Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[Seattle1]

But it’s the Z family attorneys who have asserted this narrative to argue that she WASNT suicidal. This is coming from the family attorneys.


“It should also be noted that the emotional bond between Jonah Shacknai and Rebecca hadalready deteriorated by the time she was murdered to the point where she was considering leaving him and he was already dating the woman he would eventually marry. (Greer Decl., Ex. I, Mary Zahau- Loehner Depo. at pgs. 62:24-63:24; Ex. G, Dina Shacknai Depo. at 154:20-155:22). This information, which tends to undermine the perception that Rebecca and Jonah were still madly in love and the injury to Max was therefore so painful Rebecca was compelled to end her life, was not shared with the Sheriffs Department or the Medical Examiner.“

stmarysmead: Here's the rub - Greer waited until 2/16/18 (a week before trial) to shockingly (IMO), discount the relationship between JS and RZ for the very first time. Greer also told the court that his new theory (i.e., another woman) was never before shared with the Sheriffs Dept or the Medical Examiner. Never mind that up until last week, the WS Community held Dr Luber's word that JS was never happier and planning to propose to RZ.. Is it a gamble for Greer to use this as his argument against suicide? I think so but then I read the defenses Psych expert witness brief and I understand why Greer did it. Right or wrong, whether we believe it or not, Greer believes it's his best strategy to obtain justice for RZ.

 

[stmarysmead]

[/B]

stmarysmead: Here's the rub - Greer waited until 2/16/18 (a week before trial) to shockingly (IMO), discount the relationship between JS and RZ for the very first time. Greer also told the court that his new theory (i.e., another woman) was never before shared with the Sheriffs Dept or the Medical Examiner. Never mind that up until last week, the WS Community held Dr Luber's word that JS was never happier and planning to propose to RZ.. Is it a gamble for Greer to use this as his argument against suicide? I think so but then I read the defenses Psych expert witness brief and I understand why Greer did it. Right or wrong, whether we believe it or not, Greer believes it's his best strategy to obtain justice for RZ.

Thank you. But did RZ sister swear to this in her deposition?

 

[Betty P]

Hey Everyone,

Thank you for the great information and opinions you are offering.

Please remember the only one who is being accused based on the evidence is Adam.

Let's not accuse anyone else. Until there is evidence suggesting otherwise our focus is on the civil trial and Adam.

Good News. New York Times bestselling author, true crime writer, and former investigative reporter Caitlin Rother ( http://www.caitlinrother.com/ ) will be calling in at the end of each week to give us a wrapup as to what happened in court from her eyewitness perspective.

Yes, I will still keep asking (bugging) Keith Greer for updates as well and I'm certain when he has the time he will gladly do a quick interview

It's all good.

Thanks again everyone.
Tricia

Thanks, Tricia! That's great news. It will be very helpful to have a weekly report from Ms Rother. Local news media are doing an ok job of covering the trial, but sometimes details are left out or not covered. Looking forward to her reports.

 

[Seattle1]

Thank you. But did RZ sister swear to this in her deposition?

Stmarystead: RZ sister swore to a deteriorating relationship.

 

[stmarysmead]

Thanks to all of you that have answered my questions with civil and informative replies.

 

[Lilibet]

In addition, outside opinions about the RZ/JS relationship aren't evidence, they go to motive. Trying to establish motive is notoriously difficult. Imo, Greer has sufficient actual forensic evidence to prove murder.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Greer does not have to provide a motive, correct? I know that’s true in a murder trial, but not sure about a civil trial.

Next question: Does Greer have to prove that AS was the only person involved in RZ’s murder to win this case? Can the jury (individually or collectively) believe that others may have been or likely were involved in promoting, planning and/or participating in her murder but still reach a verdict against AS?

 

[*Lash*]

Day 7 of the civil trial for the wrongful death of Rebecca

By San Diego Union Tribune 3/12/18 - photo gallery

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...eath-rebecca-zahau-20180312-photogallery.html

 

[Imp]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Greer does not have to provide a motive, correct? I know that’s true in a murder trial, but not sure about a civil trial.

Next question: Does Greer have to prove that AS was the only person involved in RZ’s murder to win this case? Can the jury (individually or collectively) believe that others may have been or likely were involved in promoting, planning and/or participating in her murder but still reach a verdict against AS?

Correct, Greer doesn't have to prove a motive. Sorry for my muddled post earlier. I was actually referring to the defense attempting to establish a motive for RZ to commit suicide, because imo, at this point they don't have much. The manner in which she was found (esp. with the ropes from the hogtie visible) + the knife handle evidence + handwriting evidence + the lack of fingerprints/DNA pointing to gloves and/or things being wiped down by the accused + the accused as presumably the only other person on the property, makes a very compelling case for murder, imo.

I can't answer your second question. What concerns me, however, is that if the jury believes she was murdered, but doesn't believe Greer adequately proved AS did it ... then what?

