17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[Velouria]

February 6, four days later a residence was burglarized and the burglars were apprehended on 2/7 - three black males, at least one of which was carrying a laptop in his backpack that had been stolen on 2/6..

image snipped for space
BBM

and one white male.

Wonder how many white males GZ stopped following this report?

 

[2goldfish]

Ok...this was not "random". He thought TM was up to no good. GZ didn't just pick a random person to follow. If a person you've never seen before is following you...do you attack them? I don't think so, it's not "defending yourself".

I get that he thought this, but what he thought and what the reality were were two different things. to trayvon this was quite random and probably terrifying. he did the right thing to face GZ (according to gavin de becker's gift of fear and so far in life I've found no reason to think this was bad information) would he be correct to simply face him and start throwing punches? no....but I dont think that is how this went down and we only have GZ's version that this is what happened because trayvon is dead.

 

[Peliman]

that his actions could not absolutely, unquestionably be determined to be lawful, they would likely depend on his intentions in following TM. I do wonder what he planned to do. You see someone, determine they're suspicious and, based on his comments about TM reaching in his waistband and having something in his hands, I think he may have concluded TM was armed. So, he calls 911 on this armed guy he thinks is a criminal and then, instead of just letting LE do their thing, he still follows him and seems to get particularly agitated about seeing TM run, followed by his concern that "these a%$holes always get away". So, why was he following him and what did he plan to do when he caught up?

I just find the whole thing infuriating. GZ was totally wrong in his assumptions and conclusions and he escalated the situation to a place it never needed to be IMO. If he had just asked TM a question at the beginning, if he just stayed in his truck and waited for LE then at least his wrong assumptions about this kid wouldn't have ended with the kid dead.

I don't disagree with you, what happened in those last few moments are critical. Now if GZ was assuming the neighborhood watch/security his best weapon was a pen. He could have been writing a description of Trayvon.(whom I think he didn't know), he could have written the direction he was traveling, if he saw him go into an apt., he could have written that also.

I think it became a legal situation at the point one or the other put hands or physically contacted the other. JMO

 

[rossva]

But didn't Martin think that Zimmerman, as a random person walking through the neighborhood, must be following him for no reason, and that made him suspicious of Zimmerman?

It sounds totally random to me to think that a random person walking through the neighborhood looks suspicious for no reason

 

[Etilema]

I mentioned in a previous thread that I have heard people, in person, discussing what to say to police to support a self-defense claim when you have shot someone dead. They mean in cases where there is an intruder or robber (although these kinds of people may also be especially sensitive about who is a threat). They say that (1) you need to be sure to kill the person, because otherwise it's his word against yours and he could even sue you, and (2) you need to be careful how you explain the situation to police.

I just did an search for these kinds of discussions online, and was able to find some on forums about defensive carrying of firearms. I don't think I am allowed to link to such sites, but I wanted to throw the idea out there that reading through such discussions might be informative in understanding a certain mindset.

Again, these are mostly talking about cases where someone has either broken into the house or has physically confronted them, but there is an attitude. For instance, they suggest that you contact an attorney ahead of time, so in the event you do shoot someone dead, you can immediately call that person and they will understand the scenario.

I'm not saying that GZ was involved in these kinds of discussions, necessarily, but it wouldn't surprise me, considering his interest in neighborhood watch, etc.

All JMO.

 

[rossva]

I disagree on the importance of the coat. But anyhow, I believe, as long as the coat is at least 51% red, it is legally a red coat, a red coat with black trim at most, not a red and black coat, so the officers statement would still be correct.

This case hinges on that coat. There is probably no piece of evidence in this case that is more important then that coat and that cop got the description of it wrong. IMO

 

[2goldfish]

WE ALL size people up one way or another. GZ had that right too.
It was not random at all.
I may have possibly sized him up the same way, and my family is very mixed.

I get that, and I am not one who thinks GZ necessarily targeted trayvon for being black, rather I think GZ liked to target pretty much everyone and play superman. I'm not trying to make any judgements about that although I may say GZ and I would never be friends.

