WV WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

[Carnifax]

I agree it would be fascinating to see the site dug up BUT the house is in private hands and I have no idea how excited they would be to have someone come in and dig up their yard. Furthermore, the site was compromised the minute the FD left the scene that day. Since the site was unsecured, anything could have happened. Bodies could have been added or removed.

For the record, Im not sure how much validity I place on some of these "facts" that surround this case. For instance, if Jennie (Mother) was alseep on the ground floor, how did she hear a noise that "sounded like something hitting the roof" to the point that it woke her up, while 5 kids were asleep upstairs asleep directly under the roof who were not awakened?

What bothers me (well, one thing) is the time line around Fire Chief Morris "burying" the tissue he found. When did he do it? I recently read that he may have done it because he felt guilty about seeing tissue in the fire and then denying it to the family that day. He subsequently went back and planted the tissue (beef liver if you believe it). When did he do it? He could have theoretically done it in the week before George backfilled the site but still that means he would have had to sneak back and place the box without attracting attention and then remember where he placed it. Also, if he was doing this as an alibi, why place the tissue in a wooden box? Unless he intended to remove it from the box but someone surprised him and he was forced to just toss the box in.

 

[Bob1959]

it wasn't intended as an alibi. it was intended as a message. Now that everything you love is gone, you eat liver.

also, it appears now that an excavation is very unlikely. the site of the original house has been paved over.

 

[Carnifax]

Ok, let's say the liver was a message. Why go through the relative hassle, trouble, exposure, risk of burying it? Why not just toss it on the doorstep? Furthermore, it this was a nefarious plot, are you sure you want to involve Morris any more than you have to? His record doesnt exactly scream competence.

Of course these questions have no answers but still hold great fascination (at least to me).

Who knows, maybe there were several plots acting at the same time.

 

[ellemo]

I wanted to point out a a tragedy that happened several months ago in Brooklyn where a mother and 1 girl were able to escape a fire but 7 children perished. http://7online.com/news/7-siblings-killed-in-brooklyn-fire-laid-to-rest-in-israel/567560/

And another in May where some of the family members got out and others, who were sleeping, did not http://www.khou.com/story/news/loca...-boys-killed-in-la-porte-house-fire/27889017/

One report said that 33 percent of people who died in fires from 2011-2013 were sleeping. http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2015/07/24/264739.htm

What happened in the Sodder house is not unheard of. The biggest difference between then and now is that fire departments respond much more quickly now and can extinguish the flames sooner, so much more of the structures remain. They also have equipment that may allow them to get inside buildings and retrieve the people in the house and save some lives. Had this happened today, even if the kids still died, more would remain of the structure and bodies would have been found.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I wanted to point out a a tragedy that happened several months ago in Brooklyn where a mother and 1 girl were able to escape a fire but 7 children perished. http://7online.com/news/7-siblings-killed-in-brooklyn-fire-laid-to-rest-in-israel/567560/

And another in May where some of the family members got out and others, who were sleeping, did not http://www.khou.com/story/news/loca...-boys-killed-in-la-porte-house-fire/27889017/

One report said that 33 percent of people who died in fires from 2011-2013 were sleeping. http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2015/07/24/264739.htm

What happened in the Sodder house is not unheard of. The biggest difference between then and now is that fire departments respond much more quickly now and can extinguish the flames sooner, so much more of the structures remain. They also have equipment that may allow them to get inside buildings and retrieve the people in the house and save some lives. Had this happened today, even if the kids still died, more would remain of the structure and bodies would have been found.

Another difference between then and now is that we no longer heat our homes with coal. The Sodder home had a pile of coal in the basement, which would increase the temperature and duration of the fire.

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[Carnifax]

It's undoubtedly an interesting story and I think it's these little subtleties that draw you in. And as many differences there are to this story, there are as many similarities to everyday life in rural WV today.

While today we have advancements of cell phones, smoke alarms, fire retardant pajamas, fire stop construction methods we also still have corruption, poverty, and parents still hug their children at night.

 

[ilooovemy2kids]

I posted this on the inqueiry thread but I thought after it might be better to post on here. I am sorry if this isn't allowed or if someone had to see it twice!

Hello everyone! This is my first time posting on this site but I have read through all the threads dating back to 2005 and whew! I think every idea or theory holds some weight! If I repeat an answered question please forgive me but it was alot to take in.

I can't help it but I keep thinking about the Ricky Jean Bryant case that happened in 49 I believe. What if someone started a fire at the Sodder home simply to kidnap one child and did not expect the 5 children to come out at once? With Ricky Jean the mother got Ricky and her brother outside and ran back in. According to the brother a woman with blonde hair pulled up in a new car, told the brother to go a couple houses down for help. When he returned the lady and his sister were gone.

So what if the children are inside playing they hear a noise and all five run outside. The kidnapper did not expect that, maybe tried to get the older kids to run for help but Maurice refused so they convinced them all to get in the car to go get help? Maybe didn't know what to do with the older children and that's why they were seen at the hotel, to try to figure out what to do? Maybe the older kids were put into the asylum and the youngest were "adopted"?

Also, I can't recall the last post I seen from granddaughter or John...did they ever do a new dig?

Thanks everyone!