 

[Lilibet]

Correct, Greer doesn't have to prove a motive. Sorry for my muddled post earlier. I was actually referring to the defense attempting to establish a motive for RZ to commit suicide, because imo, at this point they don't have much. The manner in which she was found (esp. with the ropes from the hogtie visible) + the knife handle evidence + handwriting evidence + the lack of fingerprints/DNA pointing to gloves and/or things being wiped down by the accused + the accused as presumably the only other person on the property, makes a very compelling case for murder, imo.

I can't answer your second question. What concerns me, however, is that if the jury believes she was murdered, but doesn't believe Greer adequately proved AS did it ... then what?

Your post was fine. I was actually just using it as a place to ask my question about proving motive and I didn’t make that clear.

I assume that if Greer doesn’t adequately prove that AS did it, even if the jury believes RZ was murdered, he would lose the case. That’s why I wondered if he has to prove that AS alone did it, or can the jury suspect that others were involved and still find in RZ’s family’s favor. I guess my bias is showing because I don’t think AS was acting without at least some input. JMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Imp]

Tricia interview- :tyou:

Author Caitlin Rother/Rebecca Zahau Civil Trial
Author Caitlin Rother/ Rebecca Zahau Civil Tria
We are introduced to a wonderful former reporter and now true crime author Caitlin Rother. Ms. Rother gives us her unique perspective of the civil trial in the death of Rebecca Zahau. Was it suicide or murder?

https://soundcloud.com/tricia-arrington-griffith/author-caitlin-rother-rebecca-zahau-civil-trial

I'm listening to this right now and Caitlin Rother is talking about Adam's high-powered defense team and how "they don't mess around." "They've pulled people in from across the country to sit at that defense table."

She says based on their opening statement and the questions they're asking plaintiffs' witnesses, it's pretty clear their angle is that there's no evidence to prove Adam was involved. She says it's also pretty clear they plan to paint Rebecca as "an impulsive and reckless person who was having affairs while she was married" ... "she was arrested for shoplifting" ... "she was very obsessive about her weight and also about what she ate and that she seemed to be losing weight lately." Rother then notes that when Greer played the 9-1-1- call by XS when Max fell, you could hear Rebecca and "how distraught she was when that little boy fell."

(This is interesting to me, because Rother seems to feel, or maybe I should say she's pointing out that Rebecca's crying or wailing in the background on the 9-1-1 tape somehow bolsters, or will be used to bolster the defense's argument about RZ's "impulsive and reckless" nature.)

Rother also says the defense will be calling SDSO employees to make the point it was suicide.

So, fellow posters, I think we better buckle our seatbelts, because it seems we'll be hearing a lot of Rebecca bashing, and to add insult to injury, we'll be hearing a lot from that crack team of "death investigators" who did such a bang-up job driving hard and fast to their suicide conclusion.

I'm already ticked off and the defense isn't even at bat yet.

 

[K_Z]

DR also brought a WDS against Maxie's Dad, JS.

And that went sideways in a nanosecond from the very beginning.

She was strongly admonished by the judge in that case because she refused to participate in a timely legal manner.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Interesting. I'd love to see those docs.

I remember that--the "vigorous blue pencil" admonishment case.

Filed in Maricopa County, AZ, 7/16/2013. Here's a link to the docket. It was ultimately dismissed *with prejudice* on 11/6/2015. (Meaning, DS cannot sue JS again for Max's wrongful death.)

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2013-009289

Here's a link to the Minute Entries:

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.go...te=12/01/2015&submit=Retrieve+Minute+Entries#

This very old thread has some snips from some of the AZ case documents.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...-Death-Suit-filed-Nov-13-2013-in-California-3

 

[K_Z]

Day 7 of the civil trial for the wrongful death of Rebecca

By San Diego Union Tribune 3/12/18 - photo gallery

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...eath-rebecca-zahau-20180312-photogallery.html

Several of the captions on the pictures relate to defendant's attorney questioning Dr. CW about whether it's common to exhume a body for a television show. The plaintiffs had to know that would be asked in a fairly assertive manner, as a means to discredit his exam and all of his findings.

There is also a caption about the first 2 pages of Dr. CW's autopsy being "missing"? (Along with a pic of him with his hand to his face, and that he was "agitated" by the questioning.

Was anyone in court today who can elaborate on Dr. CW's testimony? Very interested to hear more.

 

[Imp]

This is from Tricia's latest (3.7.18) interview with Mr. Greer, with regard to the hogtying:

“If you see her lying on the ground in the autopsy pictures, and you look at the ropes tying her ankles, there’s about a 10 inch piece of rope left over. And then if you go to the hands … coming out of the hand knots heading towards the feet there’s a piece of rope about 28 inches long. You add those 2 ropes together and it’s the exact distance between her hands and her ankles with her knees bent in a hogtie position.” ~ Keith Greer


I'm thinking this quote should be my signature line.

 

[coastal]

Today, Monday, 3/12/2018, when I googled “Rebecca Zahau” I got ”about 189,000 results (in) (0.43 seconds) “. The only one I haven’t read, at the San Diego Union-Tribune and posted “1 hour ago,” is behind a paywall.

