2009.11.06 Forensic Entomology Report Released #2

[AZlawyer]

BTW, I remember back when the insect reports first came out a couple of people said "coffin flies will feed on any decomposing matter, not just dead humans." It's true that the particular species of coffin fly found in the trash bag will also feed on decomposing plant material ([ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaselia_scalaris"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaselia_scalaris[/ame]), etc., but:

1. The decomposing material in question would have to have been in liquid form for this type of fly to feed on it (see above link);

2. This decomposing material would also have to have a fatty acid composition suspiciously close to a decomposing human or pig, according to the tests that were run on the paper towels; and

3. The decomposing material would also have to have contained peroxidase, in order to explain the preliminary positive result on the blood test run on the paper towels.

There are substances that are not human decomposition fluids that would satisfy #1 (other liquid decomposition products), OR #2 (similar fatty acid composition) OR #3 (containing peroxidase), but I haven't been able to find any substance other than human or pig decomposition fluid that would satisfy all three requirements.

 

[Just Jayla]

BTW, I remember back when the insect reports first came out a couple of people said "coffin flies will feed on any decomposing matter, not just dead humans." It's true that the particular species of coffin fly found in the trash bag will also feed on decomposing plant material (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaselia_scalaris), etc., but:

1. The decomposing material in question would have to have been in liquid form for this type of fly to feed on it (see above link);

2. This decomposing material would also have to have a fatty acid composition suspiciously close to a decomposing human or pig, according to the tests that were run on the paper towels; and

3. The decomposing material would also have to have contained peroxidase, in order to explain the preliminary positive result on the blood test run on the paper towels.

There are substances that are not human decomposition fluids that would satisfy #1 (other liquid decomposition products), OR #2 (similar fatty acid composition) OR #3 (containing peroxidase), but I haven't been able to find any substance other than human or pig decomposition fluid that would satisfy all three requirements.

So you're saying it wasn't a squirrel?

Seriously, thx for the informative post, it would be well-put to the jury if the state were to use your comparison as it is pretty simple to understand. Black & white will be very helpful in this otherwise colorful case.

 

[AZlawyer]

BTW, I remember back when the insect reports first came out a couple of people said "coffin flies will feed on any decomposing matter, not just dead humans." It's true that the particular species of coffin fly found in the trash bag will also feed on decomposing plant material (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaselia_scalaris), etc., but:

1. The decomposing material in question would have to have been in liquid form for this type of fly to feed on it (see above link);

2. This decomposing material would also have to have a fatty acid composition suspiciously close to a decomposing human or pig, according to the tests that were run on the paper towels; and

3. The decomposing material would also have to have contained peroxidase, in order to explain the preliminary positive result on the blood test run on the paper towels.

There are substances that are not human decomposition fluids that would satisfy #1 (other liquid decomposition products), OR #2 (similar fatty acid composition) OR #3 (containing peroxidase), but I haven't been able to find any substance other than human or pig decomposition fluid that would satisfy all three requirements.

Thanks to a personal email conversation with a former WS member, I just realized that the FBI report on napkin #Q248.3 states that there were no STR typing results obtained "FROM THE DNA RECOVERED" on that napkin. The other napkins, in contrast, were listed as having "NO DETECTABLE DNA." So it appears whatever the bugs were feeding on from those napkins did have DNA.

 

[denjet]

Thanks to a personal email conversation with a former WS member, I just realized that the FBI report on napkin #Q248.3 states that there were no STR typing results obtained "FROM THE DNA RECOVERED" on that napkin. The other napkins, in contrast, were listed as having "NO DETECTABLE DNA." So it appears whatever the bugs were feeding on from those napkins did have DNA.

Thanks so much for this post!
Why do I think the best the defense can do with the trash bag and contents is to insist that trash bag was not in KC's trunk ... DNA from a napkin from the trash definitely refutes THAT theory ! Let's see Jose or Mason explain that one ...

 

[ZsaZsa]

Thanks to a personal email conversation with a former WS member, I just realized that the FBI report on napkin #Q248.3 states that there were no STR typing results obtained "FROM THE DNA RECOVERED" on that napkin. The other napkins, in contrast, were listed as having "NO DETECTABLE DNA." So it appears whatever the bugs were feeding on from those napkins did have DNA.

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[ynotdivein]

It is a good thing though that LE does have the bag because of the paper towels and all the bugs discovered in it. Thank the Lord for the honest tow yard owner.

Respectfully snipped & underlined for focus--

And thank the lord that CA went in to haggle over prices while GA went out to the yard with Simon Birch to retrieve the car.

They each had their roles set in stone long before Caylee disappeared. We are just watching it all play out.

 

[Sundance]

It doesn't look like any of the Anthonys will admit to the truth, but I would like to believe that before the trial starts, they will break down.

It is a good thing though that LE does have the bag because of the paper towels and all the bugs discovered in it. Thank the Lord for the honest tow yard owner.

Dr Haskell said that coffin flies are about the size of gnats so I would think being in the bag made it easier for them to be found. I can't even imagine them being found at the site.

