2009.11.19 Defense files motion suggesting Kronk as the killer. #3

[LambChop]

Chiquita- picture this scene- You have been in jail for over a year, for a crime you did not commit. LE asks you "Tell us what happened" and your response is "I will, next year!"
Does that sound believable?

Actually what she really said was " I'm not answering the question at all, but my Attorney will - next year".

Yes, I agree. And doesn't KC has so many more options on her plate than she did this time last year????? The saga continues.

 

[BeanE]

The one lawyer who left the case said she suffers from mental illness.

BBM

Wow! What lawyer? Linky dinky do, please!

 

[LambChop]

Just the fact that JB has fought tooth and nail to keep the source of the defense funding from being revealed, tells us that there was/is some lucrative deals being made. Early on it was rumored that an anonymous person was paying for Casey's defense.

And now we are pretty sure that "anonymous person" is Caylee.

 

[Chiquita71]

Chiquita- picture this scene- You have been in jail for over a year, for a crime you did not commit. LE asks you "Tell us what happened" and your response is "I will, next year!"
Does that sound believable?

Actually what she really said was " I'm not answering the question at all, but my Attorney will - next year".

Super Quote Respect ZsaZsa

EXACTLY! That is what I was doing with my post. I was trying to be logical and even handed and see things from the "other side": I am in the Casey is so guilty is isn't even funny camp but for the sake of being "fair" I wanted to use the same system I use to see she is guilty, to see if she is innocent.

My whole point is the same as the majority of WSers here: why isn't Casey, why didn't Casey come clean to LE if she is innocent? Just know that ITA with you. Even given the idea that her defense must defend her and find who the "real killer is" because they must go with the idea she is innocent to defend her: what the defense is doing has been said to be unethical and terribly flawed.

I'm with ya...totally. Casey does not come forward because she is guilty. No innocent person would wait this long to say that someone other than the nanny killed/took Caylee. If it was RK she would say: "ah ha!, you guys finally caught the real killer...now I am safe to tell my story."

...jmo...

 

[ZsaZsa]

Just the fact that JB has fought tooth and nail to keep the source of the defense funding from being revealed, tells us that there was/is some lucrative deals being made. Early on it was rumored that an anonymous person was paying for Casey's defense.

The fun part is, when Zenaida wins her civil case, I am hopeful they can find out all of Casey's assets and give them to ZG. :woohoo: Wouldn't you just love to be on that Jury?

 

[ZsaZsa]

Super Quote Respect ZsaZsa

EXACTLY! That is what I was doing with my post. I was trying to be logical and even handed and see things from the "other side": I am in the Casey is so guilty is isn't even funny camp but for the sake of being "fair" I wanted to use the same system I use to see she is guilty, to see if she is innocent.

My whole point is the same as the majority of WSers here: why isn't Casey, why didn't Casey come clean to LE if she is innocent? Just know that ITA with you. Even given the idea that her defense must defend her and find who the "real killer is" because they must go with the idea she is innocent to defend her: what the defense is doing has been said to be unethical and terribly flawed.

I'm with ya...totally. Casey does not come forward because she is guilty. No innocent person would wait this long to say that someone other than the nanny killed/took Caylee. If it was RK she would say: "ah ha!, you guys finally caught the real killer...now I am safe to tell my story."

...jmo...

I wasn't contradicting you Chiquita- I know you were just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Chiquita71]

Chiquita-

I really respect you trying to look at all sides. However, try looking at it from LE's perspective:

- young mother with missing 2 yo for 31 days that does not seem paniced at child's loss, has not reported her missing and is lying blatantly at every turn
- young mother cannot produce any communication/or living situation (past or present) for nanny that she says was last caretaker for 2 yo
- car in posession of young mother smells like death
- young mother released on bond and still does not release any information to help recover young 2 yo


I could go on and on as to how KC led LE to where they are now. They did not jump in without evidence.

