours after the accident. IMO, this is relevant because it has an impact on motive for a murder. Given the timelines, my opinion is that timing doesn't work for this to be a suicide. No way do I believe just one contact by the police (if it happened) was enough to spark a suicide. Particularly when medical results supposedly communicated were not dire as of yet, according to Dina/Nina.

Do you have a MSM link to show that Dina was late to pick up Max? If you remember correctly, Jonah had considered taking Max to the zoo that morning, but went to the gym - that was in the People magazine article. So, it seems there were NO plans for Dina to pick up Max. Just another myth in this case, IMO. Please supply a link if I am wrong.

Only Rebecca and XZ were there at the time of the accident. Martin Rudoy has said so...in a Websleuths interview, in fact. So that is another myth.

Dina was not missing. She was at her home, sleeping with the phone turned off. That is in the Pheonix Magazine article.

<mod snip>

 

[MyBelle]

Snip from article -

Shacknai lost her six-year-old son Max after a tragic fall inside his father Jonah's Coronado mansion in July 2011. The only person there at the time was Rebecca Zahau, Johah's girlfriend--who just days after Max's death was found nude, bound and hanging from the mansion's second-story balcony.

"I never had the opportunity to ask what happened," said Shacknai.&#8232;

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...preckels-Mansion-291021201.html#ixzz3QyQiCtIy
------
The focus of the interview is not solely on Dina and the WDS. The Feb. 7th interview is a combination of Dina denying the WDS claims along with some discussion of Maxie's death. If the interview had not mentioned Max there would no reason to bring up XZ.

In Dina's past interviews when asked who was there at the time, Dina has always said Rebecca and XZ. It is unusual for Dina to leave out XZ. The only person there at the time was Rebecca, is not even factual. XZ made the 911 call. LL2 has pointed out, the article does not quote Dina saying this. However the paragraph is followed by a direct quote from Dina, "I never had an opportunity to ask what happened." said Shacknai. Dina's claims have always been either Rebecca or XZ killed Max because they were allegedly the two at the mansion. Imo, not including XZ is highly unusual.

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I think it is part of the legal strategy by her attorneys. It sounds to me that she wants her questions answered in court. I have no idea if LE really ever interviewed XZ. iirc, she was a minor at the time of Max's fall. I don't know if she is still a minor.

JMO

 

[K_Z]

New document posted on San Diego ROA. #105, Dina Shacknai's motion for an order to compel more specific answers to her Special Interrogatories, set one (post dated to the May 8, 2015 hearing.) Remember those gazillion special interrogatories from Dina and her attorneys? The ones that prompted the Zahau's to ask for the order of protection?

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...A-105_02-25-15_Motion_Other_1425012025761.pdf

(Little error that should have been caught somewhere in the proofreading-- Dina Shacknai's attorney Kim Schumann uses male pronouns when referring to Pari Zahau. And given his first name, IMO, he should be sensitive to gender.)

IMO, this motion is a little on the petulant and "whiny" side. "You didn't answer the way I told you to. So there. "

We can look forward to more details when the memorandum of points and authorities is posted, shortly, I'd anticipate.

 

[K_Z]

And the walls in the guest house are something like 12' thick concrete.

Snipped for focus.

How do you know what the construction methods were for the guesthouse, and whether or not that would be soundproof, which is what you're implying? How do you know the walls are 12 inch (I think you meant 12 inches, not 12 feet) thick concrete?

That is some very specific information, IMO. Are you guessing because of the beach location, or have you actually seen this for yourself, in the Spreckles guesthouse?

What you speculate that you would have done in the guesthouse, and what Adam actually did, are two very separate things, so I'm not persuaded there is any relevance to what you have speculated about in your post.

Adam has discussed a number of things he actually claims to have done, in the guesthouse. Unlike your speculation that he would fall into an exhausted sleep from the fatigue of his travels, as you say you would have done, Adam Shacknai claims to have needed, and taken, a powerful sleeping pill, Ambien. Ambien is quite well documented to produce very odd effects in some patients, such as "sleepwalking" episodes where they are unaware of their actions. That is immensely concerning, IMO, in light of what happened at Spreckles that night.

Some of the other things Adam states he did in the guesthouse are rather personal and embarrassing, IMO. I've always thought it was very odd, the way he "confessed" (blurted out) the personal nature of what he was doing. As if he has no "filter" to more politely and appropriately phrase how he spent his "personal time" in the guest house. It has always made me wonder if he has some clinically relevant social functioning issues. And that then makes me wonder if he could be manipulated, directed by others, or taken advantage of, especially if he was in a state where he was self medicated with Ambien, IMO.

 

[Gilgamesh]

No, it is simply what the Zahaus are trying to get the public to believe. But why? It is very curious that little Max had played in that hallway for years with no accidents. Funny, the first morning XZ is there he is accidented, and then XZ is whisked out of town as quickly as possible. why???? and why do the Zahaus want to hide the fact she was there?

