Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California

[kittychi]

Cynic, thank you so much for the excellent demonstration and illustrations of the tugboat hitch knot. Seeing the demonstration on the CPR dummy shows just how difficult it would have been for someone to tie that knot around their own neck. It's far too complicated and arcane for most people to know and pretty much impossible to yourself.
I always wondered why the only photos of the crime scene publicly released were those that didn't show the noose, only the t-shirt covering it.

ETA: It also explains why everyone at SDSO went to such great lengths to explain how the complicated wrist and ankle knots were tied. They didn't want to call attention to the noose knot, as all three would be impossible to explain. Reading the autopsy the other day, I noticed the ME provided almost no detail about the noose knot and instead referred to SDSO's description. Does anyone recall SDSO ever going into any detail about the noose knot?

BBM: No. And IIRC, that ME report was signed the day before or day of that pre-Labor Day Friday press conference.

Oh I bet that group celebrated when that was over with.

 

[*Lash*]

Hi all. I've never posted here, but I've been lurking the whole time. From the point I heard about Rebecca's hair being under the rope to now (blatant lies, ignored and investigated details) I believed this was murder. I posted at Patch, until it became useless. So, why now? I thought it was important to acknowledge that there are many of us watching and hoping for justice for Rebecca. I have nothing to add but support to the Zahau family!

Welcome BBL! Or is it aka Lash? Hehe, NOT! Some sleuthers have tried to claim we're the same poster on other boards. You and I know that is all just a silly, silly game. I've never posted on the Patch. Glad to have you aboard WS! Don't let the vigorous or what I call passionate debate hold you back. Justice for Rebecca!

 

[kittychi]

I think that point was made regarding NR's lengthy interview and all of those interesting tidbits that she put out there.

[Respectfully snipped]

NR said that she looked at the gate, but didn't touch it, well as we have all been told so many times, no one's DNA was apparently in that house except for RZ's so of course, NR didn't touch the gate. Ok, got it.

NR spoke at length about how shocked she was that RZ didn't speak to her more, didn't tell her more. Well, perhaps that was because of the animosity RZ felt emanating from the woman. The animosity is quite clear in NR's recorded interview that was done some months later, I wonder how acute and frightening it must have been to be in the car with NR while she was demanding answers from RZ.

NR she spent the day being traumatized visiting poor MS. Here, I can actually empathize and emphatically state that she must have been exhausted and overwrought. How awful to have seen that poor little boy like that. Her heart I am sure was broken for her nephew and her sister. I am not discounting that in anyway. However, she decided to walk over to Spreckels, even though she had JS' car and talk to RZ when her text message wasn't answered promptly. Also there is the time discrepancy between her bill and RZ's.

So NR marched right over there to get the answers she wanted. She must have been in quite a state. While NR is looking through the gate and not touching it she notices the light on in the hanging room. It's that amazing how it all worked out?

In one two hour interview she was able to give all of this information that just proved that she couldn't have had a thing to do with it. How convenient.

There are more things to point out but while I'm not trying to be snarky, I do realize my sarcasm level has gone up.

Sorry, but the world's worst PR person couldn't have given such a tell-tale interview while trying to spin things in their favor.

ALWAYS MOO

1st BBM: This mention of not touching the gate has always been a puzzle for me. Why make a point of that?
Does she know that someone else touched the gate? (Adam?) Did they even check the gait for DNA?

 

[Serpico]

ME Investigator Dana Gary arrived at Spreckels with the brash ME Lucas at 7:14 pm [ 8/13/11] and stayed 1 hour and 45 minutes. ...5 weeks
later wrote a very short Narrative Investigative Report found in Autopsy Report:

County ME Investigator - Dana Gary
---------------------------------------------
*arrived at 7:14 pm - July 13,2011

*Guest house had 2 bedrooms . One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women's clothing on
the floor, make up swipes on the dresser and a glass with clear liquid on the night stand. What I find troubling besides the HOURS it took Gary/Lucas to arrive at the Scene was after 7:14 pm that night there were still UNKNOWN women's clothes on the bedroom floor of the POI
who was the only KNOWN person inside the Spreckels ground the night before.

*Dana Gary at the bottom of this Report states:For a more complete scene description , please refer to Deputy ME Lucas' Autopsy Report.
Deputy ME Lucas' Scene Notes doesn't mention anything from the Guest House and signed his AR AFTER the phony Gore 9/2/11 Press Conference.
The reason I said AFTER....Lucas refers to the EDITED rope video demonstration.