I think every person (and their family) who has their freedom taken away feels like LE is against them and it is a conspiracy. The conspiracy is our judicial system. In most cases it works very well - in some cases it does not, but in MOST it does. KC had every opportunity to TELL THE TRUTH and made a choice not to do so.

As far as the defense and what they are doing 'throwing innocent people under the bus' - well they can do what they need to do to create doubt for their client. I live in CA, in my experience normally it is done in the courtroom but we don't have the sunshine laws where all the evidence is released like in FL. It appears the world is different in FL and a lot more happens in the media. I am not an attorney so this is MOO.

Super Quote Respect eaglemom

ITA, as I just said to ZsaZsa: I just wanted to play devil's advocate to see if thinking what Casey has done makes any sense if she is innocent. I love your points and they are all the same reasons I agree with you.

I feel that LE and the SA has much more evidence that we have not seen. I think because of the sunshine laws we think we have seen what they have but I can not believe that she is innocent and that the state has no evidence and they have her under the death penalty. ITA with you.

Didn't mean to make you guys defend your points. I just wanted to come at this from another angle than I have in my posts...and see what came of it...same thing IMHO: Casey killed Caylee.

Thank you so much

...jmo...

 

[Chiquita71]

I wasn't contradicting you Chiquita- I know you were just playing devil's advocate.

Sorry ZsaZsa :blushing:

You will have to excuse me...I was already a little crazy before this case...and now...

I just want this trial to begin and I would think that Casey would too...

...jmo...

 

[ZsaZsa]

Sorry ZsaZsa :blushing:

You will have to excuse me...I was already a little crazy before this case...and now...

I just want this trial to begin and I would think that Casey would too...

...jmo...

NO apology needed...:dance: You made your point well, I was just agreeing and illustrating the absurdity of her claim to innocence.

 

[eaglemom]

Super Quote Respect eaglemom

ITA, as I just said to ZsaZsa: I just wanted to play devil's advocate to see if thinking what Casey has done makes any sense if she is innocent. I love your points and they are all the same reasons I agree with you.

I feel that LE and the SA has much more evidence that we have not seen. I think because of the sunshine laws we think we have seen what they have but I can not believe that she is innocent and that the state has no evidence and they have her under the death penalty. ITA with you.

Didn't mean to make you guys defend your points. I just wanted to come at this from another angle than I have in my posts...and see what came of it...same thing IMHO: Casey killed Caylee.

Thank you so much

...jmo...

Chiquita-

I know you do and how hard you are trying to see the other side!

I too believe LE has LOTS of other evidence we have not seen.

I am, however, wondering if this is the 'evidence' from the defense that they were to give to the court by February......

jmo

 

[LambChop]

Chiquita-

I know you do and how hard you are trying to see the other side!

I too believe LE has LOTS of other evidence we have not seen.

I am, however, wondering if this is the 'evidence' from the defense that they were to give to the court by February......

jmo

Yep. Chiquita is keeping us on our toes.:angel:

 

[BeanE]

And now we are pretty sure that "anonymous person" is Caylee.

Actually, for myself, I'm not just pretty sure. It was proven and documented in Cindy Anthony's depo with the SAO that Casey Anthony sold images and videos of her murdered baby Caylee, and did so in order to pay for her defense on charges of murdering her baby.

I'm happy to provide the info and links

 

[Mendara]

Actually, for myself, I'm not just pretty sure. It was proven and documented in Cindy Anthony's depo with the SAO that Casey Anthony sold images and videos of her murdered baby Caylee, and did so in order to pay for her defense on charges of murdering her baby.