Adam will NEVER settle in this case. I'm sure he is more than upset by the way the Zahaus have done him and his family. Adam did his best to SAVE Zahau, and the Zahaus have tormented him ever since. No, IMO, it would be a cold day in hell before they see a dime from Adam Shacknai.

Lulu2,
You have a most interesting way of posting that really could trip one up if they weren't able to analyze your style. Let's diagram this posting.
First of all, you state what the Zahaus are thinking and you don't know. "It's simply what the Zahaus are trying to get the public to believe". You are not able to read minds so that sentence really isn't based in fact. Next, you state that Max played for years with no accident. That IS a fact. Ok, so far so good with this sentence. Next, you state that XZ arrived at some point. Ok, that's true. But then you say that Max was hurt the morning after XZ arrived with the implication that the 2 are connected. So....lets say the first sentence about Max is an apple and the next sentence about XZ is an orange...what you are saying is that an apple plus an orange equals an apple. Nope.
Then you wrap this disconnected 'logic' with another supposition about the Zahaus. You are implying that the Zahaus are trying to hide that she was there when the FACT of the matter is that you do not know how they are feeling. Yes, XZ was flown out of Coronado after max's accident but there are so many reasons this could have been so, particularly since the environment had changed after Max's accident.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I used to work with a man who was very tall, very big and he had a deep voice. He used to state things very confidently. Since this confident stating of 'facts' was accompanied by his big persona, it took people a while to realize that a lot of time he was just blowing air out of....
Stating things in an adamant manner does not make them true.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Rebecca's suicide came only 40 hours after Max's fatal accident. The two are forever linked.

Dina, Nina, and Adam may use Max's accident and Rebecca's part in it as proof of suicide. They have the right to defend themselves, and IMO, Rebecca and her sisters involvement in Max's injuries are the main motive for her suicide.

I believe they will use this, plus all of the physical evidence discovered by LE to defend themselves, should it go to a jury. But I don't think that will ever happen. Maybe when pigs fly.

Rebecca's murder came 40 hours after Max's fatal accident. The two are forever linked.


Moo

 

[*Lash*]

I looked up the Demurrer myself. I will quote one particularly interesting response to the Zahau's allegations:

'As to defendant Nina Romano, plaintiffs allege "that on the evening of July 12, 2011, DINA aggressively confronted the DECEDENT at the Ocean Boulevard residence, along with her sister, NINA. (FAC, p. 7:9-11.) There are no facts alleged as to what Nina did, whether she was simply present or was part of the "confrontation," let alone whether the "confrontation" was solely verbal or had any physical aspect to it. Accordingly, even if the alleged verbal confrontation occurred as alleged, there are no facts alleged as to Nina's purported conduct that would be sufficient to rise to the level of assault or battery.'

Red text mine. Doesn't look like Nina is backing away from a confrontation the night Rebecca was murdered. I could almost infer that Nina is throwing Dina under the bus?

I will quote a second interesting tidbit from Nina's Demurrer:

'There are no allegations that Romano, an alleged resident of San Joaquin County (FAC, pp. 4:28:-5.2 [P14], was anywhere at or near the premises at the time of the death or even in a position of being capable of engaging in any of the acts alleged in conclusory fashion.'

Really Nina? You gave an extensive interview about texting Rebecca, going to the house that night, NOT touching the gate (what was that about?). At least have your lawyers get the facts straight as they stack up to your interviews. "NOT ANYWHERE AT OR NEAR THE PREMISES? Rubbish.

Here are the full documents. Nothing additional to point out, Justice Be Served summed it up nicely. The BIG tidbit coming from the demurrer is Nina's denial of being anywhere at or near the premises at the time of death. The use of the wording TOD is a good attempt to keep it factual I suppose, but side stepping her entire visit that night when Nina admitted in an interview she was ON THE PREMISES wanting to talk to Rebecca...hmmm. AND, Rebecca's TOD has always been up for debate since the ME's office left Rebecca's body on display and not examined for over 12 hrs.

Nina Romano's Demurrer -

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...TL_ROA-95_12-09-14_Demurrer_1425062586370.pdf

Nina Romano's Motion to Strike -

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...4_12-09-14_Motion_to_Strike_1425062585964.pdf

 

[MyBelle]

So I'm curious, why did Dina let the accident findings stand? Why didn't she sue to get it investigated further. I know it's been stated in the past that she didn't because Rebecca died. It was also mentioned she settled her suit against Jonah (hmmm, money was good enough for her?). If she felt so strongly, she should have continued the fight. I know I would have. Instead, now she focuses on it as a rationale. Doesn't make sense to me.