*Ann Rule's book - pages 222-223. Tsuida assigned Forensic Evidence Technician Denys Williams to lift as many finger and palm prints among other things Williams recorded and bagged.
Since Adam Shacknai was the only other person staying in his brother's estate on Tuesday night, his room in the guest house was also photographed and searched for any possible evidence.
Moving to the guest house, Williams took men's clothing from the FLOOR of the south master bedroom there: blue jeans, boxer briefs, a black
T-shirt, and black socks.
The FACT that ME Investigator Dana Gary never mentioned the MEN's clothing after 7:14 pm Tuesday night then it's probable that Forensic
Evidence Technician Williams picked up the MEN's clothes at some time before Gary arrived. The Question for Forensic Evidence Technician Denys Williams.....why were there still a "few pieces of women's clothing" on the floor by the time ME Investigator Gary arrived later that night?

 

[kittychi]

IMHO, Rebecca first tied the noose, then put it over her head. That's the same way she did her wrists - tied the loops, the put her hands behind her back, and put it on - leaving the loose end in her hand.

SDSO did not go "to such great lengths to explain how the complicated wrist and ankle knots were tied." In fact, it is the opposite:

"How did she learn these complex knots?

We don’t believe she did. These knots were not as complex as they have been made out to be, which is what we discovered when we attempted to recreate the knots on Rebecca’s wrists. Simply stated, this is one of those questions which will most likely never be answered with any certainty."

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

Okay, you have an opinion on how Rebecca first tied the noose, then put it over her head. Wrists, okay.

1. How about the ankles?

2. Keeping in mind that in your scenario, after the tying up of herself, she then had to hop to the balcony and flip herself over it, what is your opinion on how Rebecca tied the tugboat hitch and then gagged herself with the tee shirt?

 

[inthedark14]

Since there was no sound on that SDSO video, we have no idea if someone was coaching the SDSO employee doing the recreation of the knot tying. We also don't know if she had been prepped beforehand or practiced. We also don't know if the video had been edited in any way.

As kittychi says above even if the knots were exactly the same as the SDSO employee did (I don't think so MOO) there is that little problem of binding the feet and getting hoping all over the room and light turning off and door closing to do. Oh and not leaving any dirty foot prints in the light carpet and no fibers from the rope either.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[Betty P]

The tugboat hitch knot would be impossible to tie without having something to loop it around. The loops have to be progressively larger and the rope must be folded back and looped in the opposie direction, twice. Cynic's own links verify that its an old, rarely used hitch knot that most experienced seamen today have never seen, let alone used.

Its a bizarre, highly unlikely choice for anyone preparing to commit suicide by hanging. Becky would not have known how to tie such a knot and attorneys for the accused willhave a difficult time convincing a jury otherwise.

For those who claim Becky knew how to tie complex nautical knots, who would have taught them to her? How do you know she would have that highly specialized skill?

 

[kittychi]

But very easy to say that if you are planning on committing suicide and setting Dina up to make it look like she murdered you.

How did she make it look like Dina murdered her?

Don't you mean she set it up to look like Adam murdered her? With the tugboat hitch and all? Do you think she may have also hugged Adam and asked him to hold the cell phone in order to pass off his DNA too?

You did say you believe Rebecca was trying to set up Dina and Nina this way.

 

[cynic]

Seeing the demonstration on the CPR dummy shows just how difficult it would have been for someone to tie that knot around their own neck. It's far too complicated and arcane for most people to know and pretty much impossible to yourself.

Arcane - perfect word.

Its a bizarre, highly unlikely choice for anyone preparing to commit suicide by hanging. Becky would not have known how to tie such a knot and attorneys for the accused willhave a difficult time convincing a jury otherwise.

ITA

There is definitely a difference between the types of knots that someone who worked on a boat professionally and commercially would know as opposed to someone using boats recreationally.
A Google search for essential knots for boaters, will not lead to the tugboat hitch.
The reason is that the tugboat hitch, although used for tying off a boat, is used for tying off to a bollard. (Bollards: These are the things that look like short metal mushrooms. You can find them on docks and large ships and almost never on smaller vessels.)
http://maritime.about.com/od/Glossary/g/Cleats-Chocks-Bits-And-Bollards-Securing-Your-Vessel.htm
Cleats are by far the most common tie-off points in recreational/public dock usage.
This is why the cleat hitch is featured in every list of “must know” knots for recreational boaters.
There are cleats all over the deck of a sailboat, and all over the dock–there are cleats just about everywhere. They are what you tie your boat to when you dock, what you tie the dinghy to while you’re sailing, and sometimes what you stub your toe on when you’re moving around in the dark. If you ever want to get off the boat, you’ll need to be able to secure your dock lines to a cleat.
http://www.asa.com/social_media/2012/06/27/fit-tied-essential-sailing-knots/