As far as the paper towels, it would have taken a ton of them to clean the trunk as thoroughly as it was, but from what I remember of the evidence it only showed a few. I can only think that they were all tossed after ICA did the original cleaning when Caylee was taken out to be bagged. After Caylee was thrown away, ICA used a few more towels to wipe her hands and make that final cleaning of decomp and bugs from the trunk and those were the paper towels left in the bag.

If she had tossed those also, we would have lost all that evidence too. Can they get fingerprints off of paper towels?

I don't know about that, but I do know that on one of the videos when Casey was spending Amy's money at Target, one of the items she purchased was a large package of paper towels. Like the packages that have like 8 rolls in it.

 

[watcher9]

respectfully snipped & underlined for focus--

and thank the lord that ca went in to haggle over prices while ga went out to the yard with simon birch to retrieve the car.

They each had their roles set in stone long before caylee disappeared. We are just watching it all play out.

amen!

 

[watcher9]

I don't know about that, but I do know that on one of the videos when Casey was spending Amy's money at Target, one of the items she purchased was a large package of paper towels. Like the packages that have like 8 rolls in it.

I guess too much time passed from the time she cleaned up until the LE started with the search warrants to expect any part of that roll to not be used. Could paper towels have been tracked the same way bags in a box or duct tape could be matched?

 

[LambChop]

I guess too much time passed from the time she cleaned up until the LE started with the search warrants to expect any part of that roll to not be used. Could paper towels have been tracked the same way bags in a box or duct tape could be matched?

KC had already abandoned the car when she was shopping at Target with Amy's checkbook. Amy was in PR and KC was driving Amy's car.

In the trash bag was a debt receipt belonging to TonE's roommate. That puts the bag in her car, plus the two witnesses, GA and SB. jmo

 

[countzero]

For me, it doesn't matter whether there were eight rolls of paper towels or however many.

It only took ONE paper towel with coffin wax and flies to convince me.

Add to this one towel the evidence from TLs apt nails it shut.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Some thoughts to ponder....

http://www.forensicmag.com/article/rebuttal-forensic-entomology-myths-busted-published-forensic-magazine%C2%AE-octobernovember-2006

Of note.....both Tim H. and Neil H. are cited in this article....

A snip:
On the second point, the authors’ position that the medical doctor is the only forensic scientist to determine time of death ignores the responsibilities of other forensic experts. The AAFS’ own descriptions of forensic pathologists state the scope of their contribution as cause and manner of death, not the time of death.

Given the overwhelming consensus of texts, scientific publications, and forensic science training courses spanning more than a century, it is difficult to understand how a new interpretation of this fundamental application could even be suggested.

Respectfully,

Neal H. Haskell, Ph.D., BCE, DABFE
Forensic Science & Biology Professor, Saint Joseph’s College, Rensselaer, Indiana

Robert D. Hall, Ph.D., J.D., DABFE
Associate Vice Chancellor for Research and Director of Compliance Office of Research, University of Missouri, Columbia, Missouri

Leon G. Higley, MS, Ph.D. DABFE
Professor of Entomology, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, Nebraska

Timothy E. Huntington, MS, ABFE
Ph.D. candidate, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, Nebraska

Ralph E. Williams, MS, Ph.D. DABFE
Professor of Entomology, Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana

So...do I anticipate the defense using Neil H's own words against him.....Ummmmmmmmmmmm Yeppers.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Dr. Huntington Entomologist report
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27161900/detail.html

 

[PMLsmom]

Well, that was worthless...

 

[logicalgirl]

Did Dr. Haskell actually give this guy a passing grade?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Bug data and temps
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27161889/detail.html

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Forensic entomology investigations report of diagnostic lab. addendum
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27161914/detail.html

Dr. Haskell....if I'm reading this correctly...

Well this appears to show decomp in the trunk of the vehicle..taken from CA's vacuums....Oh dear, what's the defense team to do...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[shellsbells]

I'm not too familir with how experts normally function in these kinds of cases, but is it normal that Huntington was given the report from Dr Haskell? It seems like he was basically handed something and told "here, now say it's worthless." I had always thought that experts were independent of each other and that's what made their opinions valid. :waitasec:

 

[logicalgirl]

Forensic entomology investigations report of diagnostic lab. addendum
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27161914/detail.html

Dr. Haskell....if I'm reading this correctly...

Well this appears to show decomp in the trunk of the vehicle..taken from CA's vacuums....Oh dear, what's the defense team to do...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

I was hoping for vacuum reports and so happy to see they reinforce the initial decomp and bug reports.

Cindy may have changed the dirt bag but did not change the filter - whew!

 

[Solace]

BBM

or prior to death, correct?

I think she was put out with chloroform and the duct tape added and then put in the trunk. Actually, I think this was all done in the trunk. It could have been done in the garage. But I think it was done in the trunk area and that Caylee was still alive, but unconscious. How long she stayed unconscious I don't know. Do you stay unconscious if you are unable to breathe? I am serious about that question. It is important - goes to suffering.