17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[Isabelle]

Have you seen the link on the first page about TM Punching his bus driver ,I believe it was a day or two before this happened IMO That is a violent action and shows TM was very capable of attacking GZ.Also about the jewelry found on TM that was sent to Dade county police I really wish we could find out exactly where it came from.IMO GZ did see what he reported.No one should have ended up
dead but once attacked GZ had the right IMO to save his own life.If he feared for his safety he would have called 911 IMO.

ETA Link

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline...erge-facebook-twitter-accounts-180103647.html

"With a single punch," the Orlando Sentinel, citing police sources, reported Monday, "Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer ... climbed on top of [him] and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered."

I would think the bus driver that TM struck would come forward or that he would have notified the school/school board about this. Just because he cousin tweeted something to that effect back to Trayvon doesn't mean it really happened. Just like GZ claiming Trayvon came after him doesn't really mean it happened.

 

[m00c0w]

I just don't think it matters how "bad" Trayvon was.....TRAYVON IS DEAD TRAYVON IS CLEARLY THE VICTIM How many teens do we know that smoke dope or do petty crime?It's common.I don't care whether or not Trayvon was suspended no matter how many times,I don't care whether or not he stole or smoked dope.
Trayvon CLEARLY did not go after Zimmerman.IF Trayvon really punched GZ,broke his nose,went for his gun or whatever it is CLEARLY Trayvon that would have acted under the "Stand the ground law",I don't understand one bit why people are arguing that this law applies if a grown armed man follows an unarmed minor and kills him .

So you believe that Zimmerman deserved to die because he was following someone?

 

[vlpate]

LE's encouraging a change in statements was done very early on and was reported around that time. Think about it, who could these witnesses complain to, LE??

Yes. They should complain to LE, FBI, CIA, DEA, anyone other than, CBS, NBC, HLN, CNN or, ABC. IMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

If the Sanford Police Department did not have their history of not doing their jobs, I might agree. But they have a very notorious reputation for NOT doing their jobs:







Those two are just the highest profile cases, but there have been many instances where SPD has not bothered with a proper investigation. That is why Chief Bill Lee's predecessor was replaced. Chief Lee was supposed to be cleaning up the PD.

Isn't the DOJ involved???

I say let them do their jobs.

All this mess of rallies and protests and black panthers and Jesse Jackson, and racial profiling, and arrest demands....... Is not doing a bit of good.

What do they think they are going to do? Pressure an arrest even IF the evidence shows no arrest should be made?

Again, it's my opinion that we should await the facts.

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Isn't the DOJ involved???

I say let them do there jobs.

All this mess of rallies and protests and black panthers and Jesse Jackson, and racial profiling, and arrest demands....... Is not doing a bit if good.

What do they think they ate going to do? Pressure an arrest even IF the evidence shows no arrest should be made?

Again, it's my opinion that we should await the facts.

JMO

I agree. I have a feeling that we're now in a situation that if the new prosecutor does not press charges, she will be targeted, as well. I feel as if the only "correct" answer here is charges and Zimmerman to be convicted, as far as many of the most vocal crowds are concerned.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I agree. I have a feeling that we're now in a situation that if the new prosecutor does not press charges, she will be targeted, as well. I feel as if the only "correct" answer here is charges and Zimmerman to be convicted, as far as many of the most vocal crowds are concerned.

I agree and I think that is sad.

 

[Yoda]

He went out between a gap in the fence on the street side, IIRC. He knew where the 711 was. His house was a straight shot, by the back entrance - where he was headed when he started running. I don't buy that he was lost.

I hadnt read this before, about going a back way to 711. Do you have a link? Tia

 

[Sensei]

So you believe that Zimmerman deserved to die because he was following someone?

I don't think anyone beleives that Zimmerman deserved to be killed because he was following someone, but neither did Trayvon. Trayvon was not the one with a loaded gun, and I would really like some corroborating evidence that would show me that Zimmerman did not attempt to restrain or stop Trayvon before the fight started, some evidence that would show that he really was in a fight that was significant enough to make him fear for his life from an unarmed teen, something other than simply his word for it. I would really like some evidence that makes sense to show my why an unarmed teen would brutally attack the stranger that was following him.

I could very well be wrong, but I just can't make sense of a kid with no weapon turning and engaging viciously someone that he was not sure did not have a gun, someone moreover who would and should have cleaned his clock for him, with the weight advantage that he had.

 

[rotterdam]

I really don't have any evidence to refute the opinions you've displayed. Thank you for admitting the error about the 911 tapes, though. That's been widely mischaracterized in the media for some reason.

I want to address this last issue with you. It is my belief that if someone exercised a proper use of force in a clear self-defense scenario, they have every right to not be arrested. Let me give you this scenario (I am in no way comparing this to the case this thread is about, this is just an attempt to explain why the law is the way it is) -

Say John is a student at a local college, and has just stopped at a store to pick up some stuff for the night. Upon returning to his car, two males approach him at knifepoint and demand he hand over his keys. John pulls a gun of his own and shoots one individual in the head, killing him, and clips the second male. John has sustained injuries of his own during the conflict. Police are called to the scene. Given that John just fought for his life, and that he is clearly a victim in this scenario, do you think it would be morally or ethically right to mandate he gets arrested simply because he used deadly force? This man, a victim, should not have to lose time off from school and work because of a situation he was thrown into and in which he was forced to defend himself. That is the standpoint from which this law was written. It's not an attempt to protect anyone but a victim of a violent crime that was forced to ultimately defend themselves. The law makes clear exceptions for individuals that are suspected of actually using such force unlawfully; whether the police or prosecutor decides there's enough probable cause is an entirely different story.

JMO

Btw - that's a legitimate story that happened here in Atlanta, FWIW.