A video featuring “must know” boating knots is below. The very first knot in the video is the cleat hitch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01paDemDYrU

Must Know Knots for Boaters

• Learn How to Tie 5 Common Boating Knots:

Cleat Hitch
The Cleat Hitch is one of the most widely utilized knots boaters use to tie their watercraft to a static dock, floating dock or boat lift. The knot is designed to easily tie and untie with superior strength to hold watercrafts securely.
Bowline Knot
Anchor Bend
Clove Hitch
Figure Eight Knot
http://www.jetdock.com/knowledge-center/how-to-tie-5-common-boating-knots.asp

• Essential Sailing Knots

1. Bowline
2. Figure-8 Knot
3. Square Knot (also known as Reef Knot)
5. Round Turn and Two Half-Hitches
6. Cleat Hitch
http://www.asa.com/social_media/2012/06/27/fit-tied-essential-sailing-knots/

• Sailing Knots:

Bowline
Round Turn and two half hitches
Cleat hitch
Rolling Hitch
Sheet Bend
Square Knot
Figure Eight
Trucker's Hitch
Clove Hitch
http://www.schoolofsailing.net/sailing-knots.html

• Seven Essential Knots for Sailors:

Bowline
Stopper Knot
Clove Hitch
Sheet Bend
Two Half Hitches
Rolling Hitch
Cleat Hitch
http://www.sailmagazine.com/boatworks/seven-essential-knots-sailors

• 5 Essential Sailing Knots:

Reef Knot
Bowline
Figure of Eight
Sheet Bend
Cleat Hitch
http://www.chatham.co.uk/blog/five-essential-sailing-knots

• BOATING KNOTS:

Two Half Hitches
Bowline
Figure Eight
Square Knot
Anchor Bend
Clove Hitch
Cleat Hitch
http://www.tryc.com/uploads/3/1/0/0/3100679/boating_knots.pdf

 

[OC Sunshine]

Since there was no sound on that SDSO video, we have no idea if someone was coaching the SDSO employee doing the recreation of the knot tying. We also don't know if she had been prepped beforehand or practiced. We also don't know if the video had been edited in any way.

As kittychi says above even if the knots were exactly the same as the SDSO employee did (I don't think so MOO) there is that little problem of binding the feet and getting hoping all over the room and light turning off and door closing to do. Oh and not leaving any dirty foot prints in the light carpet and no fibers from the rope either.

ALWAYS MOO

I hope the employee is interviewed also. Or maybe they'll have her do a demonstration in court.

 

[IQuestion]

How did she make it look like Dina murdered her?

Don't you mean she set it up to look like Adam murdered her? With the tugboat hitch and all? Do you think she may have also hugged Adam and asked him to hold the cell phone in order to pass off his DNA too?

You did say you believe Rebecca was trying to set up Dina and Nina this way.

As always thank you for your conributions KITTYCHI Since one of our posters proffered the theory Rebecca was "setting up a particular individual" for murder, while actually planning her own suicide. I thought, how ironic....Rebecca also had the power to make "an entire family move out of the guest house, too" in plotting this masterful scheme? I don't think so.
And, Rebecca with her incredible foresight was also able to know in advance DS would not have an alibi, other than a pinging cell phone?
What has bothered me is the "blood drops"....assuming they were menstrual, if at any time Rebecca sat down, then blood would be on the surface of the item she sat on....and it wouldn't be drops...IT WOULD BE SMEARS. (this is so hard to type/explain to anyone who hasn't had a menstual cycle, so I beg your understanding) If one is sitting down, the blood does not run down your thigh, to your toes. The blood runs to your lower buttocks area.
Hey CYNIC, I think I might need you to illustrate my point, ok? Sitting down, pour some liquid below the zipper area of your jeans, which direction does it flow? Now, stand up and pour the liquid in the same area, and it flows down your thighs and the direction of your toes. If Rebecca had done all this rope cutting and tying, wouldn't she have to sit down at some point? Wouldn't there be "smeared" blood evidence on a surface she sat on, such as a chair or on the floor? I have seen a lot of blood evidence and there is a difference between smears, splatters and drops. Based on the info provided....the blood evidence doesn't seem complete.
Also Female underwear is marketed in childrens/womens sizes.....there is no marketing for "teen sizes" so how would anyone know the underwear was specifically purchased for a teen?

 

[*Lash*]

You would have to ask Sheriff Gore why he didn't choose other words. But I read that to mean they were tested. MOO.