 

[wvugirl2007]

This an article I wrote a few years back on the basics of the case that might be helpful to people who have never heard of the case. http://hubpages.com/politics/The-1945-Christmas-Eve-Fire-Mystery

 

[RRW]

This an article I wrote a few years back on the basics of the case that might be helpful to people who have never heard of the case. http://hubpages.com/politics/The-1945-Christmas-Eve-Fire-Mystery

That's a very good article. One thing I had never read before that stuck out was George's original Italian surname. I can't help but wonder if the children, if they survived and were kidnapped, were renamed with more Italian-sounding names.

 

[STANDREID]

70 years has now passed.

 

[Carrieann0125]

Hi all, I am new here though I have been stalking the forums reading everything for weeks. I do want to say some things that have come to my mind. This is just my opinion and thoughts, and I don't mean to offend anyone at all. The first thing I am going to say is that I don't believe that the children died in the fire. There is too many strange things that happened after and even before that makes me think that. I don't believe in coincidences and there would be far too many in this case to believe. My thoughts are these:
1. Maybe it wasn't the father that got mixed up in trouble or made someone mad. Both John and Joe were adults, could there be a possibility that they crossed someone. I would lean more to Joe cause he wasn't there, being ex military myself I know the rules can be fudged about leaving station. Not that it is allowed, but we do it. I am not saying Joe did this, but like many I feel it would have to be a trustworthy person to get the kids to leave quietly and someone affiliated with Joe or Joe under duress could do it. Now I am not saying that Joe knew a fire would pursue, just that the kids would trust him.
2. I think the kids were gone before the phone call. I don't think it was planned to take all the kids, but five were awake and you can't explain taking only one. You have to take them all. I think the phone call then was to see the state of the parent that answeres. We're they asleep, panicked, how were they. I think it was to get a deal on the parent's state. Have they figured out the children were gone yet? I then think the fire might have been a scrimmage to cover that five kids were gone. One being kidnapped...happens in those times, but five. That calls for FBI.
3. And thought of this today, it is rumored that Martha was seen in a convent. Well I know from my Dad growing up in the fifties that private schools, Catholic ones, used the Nuns as teachers. Teachers that are photographed. If Martha was in a convent maybe (slim chance) she became a teaching nun and is in a class photo.
I have also seen some talk about the mafia and Pittsburgh affiliation. My parents are from there. I can ask if they heard of the names.

 

[cutter99]

There is an article about the Sodder children in February's Reader's Digest!

 

[Laura_Bean]

I think I finally found the mysterious Betty photo!!!!! Only took me years upon years!!!!!

 

[tarabull]

The Disappearance of the Sodder Children
December 16, 2015

http://www.missedinhistory.com/podcasts/the-disappearance-of-the-sodder-children/

 

[mom2six]

I think I finally found the mysterious Betty photo!!!!! Only took me years upon years!!!!!

Can you elaborate?

 

[Doghairrules]

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[freak]

First time posting. I've been looking at this case for almost a year, I've been obsessing,stressing and frustrated to the max with it. The lack of information to go on is down-heartening and raises a few suspicions as to why more wasn't done back then. However, due to some findings I don't believe they perished in the fire. It's possible mafia were involved due to some reason and the children were adopted out. I've seen the Louis photo but after recent findings i'm undecided if it was him or this other person I found who had a strong resemblance to the photo or maybe it was who he became as an adult i'm uncertain though and need to do more digging about this, the numbers on the back could be a postcode for Palermo, Italy and some say its also linked to Kentucky. I think I have finally found the photo George thought to be Betty but the dates do not match with the ones George stated, the resemblance is uncanny though.

 

[Falcon500]

First time posting. I've been looking at this case for almost a year, I've been obsessing,stressing and frustrated to the max with it. The lack of information to go on is down-heartening and raises a few suspicions as to why more wasn't done back then. However, due to some findings I don't believe they perished in the fire. It's possible mafia were involved due to some reason and the children were adopted out. I've seen the Louis photo but after recent findings i'm undecided if it was him or this other person I found who had a strong resemblance to the photo or maybe it was who he became as an adult i'm uncertain though and need to do more digging about this, the numbers on the back could be a postcode for Palermo, Italy and some say its also linked to Kentucky. I think I have finally found the photo George thought to be Betty but the dates do not match with the ones George stated, the resemblance is uncanny though.

Not much was done back then because the authorities were convinced that the house burned down and everyone who didn't escape was killed. The father made the decision to bulldoze the fire scene just days after a cursory inspection of the scene. Keep in mind that the second floor collapsed onto the first floor and in turn everything fell into the cellar.

What findings do you have that make you think that the children did not die in the fire?

What evidence do you have that the mafia was involved? How could they have magically appeared at the scene and kidnapped five children without being scene? Did the mafia enter the burning house or did they children escape only to run into the arms of five mafia members?

Assuming that they were kidnapped and put up for adoption how does that help the mafia? These were not infants. Wouldn't at least a few of the chidren raise hell at their next stop in the adoption chain? Once they were adopted wouldn't they tell their new parents about their real family? Wouldn't the oldest simply leave their new home and try to make it back to WV?

 

[wvcountrygirl]

As a native West Virginian I grew up hearing about the Sodder family fire. I am anxious to start on page 1 of the thread and read the thoughts and opinions of WSers!

 

[grammieto5]

I just heard of this family just this morning on FB. So course I thought of WS. I will be starting on page one also.