HOWEVER. I am not talking about his "right to size him up" I am talking about whether or not is it okay to get out of one's vehicle - after calling 911 and knowing LE is on the way, after being told "you dont need to [follow him]"- getting out of his vehicle to follow trayvon and confront him one way or the other, is IMO absolutely NOT AN OK THING TO DO.

I live outside a bus stop in a country well known for its penchant for heavy drinking. one night a few months back a few guys got a lil crazy out there so did I bounce out after them, superman style to lay the smacketh down? certainly not, I locked the front door and waited for someone else to call 999 :blushing:


(no, no one was hurt, it was all noise and plenty of it....but I didnt know that from inside the house with kids)

 

[francie]

In a written sworn to statement in a homicide case Officer Smith said Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket.

You can find that statement here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

Sanford City released a video showing Zimmerman in said jacket. Here is the link to video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWDNbQUgm4&feature=youtu.be



I took a still from that video and here it is.

Now in my opinion that still clearly shows Zimmerman in a red and black jacket but Officer Smith swore it was a red jacket. He is a trained witness like all LE and knows the importance of what he puts in a police report and knows how to observe.

In a court of law a witness not telling the truth on one fact can draw in the questioning of other facts he swore to. I can see a lawyer asking Officer Smith if his hearing memory is any better then his visual memory.

ALL IMO

Thanks for that pic.... interesting that Officer Smith 'overlooked' all the black in that 'red' jacket when in same report he describes Trayvon’s shoes as "white/red sneakers" and NO mention of gunman’s shirt or shoes. Doesn't pass the smell test. Nope. jmo.

 

[Inabsentia]

< mod snip >

I was in a department store one day many years ago, on the way out the guard stopped me and someone else. We both got searched;
I was in the ladies department next to a well dressed lady that was apparently shop lifting&#8230;
They thought we may be together. They did apologize to me, but she was arrested. I did not get mad. I understood,
I was a bit shaken and the store Manager gave me a 10% discount gift for my next time in the store.

You got an apology and monetary compensation of sorts. Trayvon Martin got killed and swept under the rug. I wonder what the difference could have been? Moo

 

[gxm]

image snipped for space
BBM

and one white male.

Wonder how many white males GZ stopped following this report?

I don't know about after this report but I do know that his call history includes complaints about white males. I don't have the call history PDF on this computer so JMO, OMO,

and :moo:

 

[Peliman]

I get that, and I am not one who thinks GZ necessarily targeted trayvon for being black, rather I think GZ liked to target pretty much everyone and play superman. I'm not trying to make any judgements about that although I may say GZ and I would never be friends.

HOWEVER. I am not talking about his "right to size him up" I am talking about whether or not is it okay to get out of one's vehicle - after calling 911 and knowing LE is on the way, after being told "you dont need to [follow him]"- getting out of his vehicle to follow trayvon and confront him one way or the other, is IMO absolutely NOT AN OK THING TO DO.

GZ was already out of the truck when the dispatch said "we don't need you to do that." IMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

BBM correct, this was not "random" it was the opposite of random. GZ did not follow just some random kid. He followed a teenage AA male who looked suspicious, wore a hoody, was out in the rain, seemed to be on drugs, and fit the description of A-hole in GZ's estimation.

The fact that this was not random tends to give credence IMO that TM was profiled, followed and confronted because of race and or age and or general appearance, none of which is okay in my book.

UBM what about TM made him appear to be up to no good? That is the question many of us are asking, the answer to which will IMO shed light on whether this was racially motivated.

If I am being followed in the dark of night by a strange man, who I think I have evaded but who then pops back up again, still following, you can bet your bippy I am feeling threatened. you can also bet I am gonna stand my ground and defend myself.

Defend yourself against what though?

 

[2goldfish]

GZ was already out of the truck when the dispatch said "we don't need you to do that." IMO

thank you - I was unaware. I couldnt follow closely at first cause I have a 17 year old son who often goes to the store to get himself a soda and his little brother a candy bar....he does it wearing his hoodie...with the hood up if it's raining....course he's white so I guess he's safe and if not, his murderer would likely be jailed...