I would like to ask Sheriff Gore why he chose to tell the public, (1) Adam passed a polygraph when in fact the test results were inconclusive and the examiner recommended a second test. (2) We have both Dina and Jonah on surveillance tape, when in fact Dina was not seen on video. One lie, two lies...At some point it becomes only logical to question the alleged facts coming from this persons mouth. Imo.

 

[*Lash*]

The menstrual blood and the panties having nothing to do with each other. The blood was tested, the panties were not and in my opinion, its because it was obvious they were not Rebecca's. MOO.

You're correct. The panties were not tested. Therefore there is no way to scientifically conclude the blood and panties had nothing to do with each other. In my opinion, 'obvious' is a useless word in an item that could be and should have been forensically tested.

 

[Jade]

The tugboat hitch knot would be impossible to tie without having something to loop it around. The loops have to be progressively larger and the rope must be folded back and looped in the opposie direction, twice. Cynic's own links verify that its an old, rarely used hitch knot that most experienced seamen today have never seen, let alone used.

Its a bizarre, highly unlikely choice for anyone preparing to commit suicide by hanging. Becky would not have known how to tie such a knot and attorneys for the accused willhave a difficult time convincing a jury otherwise.

For those who claim Becky knew how to tie complex nautical knots, who would have taught them to her? How do you know she would have that highly specialized skill?

BBM

May I ask how you know that Rebecca would not know how to tie those knots?

And a link to that fact so I can read also?

I disagree with those points as narrow and over stated especially since RZ was not an American by birth.

She may have learned the knots as a child in her country of origin.

I think that RZ was an intelligent woman capable of learning and remembering how to tie knots.

Although I disagree they require skill beyond the average person’s ability.

If you are casting an eye at AS I hear you but why would D or N know the knots if it is presumed RZ wouldn’t or couldn’t tie them?

But since AS is an experienced seamen and you say they don’t know this knot then who are you accusing?

p.s. I don’t see that you are a verified insider and you may just be speculating but they are assertive statements conflicting of my general knowledge of people and knots worldwide so curious of your sources.

Bollards are extremely common especially at older areas.

IMO

 

[kittychi]

I realize this requires a link to confirm, and I have been looking for it.

IIRC Dina and Nina's father was an avid yachtsman. They were around the water and around boats their entire life.

It seems I read this in their father's obituary, which I cannot find at the moment. Will keep searching. Does this ring a bell for anyone else?

 

[IQuestion]

Morning JADE... Mind if I interject "published info"..... only 2 of the 3 families mentioned has a lot of sailing experience.
Either a person has knot tying experience, or they don't.....it doesn't matter where you were born, "American by birth", country of origin or being a "verified insider."
My brother wasn't born in the U.S. Does that mean he acquired some savant knotting skills that no one else ever noticed or used until he was 30 years old?
JADE perhaps I have misunderstood your post...but it seems as if you want the reader to think or are implying Rebecca would have knotting skills equivalent to those who have sailed for over 30 years? (I am not a verified insider, it is not required to give an opinion here.)

 

[IQuestion]

I realize this requires a link to confirm, and I have been looking for it.

IIRC Dina and Nina's father was an avid yachtsman. They were around the water and around boats their entire life.

It seems I read this in their father's obituary, which I cannot find at the moment. Will keep searching. Does this ring a bell for anyone else?

KITTICHI Check your pm's, IQ

 

[Betty P]

BBM

May I ask how you know that Rebecca would not know how to tie those knots?

And a link to that fact so I can read also?

I disagree with those points as narrow and over stated especially since RZ was not an American by birth.

She may have learned the knots as a child in her country of origin.

I think that RZ was an intelligent woman capable of learning and remembering how to tie knots.

Although I disagree they require skill beyond the average person’s ability.

If you are casting an eye at AS I hear you but why would D or N know the knots if it is presumed RZ wouldn’t or couldn’t tie them?

But since AS is an experienced seamen and you say they don’t know this knot then who are you accusing?

p.s. I don’t see that you are a verified insider and you may just be speculating but they are assertive statements conflicting of my general knowledge of people and knots worldwide so curious of your sources.

Bollards are extremely common especially at older areas.

IMO

I'm sure you're aware it's impossible to prove a negative statement, ie its impossible to prove that Becky didn't know how to tie a complex, rarely used nautical knot. That's why I'm asking how and who would have taught her how to tie a tugboat hitch knot.

