18 y/o Black male shot dead by Police in St Louis suburb of Berkeley MO

[reedus23]

If this case has zero to do with Leo abuse of power, are we obligated to discuss it? Does the case have any relevance in the bigger scheme of things?

You're not obligated to discuss anything. IMOO, it is a part of a bigger picture of why some are finding it acceptable to pull a gun on LE and how we stop that.

 

[reedus23]

I think cops serving no knock warrants usually need a good reason to kill someone in the house, such as somebody points a gun at them. Has there been a case where they entered the wrong house and shot innocent, unarmed people?

You're missing the point and I'm finding this medium of typing as too difficult to clarify it. Suffice it to say the point wasn't whether or not LE would be justified to shoot in that circumstance, but would the person who thinks they are going to die be entitled to defend themselves.

 

[ontheclock]

Certainly seemed to be what happened to me as well. Which is why I was a bit surprised to find a thread on it.

Can you tell us more? Did you pull a gun on the cop? What happened after initial contact?

 

[reedus23]

Can you tell us more? Did you pull a gun on the cop? What happened after initial contact?

Poor English on my part. The situation didn't happen to me. It seemed to me that I agreed with his/her observations. Nope, never been pulled over for more than a traffic ticket and haven't picked up a gun since I was in boy scouts.

 

[ontheclock]

You're not obligated to discuss anything. IMOO, it is a part of a bigger picture of why some are finding it acceptable to pull a gun on LE and how we stop that.

Reedus23,believe it or not, I get where you're coming from. It becomes difficult to bring the discussion forward if we agree pulling a gun on authorities is unacceptable. What else can we discuss? It's unacceptable, no? I find it hard to rationally accept any alternative. I get that that others feel otherwise. Should we engage their unrealistic values?

 

[MyBelle]

You're missing the point and I'm finding this medium of typing as too difficult to clarify it. Suffice it to say the point wasn't whether or not LE would be justified to shoot in that circumstance, but would the person who thinks they are going to die be entitled to defend themselves.

I don't believe I'm missing your point. Anybody could sure try to claim in court they were defending themselves against the cops who both vocally and visibly identify themselves. Of course, that is providing they are still alive to go to court. There is a reason the word POLICE is so visible on vests and gear.

 

[katydid23]

And you are sound asleep. And you have bright lights shown in your eyes where maybe just maybe it is hard to discern exactly who that is. Or lord forbid, these particular cops don't even announce, which can happen. Remember too, the entire reason for the way they enter (and correct me if I'm wrong Archangel) is to disorient and essentially not give one time to logically think things through. That is incredibly dangerous work for LE and I admire them when they do it. My question though is what about when it is done wrong? What do you do as a person? You have no idea who that is breaking through your doors. All you know is your being attacked, there's loud bangs, there's shots fired. So I guess the answer is, as you say, I just lay there, not knowing who it is and just pray and hope that it isn't someone intent on killing me.

Do burglars tend to burst into the bedroom shouting and shining huge flashlights into your room ?

 

[katydid23]

Certainly seemed to be what happened to me as well. Which is why I was a bit surprised to find a thread on it.

One reason there is a lively and active thread on it is because the 'movement' has made Antonio the new poster boy for their cause.

 

[CoolJ]

One reason there is a lively and active thread on it is because the 'movement' has made Antonio the new poster boy for their cause.

Katydid23 I just don't think this culture and attitude of "it being ok to kill cops" is that prevalent unless you are looking for it. But I am sure if looking for it, you could find a culture and attitude that supports just about anything. Whose twitter feeds are you following that are leading you to believe this? Is this something that MSM is reporting on and I am just missing it? Are we only speaking of recent events or has this attitude been prevalent for a long time?

 

[ontheclock]

Unfortunate

Katydid23 I just don't think this culture and attitude of "it being ok to kill cops" is that prevalent unless you are looking for it. But I am sure if looking for it, you could find a culture and attitude that supports just about anything. Whose twitter feeds are you following that are lading you to believe this? Is this something that MSM is reporting on and I am just missing it? Are we only speaking of recent events or has this attitude been prevalent for a long time?