 

[katydid23]

A minor who knows GZ, has said he sprayed bullies with water previously.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=2&pagewanted=4&hpw -
From page 4 of 7 page article - ~"George would stick up for a chubby boy in the neighborhood who was being bullied, recalled ~minors name edited out~ (who, like Stephanie, asked that his last name not be used). “And if George saw bullies walking by his house, he would pull out his hose and spray them down and tell them they were wasting their time and to go and do something else.”~

Unfortunally, the article doesn't clarify how recently that happened.

&

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57403716/friend-of-martin-shooter-id-do-the-same-thing/ -

~"Do you think he did the right thing by confronting Treyvon Martin?"

"Yes."~

Is GZ's neighbor / fellow watch volunteer FT, confirming that GZ started the confrontation?

Personally, I think spraying bullies with a water hose is a good thing.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Only that it seems that Mr. Zimmerman has a penchant for dangerous things.

I love big dogs and used to raise and train rottweilers, and there was always a certain type of dog owner that I would never sell to, Mr. Zimmerman seems to fit into that category. An improperly trained and socialized rottweiler is on any given day at least as dangerous as a loaded gun and far less predictable since the firing mechanism is unknown. IMO JMHO and stuff.

How do we know his dog is dangerous?

 

[mercuriod]

A minor who knows GZ, has said he sprayed bullies with water previously.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=2&pagewanted=4&hpw -
From page 4 of 7 page article - ~"George would stick up for a chubby boy in the neighborhood who was being bullied, recalled ~minors name edited out~ (who, like Stephanie, asked that his last name not be used). “And if George saw bullies walking by his house, he would pull out his hose and spray them down and tell them they were wasting their time and to go and do something else.”~

Unfortunally, the article doesn't clarify how recently that happened.

&

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57403716/friend-of-martin-shooter-id-do-the-same-thing/ -

~"Do you think he did the right thing by confronting Treyvon Martin?"

"Yes."~

Is GZ's neighbor / fellow watch volunteer FT, confirming that GZ started the confrontation?

So GZ would pull out his hose and spray down kids just for walking by his house? Were the kids on the sidewalk on the road or in GZ's yard? What does that make GZ if not a bully himself?

 

[fran]

ATTENTION PLEASE!

All opinions are welcome here. Just because another poster's opinion doesn't agree with your's, doesn't make them wrong.

Two people can look at the same set of circumstances and come to different conclusions, ie opinion.

IF someone does NOT agree with your opinion, you are NOT to call them out and ask them to explain themselves, ie asking for a link.

If you don't agree with another poster, then either say we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on. Or say nothing at all.

I can't even tell you how many posts I've removed from this thread in the last 6 hours. Yes, six HOURS I've been reading posts and snipping and removing.

Now please. We've given you the rules and asked you to abide by them. If you've forgetton the rules, you may want to read back in this thread to the first post or at least a couple of hours ago.

IF you're not able to abide by the rules we've laid out, perhaps you should take a break and go outside and enjoy the day. Or,......heaven forbid clean house.

Ok, I've got RL things to do and I hope you all don't take advantage of that fact. Because I have a feeling when some of the other moderators have a chance to check in, and if they see a ton of alerts, or even not alerts and people are posting inappropriate things against our rules, there will be some TO's handed out. It will be out of my hands.

Take care and tia for your cooperation.
fran

 

[Isabelle]

From this same link it is said by this lawyer that GZ passed a voice stress test adminstered by SPD.

"He is confident of their client's self-defense claim, Uhrig told WOFL, in part because Zimmerman has already passed a voice-stress test, something similar to a lie-detector test, administered by Sanford police"

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._defense-team-lawrence-o-donnell-wofl-channel

Is the voice stress test something that can be admitted if there is a trial?

 

[Isabelle]

How do we know his dog is dangerous?

How do we know his dog is not dangerous?

 

[katydid23]

So GZ would pull out his hose and spray down kids just for walking by his house? Were the kids on the sidewalk on the road or in GZ's yard? What does that make GZ if not a bully himself?

wow. He was standing up for a chubby kid who was being bullied by neighborhood kids. Normally that would be considered a good thing by most people here. Now it is seen as evidence that he is a cold blooded monster, imo.