The incident above was a confrontation by chance. I have a problem with a confrontation that was orchestrated by the surviving person claiming SYG. Somehow that statute does not address that adequately. Somebody could engineer a confrontation, instigate a fight while knowing full well the other person does not have gun , and then blowing that person away while laying on the bottom.
Sounds like a nifty way to get rid of your enemies/undesirables.

 

[vlpate]

I agree. I have a feeling that we're now in a situation that if the new prosecutor does not press charges, she will be targeted, as well. I feel as if the only "correct" answer here is charges and Zimmerman to be convicted, as far as many of the most vocal crowds are concerned.

I would hate to think the DOJ would allow themselves to be threatened. What next?

 

[LambChop]

He went out between a gap in the fence on the street side, IIRC. He knew where the 711 was. His house was a straight shot, by the back entrance - where he was headed when he started running. I don't buy that he was lost.

Good reason he stayed on the sidewalk. Take a good look via the satellite picture on goggle. Snakes. It appears to be all swampy back there. Plus anywhere there is a large body of water you'll probably find an alligator or two. Not a good shortcut. jmo

 

[oh_gal]

Thank you for your response.
Yep, not seeing it in that article.

Must have been a rumor or unverified. Smashing.

Which is why I stated, several times, "if true", in my post. As we can all see, the facts are few; speculation abounds, and these mass protests and rallies are doing nothing more than working people up to a fever pitch of irrationality and high emotions.

 

[vlpate]

I don't think anyone beleives that Zimmerman deserved to be killed because he was following someone, but neither did Trayvon. Trayvon was not the one with a loaded gun, and I would really like some corroborating evidence that would show me that Zimmerman did not attempt to restrain or stop Trayvon before the fight started, some evidence that would show that he really was in a fight that was significant enough to make him fear for his life from an unarmed teen, something other than simply his word for it. I would really like some evidence that makes sense to show my why an unarmed teen would brutally attack the stranger that was following him.

I could very well be wrong, but I just can't make sense of a kid with no weapon turning and engaging viciously someone that he was not sure did not have a gun, someone moreover who would and should have cleaned his clock for him, with the weight advantage that he had.

If what is being leaked is true, Trayvon is a pretty frigging strong individual to be able to punch a fat guy hard enough to get him countdown prone.

 

[rotterdam]

And that's a state legislator, nonetheless.

May be up for re-election this year??:what:

 

[m00c0w]

I don't think anyone beleives that Zimmerman deserved to be killed because he was following someone, but neither did Trayvon. Trayvon was not the one with a loaded gun, and I would really like some corroborating evidence that would show me that Zimmerman did not attempt to restrain or stop Trayvon before the fight started, some evidence that would show that he really was in a fight that was significant enough to make him fear for his life from an unarmed teen, something other than simply his word for it. I would really like some evidence that makes sense to show my why an unarmed teen would brutally attack the stranger that was following him.

BBM

And I would like some corroborating evidence that shows Martin did not start the fight, too.

I could very well be wrong, but I just can't make sense of a kid with no weapon turning and engaging viciously someone that he was not sure did not have a gun, someone moreover who would and should have cleaned his clock for him, with the weight advantage that he had.

BBM

Weight doesn't mean much in a fight, especially when it's potentially a fat dude against a lean, young football player. Most fighting styles emphasize taking advantage of the other person's weight, and using physics against them. I'm not claiming Martin was an MMA champ, but weight really doesn't mean someone has the upper hand in a fight.

 

[Sensei]

I would hate to think the DOJ would allow themselves to be threatened. What next?

And I would hate to think that they would even consider doing oversight and looking into this case if a preliminary look at the case showed a thorough investigation where everything was handled as it should be and no problems with any of the methods or evidence or lack of evidence collected before a determination was made.

 

[vlpate]

I hadnt read this before, about going a back way to 711. Do you have a link? Tia

ummm, sure, but it may take a minute. That's why I said IIRC.

 

[m00c0w]

The incident above was a confrontation by chance. I have a problem with a confrontation that was orchestrated by the surviving person claiming SYG. Somehow that statute does not address that adequately. Somebody could engineer a confrontation, instigate a fight while knowing full well the other person does not have gun , and then blowing that person away while laying on the bottom.
Sounds like a nifty way to get rid of your enemies/undesirables.

What would keep them from doing this with self-defense as merely an affirmative defense?

SYG only makes it so that you don't get arrested or go to trial without probable cause to believe it was unlawful, which is how it should be. Police could just as easily look the other way before SYG. That's what I think a lot of people are missing.

 

[LambChop]

So you believe that Zimmerman deserved to die because he was following someone?

I think that was the point of LE advising him not to pursue TM. What if TM had a weapon and shot him and claimed self defense? It was always a possibility and that was why LE told him to return to his car because of the fact that this very thing could happen. jmo

 

[Sensei]

BBM

And I would like some corroborating evidence that shows Martin did not start the fight, too.


BBM

Weight doesn't mean much in a fight, especially when it's potentially a fat dude against a lean, young football player. Most fighting styles emphasize taking advantage of the other person's weight, and using physics against them. I'm not claiming Martin was an MMA champ, but weight really doesn't mean someone has the upper hand in a fight.

he isn't that fat, and Trayvon was NOT a football player, nor is there any evidence that he was a karate expert or in any way trained in the art of hand to hand combat...The question would be how did Martin get the upper hand?

I have seen a lot of fights, and scuffles, I have seen a lot more of the results of those fights and scuffles, since it is often that BOTH parties come in for treatment in handcuffs, and I have to say that it is a lot harder to kill someone with your bare hands than someone might think, and the idea that the an untrained kid could knock someone off their feet with one blow I find improbable as the idea that he would attack without warning ...IMO JMHO and stuff