Is it possible to file a lawsuit to force law enforcement to re-open an investigation? I've never heard of that being done. Since there is no statute of limitations on murder, I would think LE would reopen a case if new evidence comes to light.

I do believe Dina is continuing her fight in the courtroom and sworn testimony is what she now seeks.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Here are the full documents. Nothing additional to point out, Justice Be Served summed it up nicely. The BIG tidbit coming from the demurrer is Nina's denial of being anywhere at or near the premises at the time of death. The use of the wording TOD is a good attempt to keep it factual I suppose, but side stepping her entire visit that night when Nina admitted in an interview she was ON THE PREMISES wanting to talk to Rebecca...hmmm. AND, Rebecca's TOD has always been up for debate since the ME's office left Rebecca's body on display and not examined for over 12 hrs.

Nina Romano's Demurrer -

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...TL_ROA-95_12-09-14_Demurrer_1425062586370.pdf

Nina Romano's Motion to Strike -

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...4_12-09-14_Motion_to_Strike_1425062585964.pdf

Time of death is a very important fact. Just because someone comes to a house, there has to be evidence that places them IN the house at a particular time. Nina can't be blamed for the ME's procedures.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

New document posted on San Diego ROA. #105, Dina Shacknai's motion for an order to compel more specific answers to her Special Interrogatories, set one (post dated to the May 8, 2015 hearing.) Remember those gazillion special interrogatories from Dina and her attorneys? The ones that prompted the Zahau's to ask for the order of protection?

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...A-105_02-25-15_Motion_Other_1425012025761.pdf

(Little error that should have been caught somewhere in the proofreading-- Dina Shacknai's attorney Kim Schumann uses male pronouns when referring to Pari Zahau. And given his first name, IMO, he should be sensitive to gender.)

IMO, this motion is a little on the petulant and "whiny" side. "You didn't answer the way I told you to. So there. "

We can look forward to more details when the memorandum of points and authorities is posted, shortly, I'd anticipate.

Thank you KZ

My interpretation of the document goes along with yours. Dina's attorneys are not satisfied with the answers they received. Also, Dina's attorneys agreed to give the Zahau's more time to respond. Instead of Oct. 14th, the defendants were kind an extended to Jan. 12th, but it appears since the defendants did not get the answers they wanted they are going back and complaining about the original date. The Zahau's did respond on Jan. 12th.

 

[*Lash*]

Time of death is a very important fact. Just because someone comes to a house, there has to be evidence that places them IN the house at a particular time. Nina can't be blamed for the ME's procedures.

JMO

Couldn't agree with you more, TOD is very important!!! It was completely unprofessional for a county ME to leave the body of a suspicious death unexamined for 12 plus hours. I'm not blaming Nina for the ME's unprofessionalism at all. It is my opinion because the ME left Rebecca's body exposed to the elements for over 12 hours, the TOD may be completley off base.

 

[K_Z]

Yes, XZ was flown out of Coronado after max's accident but there are so many reasons this could have been so, particularly since the environment had changed after Max's accident.

Rebecca's murder came 40 hours after Max's fatal accident. The two are forever linked.

(First quote respectfully snipped.)

Tagging off your post, I agree, the 2 are forever linked.

But "linked" doesn't mean that the discovery, depositions, and possible future trial for Rebecca Zahau's wrongful death will become all about, or even seque into, a de-facto wrongful death trial for Dina's theories about how Max died.

No matter how much Dina might want that to be so-- and from the interviews she continues to give, it seems she is very focused on continuing to blame Rebecca for Max's death, and using that as an emotional plea and shield to deflect the accusations against her about Rebecca's death.

Dina's carefully crafted message, and talking points, continues to be these logical fallacies (IMO):

- "I couldn't possibly have killed Rebecca, because I'm a grieving mother."

- "My only son was in the ICU, so I couldn't have possibly killed Rebecca."

- "I have suspicions about how Max died, so I couldn't possibly have killed Rebecca, because I wanted answers from her."

- "The Zahaus are terrible, awful, disgusting, vile people for naming me in this lawsuit. I am a grieving mother, and I couldn't possibly have killed Rebecca Zahau."

- "I am a grieving mother, and it's the anniversary of Max's death. Therefore I could not have killed Rebecca Zahau."

* That last bullet is from her comments when the Zahau lawsuit was filed, implying that they filed it to sully the first anniversary of Max's death, when all she wanted to do was grieve and remember him. Remember her interview when she said she was now "forced to take substantial measures to protect herself and her remaining family....."

Dina has an easily identified pattern of linking unrelated things, and using that combined with an emotional plea as a shield in her interviews and public comments. It's an interesting technique to observe.

