Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California

[MyBelle]

I think there is a great chance of depositions proceeding. Judges are inclined to give plaintiffs latitude for doing their own discovery. I imagine those depositions could be very illuminating. Many a murder has been staged as a suicide. In this case we have a POI with a documented history of aggression, as well as a documented history of embellishment and discrepancies about their past. Let the depositions begin!

Based on my own experience as an executor of an estate who has filed a wrongful death lawsuit, I doubt the Judge will allow the case to go forward against all of the defendants because it was ruled a suicide. In our case, we had to get the death certificate amended so it would list a motor vehicle accident. Even then the Judge dismissed two defendants because we couldn't tie them directly to the accident.

 

[inthedark14]

I think there is a great chance of depositions proceeding. Judges are inclined to give plaintiffs latitude for doing their own discovery. I imagine those depositions could be very illuminating. Many a murder has been staged as a suicide. In this case we have a POI with a documented history of aggression, as well as a documented history of embellishment and discrepancies about their past. Let the depositions begin!

Also, let's not forget that the Z family has a suit against SDSO regarding evidence they have not received. The date for that IIRC is before the next meeting/court date for the wrongful death suit.

 

[Betty P]

Whether it is true or not, I find it to be in very poor taste. Why is the info on the game of Clue just now being revealed given the chief's retirement party was celebrated in mid-May?

I left the RZ threads, after diligent research, once I became convinced, that Max did not suffer an accidental death and RZ committed suicide. My position has not changed.

However, admittedly, there is a matter that has bothered me somewhat. It is depicted in cynic's post #111 in the Autopsy thread that show RZs back. I speculated that the abrasions on her back came from when RZ cut [from Ann Rule's book] down the chandelier and/or from swinging into the shrubbery under the balcony. However, most of the abrasions are not described as healing so they must of occurred at or near TOD. I realize the AR states there are many abrasions on her back, so cynic's markings are a guesstimate at the number. It is the description of the abrasions as "some seem to be paired and separated" that I cannot reconcile.

FWIW, IMHO, the tape residue was from wearing bandaids.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?148933-Rebecca-s-Autopsy&p=7355458#post7355458

moo omho mho and all that jazz

DeDee, if the tape residue was from band aids, the autopsy would note some kind of healing or recently healed wound on the skin underneath. There was no sign of any wound in the vicinity of the tape marks.

As for the broken chandelier causing cuts on Becky's back, that could only happen if she slung it over her shoulder to carry it outside to the trash b in, highly unlikely.

While a bush may have cut her back post mortem, a more likely scenario would be her being attacked near bushes and/or dragged across a rough surface.

 

[MyBelle]

Whether it is true or not, I find it to be in very poor taste. Why is the info on the game of Clue just now being revealed given the chief's retirement party was celebrated in mid-May?

I left the RZ threads, after diligent research, once I became convinced, that Max did not suffer an accidental death and RZ committed suicide. My position has not changed.

However, admittedly, there is a matter that has bothered me somewhat. It is depicted in cynic's post #111 in the Autopsy thread that show RZs back. I speculated that the abrasions on her back came from when RZ cut [from Ann Rule's book] down the chandelier and/or from swinging into the shrubbery under the balcony. However, most of the abrasions are not described as healing so they must of occurred at or near TOD. I realize the AR states there are many abrasions on her back, so cynic's markings are a guesstimate at the number. It is the description of the abrasions as "some seem to be paired and separated" that I cannot reconcile.

FWIW, IMHO, the tape residue was from wearing bandaids.

moo omho mho and all that jazz

I tried to edit your post down to same some space but I share your puzzlement. It's one reason why I think the ME was wrong to rule it a suicide rather than inconclusive. I believe it was a suicide but the details about it raise questions that haven't been answered.

 

[Betty P]

I don't know, I'll fess up. For me the time is past where I want to consider this a suicide and debate that.:gaah:

That doesn't mean I will discourage others, I'm just not responding to those posts anymore.

I must say I agree. The latest evidence has convinced me that Becky's death was probably not a suicide. The only thing that could change my mind would be a lot of new, clear, compelling evidence showing otherwise.

There's no point in rehashing the same old arguments. I see no point in responding to them.

 

[Inparadise]

I must say I agree. The latest evidence has convinced me that Becky's death was probably not a suicide. The only thing that could change my mind would be a lot of new, clear, compelling evidence showing otherwise.

There's no point in rehashing the same old arguments. I see no point in responding to them.

I have seen ALL OF THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOS........this was not suicide, it was MURDER.