Becky was born and raised primarily in a mountain village in Burma

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Rebecca_Zahau

Later, her family moved to Nepal, then Germany before moving to the US. After moving to the US, she lived primarily in Arizona. None of these areas seems a likely place where Becky would have met someone from a nautical transportation profession who could have taught her proficiency in tying specialized nautical knots. In addition, she worked in the health care profession, unlikely to require the use of tugboat hitch knots. While her fiancé, JS, had a boat in Coronado, Cynic's prior post shows that none of the knots used to tie up Becky are commonly taught or used by amateur recreational boaters.

OTOH, the last person to see her alive, who was present at the death scene, was a worker on tugboats, a profession he'd worked in for many years. AS was not only an expert at tying tugboat hitch and many other nautical knots, he also failed to pass a polygraph exam about Becky's death.

If you need proof of AS's profession, a quick search of this forum or google will provide verification.

Hope this helps clarify things for you.

ETA At this point, I'm not speculating as to whether DR or her twin had sufficient experience to tie these knots. For now, I'm applying Occams Razor to speculate that the most likely person to have tied those knots was AS. The complexity and rarity of the tugboat hitch knot, among other evidence, rules out suicide, IMO.

 

[time]

There are plenty of suicides that detectives believe were made to be murder. I'll be happy to add links, if you'd like.

I think Rebecca tried to make it look like Dina murdered her, but fingerprints and DNA and the fact that Dina was with Max all night (according to Ann Rule), defeated that plan. There is too much physical evidence outweighing the murder theory.

Yes, I would like to see links.

And, I do not remember any evidence of Dina being at the hospital all night. I do not see any evidence this was a suicide actually.

 

[Carioca]

Just as Cynic has stated previously, the Tugboat Hitch requires 3 wraps around a bollard, in this case a neck.

IMO, RZ's murderer stood behind her, NOT facing her, and looking down at the back of RZ's head while she was seated with her legs taped to the wicker chair. Thus the knot began with the rope under her chin rather than behind her neck.

Looking at Cynic's excellent illustration of the damage to RZ's neck as per the AR (Illustration 1), IMO the X criss cross furrows on the back of her neck well below the ligature furrows that angle upwards towards the ligature knot were a result of the first 2 tugboat hitch loops.

Illustration 1: Cynic's interpretation of the AR. Thank you, Cynic!

The final (3rd) rope loop/wrap and knot (the ligature) would then be yanked upwards with the snap of the 9 ft drop. The first 2 rope loops/wraps remain at neck level, as illustrated in Cynic’s video (Illustration 2).

Illustration 2. Stop frame from Cynic's excellent Tugboat Hitch video. Again, many thanks, Cynic!

When tying the Tugboat Hitch around my own neck, front to back, rather than back to front, then flipping the rope to create the double hitch knot, the two loops remain in place, horizontally across my neck, even after applying force on the knot and tightening the knot by pulling upwards. They do NOT move upward with the knot.

Note: when creating the two loops directly below my ear, then looping the third time and applying the double hitch, the two original loops crossed over each other behind my neck.

This would also explain the X criss cross at the back of the neck as reported in the AR as well (see Illustration 3). The 2 crossed-over loops being BELOW the knot/ligature furrow would also explain the 1-1/2 x 1-1/4 inch group of apparent petechiae in that area, which were a result of the pressure imposed by the 2 stationary loops in the tugboat hitch knot.

Illustration 3: The furrows that would result from a Tugboat Hitch used in hanging IMO

Tying the rope OVER RZ’s long hair, rather than directly on her skin, was a clever move as it helped “soften” the continuity of the furrows, thus resulting in irregularities and gaps in the furrows. This scenario fits the wounds as documented in the autopsy report.

Among evidence items the Zahau family is suing Gore and the SD county is the video of the autopsy. Why has the autopsy video been withheld? I would imagine (presume?) the family received autopsy photos of some nature or other. If not, I once again would presume the photos would be included in the evidence law suit. Quite simple to be selective and biased in selecting what to photograph, whereas a video is/should be continuous. Any gaps in the video would be beyond suspect.

I am an experienced rock climber. I can make knots in my sleep. I grew up sailing. I had never seen the Tugboat Hitch before, and even with Cynic's excellent video and online resources, it took me several hours to figure this one out, primarily since i had to keep starting over and adding more and more rope in order to have enough to add the double hitch at the end, and also to leave an additional 6-1/4 inches of rope. The tugboat hitch requires more than double the amount of rope needed to make, for example, a simple hangman's noose.

IMO It is virtually impossible to make a tugboat hitch without a bollard. I tried. Doesn't happen.

IMO the use of a tugboat hitch rather than a simple hangman's noose is an enormous FLY IN THE OINTMENT for the defense. The video of the autopsy, when presented to the jury, will prove unequivocally that RZ did NOT and COULD NOT have inflicted this upon herself.