This case is not about how Max died, even as many feel Dina's feelings about his death and Rebecca's presence in the home are what precipitated Rebecca's murder. None of that is relevant to Dina Shacknai defending herself against the accusations that she caused Rebecca Zahau's death. Dina's theories about Max's death are not relevant to Nina and Adam defending themselves against accusations that they caused Rebecca Zahau's death.

Dina's experts she hired are not going to be allowed to give testimony that is relevant to Dina's involvement in Rebecca's hanging death, and the Zahau's won't have to hire experts to disprove Dina's experts. Max's death was ruled an accident, Dina doesn't agree with that, and that's about all that will be allowed in that area, IMO. There won't be a "trial within a trial" for Max's wrongful death, with deceased Rebecca as the "defendant." That's just not going to happen, IMO.

I'm sure Dina Shacknai's accusations about Rebecca will be explored in her deposition, and other's depositions, but the judge is not going to allow Dina's attorneys to put on a case about her theories and accusations about how Max died. Her attorneys would be foolish to do that, because all it does is introduce more strongly the motive for revenge murder, IMO.

What is going to be highly relevant, IMO, is the long history of Dina's antagonistic behavior toward Rebecca, as well as what she did, what she said, and how she behaved in the 40 hours after Max's accident. That will be explored thoroughly, IMO, from a number of witnesses, as well as from previous official interviews.

 

[MyBelle]

Thank you KZ

My interpretation of the document goes along with yours. Dina's attorneys are not satisfied with the answers they received. Also, Dina's attorneys agreed to give the Zahau's more time to respond. Instead of Oct. 14th, the defendants were kind an extended to Jan. 12th, but it appears since the defendants did not get the answers they wanted they are going back and complaining about the original date. The Zahau's did respond on Jan. 12th.

The way I read it, the Plaintiffs asked for and were granted more time and even then the questions were answered with generalizations rather than specific facts such as the name of specific law enforcement officers. The Plaintiffs have made serious allegations of conspiracy and murder. A defendant's lawyer would be remiss in not pointing that out. That said, the amount of hours the defense is putting into it will amount to a huge chunk of change that the Plaintiffs could end up paying if they lose.

This case truly is bizarre which is why it has attracted so much interest, imo. Max's fall and who was with him at the time will be the total focus of the defense of all three individuals. They will not only put RZ's character on trial, I think they will assassinate it. It's going to get real ugly, unfortunately.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Couldn't agree with you more, TOD is very important!!! It was completely unprofessional for a county ME to leave the body of a suspicious death unexamined for 12 plus hours. I'm not blaming Nina for the ME's unprofessionalism at all. It is my opinion because the ME left Rebecca's body exposed to the elements for over 12 hours, the TOD may be completley off base.

ITA it did seem unprofessional. I don't recall if the ME's office came to the scene early on or not to at least examine the body, take temp, etc.

 

[BBL]

MyBelle

"Max's fall and who was with him at the time will be the total focus of the defense of all three individuals. They will not only put RZ's character on trial, I think they will assassinate it. "

Respectfully snipped & BBM.

With all due respect, even if Rebecca torpedoed Max off down the stairs (Dina's unfounded accusation), this still isn't a defense for murdering Rebecca. She could be a horrible person but that still doesn't excuse murder. This only strengthens the motive for revenge murder by Dina/Nina/Adam. I hope they have a better defense then this.

 

[Inparadise]

MyBelle

"Max's fall and who was with him at the time will be the total focus of the defense of all three individuals. They will not only put RZ's character on trial, I think they will assassinate it. "

Respectfully snipped & BBM.

With all due respect, even if Rebecca torpedoed Max off down the stairs (Dina's unfounded accusation), this still isn't a defense for murdering Rebecca. She could be a horrible person but that still doesn't excuse murder. This only strengthens the motive for revenge murder by Dina/Nina/Adam. I hope they have a better defense then this.

IMO, Dina should be asking Jonah about his older children's involvement regarding Max's accident, one of them in particular........they were both there at Spreckels that morning, and so was Jonah.

 

[SophieRose]

IMO, Dina should be asking Jonah about his older children's involvement regarding Max's accident, one of them in particular........they were both there at Spreckels that morning, and so was Jonah.

Link please. Or is this a piece of your verified insider information?

 

[screecher]

IMO, Dina should be asking Jonah about his older children's involvement regarding Max's accident, one of them in particular........they were both there at Spreckels that morning, and so was Jonah.

Exactly. Wonder if she is doing exactly that, in her wrongful death suit she brought against Jonah.

 

[Inparadise]

Exactly. Wonder if she is doing exactly that, in her wrongful death suit she brought against Jonah.

I doubt it since she doesn't want to do anything that would prevent Jonah getting back together with her.......which I find interesting since he has requested an order of protection against her. IMO, he hasn't wanted anything to do with her for a long time..........I suggested to her attorney (Angela) way back when that she should be asking Jonah for answers about that day, but I guess they/she dismissed it.