 

[DeDee]

DeDee No amount of money can bring back a dead person. But, in a civilized society....that is how it works. If the Zahau family sued for 500 hundred dollars, would you still be complaining? Would you be criticizing them for wasting the courts time? How much do you think a plaintiff should request in a wrongful death suit, just curious? I don't see this as a money issue, but as a pursuit of justice denied.

As for only Rebecca's fingerprints being found on the door jamb, door knob, and knife....hmmmm that doesn't bother me, because she wasn't killed by a door jamb, door knob or knife.....Rebecca was strangled and hung. So you know what really interests me? The finding of "mixed D-N-A" on the rope....is far more interesting. I live in a glass house, so I'll be the first to say, "I find the lack of fingerprints about as irrelevant as the location of a pinging cell phone. Rebecca wasn't killed by a cell phone left in a hospital room, either."

Serpico's detailed summation of flaws in the investigation is spot-on:
INCOMPETENCE IS THE TIME HONORED WEAPON OF SABOTAGE.

DeDee No amount of money can bring back a dead person.

JSYK, I do not appreciate being patronized.

This wrongful death lawsuit could be for one dollar or ten billion dollars. I would feel the same because Zahau did tie herself up and went over the balcony nude on her own accord. I believe she [and Jonah] was into bondage as proven, imho, by her anime internet views prior to the hanging.

Now that I am thinking about it, I would have much more respect for the Zs if they were only asking for a dollar. Then, I would probably believe they truly are seeking justice and not unearned money.

OJ was found not guilty in his criminal trial; however, the Goldman's won the civil lawsuit. The difference is everyone and their brother knows OJ did it.

Rebecca wasn't killed by a cell phone left in a hospital room, either.

Wow. Someone actually believes RZ was killed by a cell phone?

I will not battle over the mixed DNA on the rope. I do not know how the rope may have been stored prior to usage. The fact remains that the lack of fingerprints, or any scintilla of evidence that points to an intruder, is nonexistent. Ignoring the facts does not change them.

moo and all that jazz

 

[MyBelle]

JSYK, I do not appreciate being patronized.

This wrongful death lawsuit could be for one dollar or ten billion dollars. I would feel the same because Zahau did tie herself up and went over the balcony nude on her own accord. I believe she [and Jonah] was into bondage as proven, imho, by her anime internet views prior to the hanging.

Now that I am thinking about it, I would have much more respect for the Zs if they were only asking for a dollar. Then, I would probably believe they truly are seeking justice and not unearned money.

OJ was found not guilty in his criminal trial; however, the Goldman's won the civil lawsuit. The difference is everyone and their brother knows OJ did it.



Wow. Someone actually believes RZ was killed by a cell phone?

I will not battle over the mixed DNA on the rope. I do not know how the rope may have been stored prior to usage. The fact remains that the lack of fingerprints, or any scintilla of evidence that points to an intruder, is nonexistent. Ignoring the facts does not change them.

moo and all that jazz

The big difference between the O.J. case and this one is that the ME didn't rule that Nicole and Ron's deaths were suicide. That's huge. I agree the totality of the evidence--and absence of evidence of anyone else--points to suicide. I think RZ was aware that law enforcement was opening an investigation into Max's fall. I can only imagine the despair that would bring her to suicide whether she was at fault or not. Plus, Max's dad may have been distraught with her and wanted to end the relationship. We simply don't know. The details of her last moments are so mystifying in Rebecca's case because some of it is difficult to imagine as even possible. How did she go off that balcony? But I think this will be just like Marilyn Monroe and we'll never really know whether it was murder or suicide.

It did not help Rebecca's family's position to early-on go public with their accusations of murder or to accuse law enforcement of being politically motivated. That was very foolish because the public is very supportive of our law enforcement system and our justice system. Officials are elected. And they employ PR people to protect their image. I'm a huge fan of law enforcement but individuals do go off the rails. But not all of them at the same time. I don't blame the family for doing what they did, I blame their attorney then and I blame their attorney now. I think the attorneys are exploiting Rebecca's family's still very raw grief over losing her. May she and Maxie rest in peace.

JMO

 

[Quester]

Just curious ... was PP at Chief S's retirement dinner/events? TIA

Were they/are they buds? TIA

 

[Quester]

Did crime scene photos include pictures from the master bedroom/bathroom/shower areas? TIA

And photos from the stairway landing where that small carpet was located in the LE released photo? TIA

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Wish I could thank this 500 times. Healthy debate is stifled if not smothered on this case. The irony is that lively discussions can only create more interest to the "cause".