Unfortunatly we're all posting on the same thread. Must be something to talk about. Respectfully.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I think education from a very young age may be advantageous to our society, in general.
We can not assume guardians are explaining this to our youth.
I think mandatory classes are needed in our school systems on this important topic but the content must be standardized & consistent. Not individually interpreted.

First, define to our young "audience" what the role of a police officer is.
Second, educate about rights.
Third, talk about actions & consequences. Discuss what will get you shot. Discuss crimes that will get you prison sentences & for how long. Discuss avoidance. Discuss risk-taking behavior. Discuss the illusion of the glamor of a gangster life.
Maybe even take our young "audience" for a tour through a prison as a deterrent.

I don't think every lesson needs to be learned the hard way if we as a society recognize this growing problem & attempt to proactively fend it off. Stop the youth from becoming criminals in the first place makes sense to me.

It certainly can't hurt.

Moo

 

[CoolJ]

i cannot say specifically because we are not allowed to discuss individuals tweets. But I only look a the 'journalists' [live streamers] tweets. And their pages are FULL of these types of statements. An eye for an eye, and all that.

ETA: I am not looking for it. I am just looking at THE LEADERS of the movement. And this is what they are saying. The cops deserved it, brought it on themselves, etc etc

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/30/nation/la-na-nn-police-deaths-20131230

 

[katydid23]

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/30/nation/la-na-nn-police-deaths-20131230

I am not sure how that refutes what I was saying?

 

[CoolJ]

Unfortunate

Unfortunatly we're all posting on the same thread. Must be something to talk about. Respectfully.

Just because we are talking on this thread doesn't mean there is a culture that is saying it is ok to kill cops. This is getting ridiculous. Read the article I posted in reply to katydid23. Cops getting killed on the job is on the decline and has been for decades.

 

[CoolJ]

I am not sure how that refutes what I was saying?

Doesn't really refute anything about this "movement" you speak of. But it does refute this idea of a culture saying it is ok to kill cops. Cops being killed on the job has been declining for decades. There are many sources to reference this, but I chose the LA times specifically for you.

 

[CoolJ]

Double post

 

[Yoda]

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/30/nation/la-na-nn-police-deaths-20131230

I hate statistics. There are too many variables involved in our big complex world.

I'm glad to see less officers are being killed by guns. Are they being shot at less? Better training? Better emergency care so those who are shot don't die? Body armor?

I don't like to see the number of people killed by police going up. Are there more doped up people involved? Number of criminals attacking officers increased? Are officers a more accurate shot than criminals so they are more likely to create a fatal wound? Is there a higher percentage of crimes then in the past?

 

[katydid23]

Double post

This 'culture' I am speaking of is brand spanking new. This is being whipped up currently, by hundreds of people marching up into cops faces and screaming EFF YOU, PIGS IN DA BLANKET, FRYING LIKE BACON...

This is a brand new attitude that is being generated NOW, that cops are KKK loving, violent KILLers. Your figures of the number of cops killed last year do not mean anything, imo.

 

[MyBelle]

Doesn't really refute anything about this "movement" you speak of. But it does refute this idea of a culture saying it is ok to kill cops. Cops being killed on the job has been declining for decades. There are many sources to reference this, but I chose the LA times specifically for you.

You are incorrect. Cops being killed on the job by gunfire has INCREASED 53% over last year.

http://www.odmp.org/

According to the Officer Down Memorial Page, there has been an 11 percent increase in the number of “Line of Duty” deaths this year, compared to 2013.

“It’s not a New York thing. It’s not a Pennsylvania or Las Vegas thing. It’s a law enforcement thing,” Jones said.

He said it is a risk everyone wearing a badge knows going into the job.

http://fox40.com/2014/12/23/sacramento-county-sheriff-speaks-on-on-duty-deaths/

 

[CoolJ]

But I am NOT talking about the fringe elements. I am talking about the SAME PEOPLE, exact same people, that you keep pointing to when you claim the people don't trust cops. The people who are leading the marches every day are the same who are saying it is 'understnadable' that some cops were shot.

I am not disputing that these people are saying it, I am just saying it is a tiny microcosm of society. There is no culture or attitude of it being ok to kill cops that is prevalent in today's society. That is just silly. Yes I agree there are idiots out there who think it is ok, but there are idiots out there that think many despicable things are ok.