A paywall, for my local paper? Since when?
What are the odds?

Also, of the remaining 188,999 google results, two are dated March 5, 2018, but the rest have dates earlier than March 5, 2018.

I’m off to try a different search engine.

Boo, Google!

Edited to add: Boo, San Diego Union-Tribune:

Unlock this bonus FREE article when you sign up for the Essential California newsletter DAY 7 OF THE CIVIL TRIAL FOR THE WRONGFUL DEATH OF REBECCA ZAHAU

Wait. I gave it my e-mail address got the FREE bonus article; I'll read it and report back, K_Z.

Edited to add: I only got the same photos of the courtroom today, that K_Z linked above.

 

[cynic]

Does Greer have to prove that AS was the only person involved in RZ’s murder to win this case? Can the jury (individually or collectively) believe that others may have been or likely were involved in promoting, planning and/or participating in her murder but still reach a verdict against AS?

The jury will be instructed to deliberate based solely on the evidence presented during trial. Keith Greer will be presenting evidence with the sole purpose of showing that Adam is responsible for Rebecca’s death.
As he will not be suggesting Adam acted at the behest of someone else or present evidence to imply other people may have aided Adam, it would be unlikely that any of the jurors would entertain the notion of another possible party.
Nor would the jury be led down that path by the defense who will not be presenting any such idea. Their focus will be two-fold. Rebecca committed suicide and even if you don’t believe she committed suicide, the plaintiffs have not presented sufficient evidence to show that Adam was responsible.

What follows is what Keith Greer is attempting to prove by a preponderance of the evidence. That what is stated below is more likely than the premise that Rebecca committed suicide.
"On or about July 13, 2011, Defendant ADAM SHACKNAI intentionally, willfully, wantonly and maliciously caused physical harm to REBECCA by stalking, attacking, choking, gaging, binding, and hanging her at the Premises.
Each of the acts alleged herein were done with a wanton, reckless disregard for the rights of the DECEDENT and with the full knowledge that she would die as a result of said acts.
As a result of Defendant’s intentional, reckless, wanton and unlawful conduct, REBECCA sustained severe and serious injury to her person, which was the sole cause of her death.
By the performing the acts and/or omissions set forth above, Defendant ADAM SHACKNAI wrongfully and proximately caused the death of REBECCA."

 

[Mica]

Today, Monday, 3/12/2018, when I googled “Rebecca Zahau” I got ”about 189,000 results (in) (0.43 seconds) “. The only one I haven’t read, at the San Diego Union-Tribune and posted “1 hour ago,” is behind a paywall.

A paywall, for my local paper? Since when?
What are the odds?

Also, of the remaining 188,999 google results, two are dated March 5, 2018, but the rest have dates earlier than March 5, 2018.

I’m off to try a different search engine.

Boo, Google!

Edited to add: Boo, San Diego Union-Tribune:

Unlock this bonus FREE article when you sign up for the Essential California newsletter DAY 7 OF THE CIVIL TRIAL FOR THE WRONGFUL DEATH OF REBECCA ZAHAU

Wait. I gave it my e-mail address got the FREE bonus article; I'll read it and report back, K_Z.

Edited to add: I only got the same photos of the courtroom today, that K_Z linked above.

I can’t read the article at the San Diego Union Tribune either. I can’t even see the photo gallery. I’m using the Safari browser. This is the message I get:

You've reached your monthly free article limit.
To continue reading, subscribe now for unlimited access.

 

[Emi]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...eath-rebecca-zahau-20180312-photogallery.html here is the photogallery

 

[Mica]

I went on my desktop and can now read the article.


Well-known pathologist testifies in trial that Zahau was strangled

>>snip

Initially, Wecht determined that Zahau’s cause of death was asphyxiation due to hanging, and her manner of death to be “undetermined.” When he went on the Dr. Phil show, he said he was strongly leaning toward the death being a homicide.

But when asked to review those findings for the wrongful death suit, and after doing additional research, the pathologist took a stronger stance — that Zahau had been killed.

Wecht discussed several of his autopsy findings to support that conclusion.

<modsnip>


http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-pathologist-20180312-story.html

 

[Emi]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-pathologist-20180312-story.html

&#8220;In my opinion, Rebecca Zahau&#8217;s death was a homicide,&#8221; he said in San Diego Superior Court. &#8220;She was manually strangled and it was set up to look like a suicidal hanging.&#8221;

The Zahau family filed the lawsuit after sheriff&#8217;s homicide investigators and the Medical Examiner&#8217;s Office ruled the bizarre, July 13, 2011 death a suicide.

 

[Imp]

Here's what I did to read the article behind the paywall. I use Firefox on a MacBook Pro (laptop). Open the article from the link, then right click anywhere on the page and click View Page Info. When the box pops up, click on the Permissions tab. Scroll down to Set Cookies, uncheck the Default box, and click the Block option. Close the dialogue box and refresh the page.

These precise instructions probably won't work on another browser. I've been using Firefox for years.