:blowkiss: I thank you 501 times, MaybeNotToday. Here's to lively discussions! :rollercoaster:

 

[LuckyLucy2]

DeDee, I believe the punctures on Rebecca's back are from the thorns on the two bushes under the balcony. IMO, she would have brushed those several times in a swinging motion. Both of those bushes have thorns that "seem to be paired and separated".

 

[kittychi]

DeDee, I believe the punctures on Rebecca's back are from the thorns on the two bushes under the balcony. IMO, she would have brushed those several times in a swinging motion. Both of those bushes have thorns that "seem to be paired and separated".

View attachment 56887

The thing is, there should be no "I believe they came from ____," "they likely came from ____," etc. We/the family should KNOW where they came from. The punctures are significant enough that it should have been proven where they came from. Investigators should have looked for blood/marks on thorns to verify that's where they came from. If not from those, they should have searched other areas on the grounds for an answer. They should also have verified where the dirt on her feet came from. Instead its all this "probably" "we believe" "likely" stuff that was never fully investigated.

OR...did initial investigations include those things and they were discarded and/or ignored later on?

This case has always lacked key answers for this family. I hope they get some peace soon so their memory of Rebecca can rest.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The thing is, there should be no "I believe they came from ____," "they likely came from ____," etc. We/the family should KNOW where they came from. The punctures are significant enough that it should have been proven where they came from. Investigators should have looked for blood/marks on thorns to verify that's where they came from. If not from those, they should have searched other areas on the grounds for an answer. They should also have verified where the dirt on her feet came from. Instead its all this "probably" "we believe" "likely" stuff that was never fully investigated.

OR...did initial investigations include those things and they were discarded and/or ignored later on?

This case has always lacked key answers for this family. I hope they get some peace soon so their memory of Rebecca can rest.

IMO, Anne Bremner did a great disservice to the Zahaus, and advised them to go to the media - even before the investigation was finished - to say that it was not a suicide.

07.27.11
Meanwhile, Zahau’s sister has told reporters she doesn’t believe her sister would have taken her own life. “It was not a suicide,” she said. “Because I know my sister.”

Phyllis Manno, the aunt of Zahau’s ex-husband, agrees with Zahau-Loehner. “I don’t think she did it either,” she told The Daily Beast. “That’s all I am saying.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ebecca-zahau-incident-remains-mysterious.html

Meanwhile, Zahau’s sister has told reporters she doesn’t believe her sister would have taken her own life. “It was not a suicide,” she said. “Because I know my sister.”

August 14, 2011 - "Obviously the investigation is not complete yet, but as far as what I know about my sister, my sister did not commit a suicide," Zahau's sister, Mary Zahau-Loehner said in a statement to San Diego station KFMB-TV.

In the same article, "I'm hopeful that the evidence is going to go ahead and tell us the story," San Diego County Sheriff's Sgt. Roy Frank told HuffPost Crime, adding that a toxicology report may shed some light on the exact nature of Zahau's dramatic death. "I think it's more weeks than days, but we're hopeful that we can get it done as quickly as possible."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/rebecca-zahau-buried-jonah-shacknai_n_908773.html


As badly as I feel for the Zahaus, I do believe they would do almost anything to not believe their precious Rebecca took her own life, and I believe Anne Bremner exploited that in the hopes of making big money and more press for herself.

When someone is so far into denial, they will believe anything - no matter how far-fetched - in order to avoid seeing the truth.

MOO.

 

[Mr Spock]

The big difference between the O.J. case and this one is that the ME didn't rule that Nicole and Ron's deaths were suicide. That's huge. I agree the totality of the evidence--and absence of evidence of anyone else--points to suicide. I think RZ was aware that law enforcement was opening an investigation into Max's fall. I can only imagine the despair that would bring her to suicide whether she was at fault or not. Plus, Max's dad may have been distraught with her and wanted to end the relationship. We simply don't know. The details of her last moments are so mystifying in Rebecca's case because some of it is difficult to imagine as even possible. How did she go off that balcony? But I think this will be just like Marilyn Monroe and we'll never really know whether it was murder or suicide.

It did not help Rebecca's family's position to early-on go public with their accusations of murder or to accuse law enforcement of being politically motivated. That was very foolish because the public is very supportive of our law enforcement system and our justice system. Officials are elected. And they employ PR people to protect their image. I'm a huge fan of law enforcement but individuals do go off the rails. But not all of them at the same time. I don't blame the family for doing what they did, I blame their attorney then and I blame their attorney now. I think the attorneys are exploiting Rebecca's family's still very raw grief over losing her. May she and Maxie rest in peace.

JMO

The Zahaus were well within their right to be critical. Just like the Mcstay family was well within their right to be critical of SDSO during the investigation of their missing family members. SDSO were lazy/incompetent and the McStays were recently found murdered... Not alive and well, "vacationing" on the lam in Mexico (SDSO's version of events) . The SDSO has a major PR problem these days. The McStays have been very critical of SDSO calling them corrupt and incompetent.

 

[MyBelle]

The thing is, there should be no "I believe they came from ____," "they likely came from ____," etc. We/the family should KNOW where they came from. The punctures are significant enough that it should have been proven where they came from. Investigators should have looked for blood/marks on thorns to verify that's where they came from. If not from those, they should have searched other areas on the grounds for an answer. They should also have verified where the dirt on her feet came from. Instead its all this "probably" "we believe" "likely" stuff that was never fully investigated.

OR...did initial investigations include those things and they were discarded and/or ignored later on?

This case has always lacked key answers for this family. I hope they get some peace soon so their memory of Rebecca can rest.

Sometimes the answers aren't there to begin with. I think it is unrealistic to expect law enforcement officers to collect thorns for traces of blood. The marks on RZ's body did not kill her. I doubt police have checked the knife found with Robin Williams for blood.

In a suicide, nobody knows for sure exactly what happened. The idea that cops all are conspiring to work against families is unfair.
I think police do share much information with families but they can't force them to accept it.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The Zahaus were well within their right to be critical. Just like the Mcstay family was well within their right to be critical of SDSO during the investigation of their missing family members. SDSO were lazy/incompetent and the McStays were recently found murdered... Not alive and well, "vacationing" on the lam in Mexico (SDSO's version of events) . The SDSO has a major PR problem these days. The McStays have been very critical of SDSO calling them corrupt and incompetent.

Of course a family has a right to be critical. afaik, the McStay family went missing and did not bury themselves so the cases are not similar. Everyone has a right to criticize any government agency at any time. But good luck trying to sue that government agency or another party for a case that was officially ruled a suicide.

JMO

 

[Serpico]

Sometimes the answers aren't there to begin with. I think it is unrealistic to expect law enforcement officers to collect thorns for traces of blood. The marks on RZ's body did not kill her. I doubt police have checked the knife found with Robin Williams for blood.

In a suicide, nobody knows for sure exactly what happened. The idea that cops all are conspiring to work against families is unfair.
I think police do share much information with families but they can't force them to accept it.

JMO

The ME Lucas could've stated the numerous marks on back came from the bush but didn't....as Dr.Wecht said [ page 251 -Ann Rule book],"if
they came from her dangling on the rope and coming into contact with foliage, why weren't there similar abrasions to her arms, which were tied behind her back?

 

[Serpico]

Sometimes the answers aren't there to begin with. I think it is unrealistic to expect law enforcement officers to collect thorns for traces of blood. The marks on RZ's body did not kill her. I doubt police have checked the knife found with Robin Williams for blood.

In a suicide, nobody knows for sure exactly what happened. The idea that cops all are conspiring to work against families is unfair.
I think police do share much information with families but they can't force them to accept it.

JMO

Yes, and in this CASE the answers are manufactured to support Gore's Suicide theory......brash ME Lucas saying the estimated time of death was 3:00 am [ before he said between 1-3 am] at the phony Spt.2,2011 Press Conference so it would "fit" Gore's timeline.
ME Lucas doesn't mention Time Of Death in his AR. Also,ME Lucas explaining the 4 deep hemorrhages on RZ's scalp....Ann Rule book page 251....Dr.Lucas's summation had attributed the 4 mystery red areas as something that had happened when Adam Shacknai cut her down. WHERE AND WHEN DID ADAM DESCRIBE HIS FLIGHT TO THE LAWN AFTER SUPPOSEDLY CUTTING RZ DOWN?

 

[MyBelle]

The ME Lucas could've stated the numerous marks on back came from the bush but didn't....as Dr.Wecht said [ page 251 -Ann Rule book],"if
they came from her dangling on the rope and coming into contact with foliage, why weren't there similar abrasions to her arms, which were tied behind her back?

Expert opinions don't always agree. Quite a few cases where a jury rejected Dr. Wecht's analysis. He's a highly paid consultant. Whether the jury accepts it or not, he's paid the same so I take it with a grain of salt.

JMO