I'm happy to provide the info and links

Disgusting. It doesn't get sicker than that. If Casey were innocent she would have come forward with the real story on June 15th 2008. IMO

 

[Leila]

Since there were posts here regarding Casey being the "only one with a motive to kill Caylee" and RK not having any motive: Of course I don't know about RK's motive or lack of motive either way so I won't comment on his motive or lack of motive. But regarding Casey as far as "motive": I think Casey had the least motive possible for killing Caylee. Despite the media's image of Casey as someone who would kill her child, there's actually no evidence (that we've seen so far, at least) to support this, and almost 3 years worth of evidence to the contrary. Not only did Casey love Caylee, not only was Caylee her only accomplishment and source of self-esteem, not only did Casey love taking Caylee and showing her off everywhere she went and always had, but if people want to be cynical, Caylee was also Casey's only meal-ticket, whether through her own parents or potentially the paternal grandparents or even through Caylee's father or the state.
And as far as the supposed motive of killing Caylee to be free to party or to be with TL, I don't buy it, because Casey had been much more head over heels about Brandon S than TL for example, and didn't get rid of Caylee to try to be with him or any other guy. And she'd always partied, no need to get rid of Caylee. But if she had wanted to get rid of Caylee, I think her MO would be just leaving Caylee with GA or CA and not returning, just stringing them along, saying she'd be back soon. So easy. I don't think it's in Casey's MO to harm or kill Caylee, or that Casey would ever want to go to prison for the rest of her life.
As far as motive goes, sadly, child predators kill children every day with no "motive". Casey had had Caylee around a lot of new people shortly before Caylee's disappearance. Casey had come into contact with a lot of new people. No harm had ever come to Caylee before, now suddenly Caylee disappears and is later found murdered.
Now, could Casey have murdered Caylee due to the onset of delusions, delirium, or some radical personality change that had occurred during those weeks or some unknown reason? Obviously can't rule that out either. In fact in her statements and jailhouse conversations, LE interviews, etc, I do think she appears deluded and appears to have had a significant change in thinking and personality, she's completely "blank" about Caylee, says many weird and muddled/confused things (which will be found out to be untrue immediately, serves her no purpose, no kind of calculated lying), seems to be confusing the past with her current life, even says that one of her friends was "Juliet Lewis" (i.e. famous actress's name.) So I do think she has had some kind of mental deterioration. Not that it necessarily means she was the one who murdered Caylee. MOO But I don't see real evidence of "motive" IMO.

Casey had all the motive in the world to kill Caylee. First and foremost, Casey hates her mother and has little use for her father. Caylee was killed at a time that there was intense friction between Casey and Cindy. They had fought over Casey stealing from her grandparents and other transgressions. Casey was jealous of the attention CA and GA showered on Caylee. This is evidenced by Cindy's MySpace comments of July 3, 2008, in which she spelled out in black and white the issues between Casey and herself. Cindy stated in those comments that it was jealousy that had brought them to a point where Casey had taken Caylee away. Of course, at that point Cindy didn't know that Casey had killed Caylee and taken her away permanently.

There's no evidence to suggest that Casey had any sort of mental breakdown - delusions, delirium, or personality change. When she was arrested, and before the bond hearing, she was evaluated by a psychiatrist. Although that evaluation is sealed, had there been anything in that evaluation that the defense could use, they would have already used it and built a defense around it.

There's absolutely no motive for any of Casey's new friends to have killed Caylee. Casey wasn't important to any of them and Caylee wasn't interfering in any way.

Casey was nothing more than a female a guy could have a fling with because she slept with everyone. She wasn't the type of girl any of the guys would consider marriage material. She considered the relationship she had with TonE serious, where he didn't. This is evidenced by TonE's roommates kidding Casey about her getting upset that TonE was planning on going to NY. Casey was a temporary plaything only, not part of any future plans.

Roy Kronk is simply the unfortunate person who discovered Caylee's remains, and is being used (destroyed) by a defense team who has no moral scruples whatsoever.

 

[Eidetic]

And as far as the supposed motive of killing Caylee to be free to party or to be with TL, I don't buy it, because Casey had been much more head over heels about Brandon S than TL for example, and didn't get rid of Caylee to try to be with him or any other guy. And she'd always partied, no need to get rid of Caylee.

Respectfully snipped by me. :twocents:

And I'm just wondering, how did that Brandon S. situation work out for Casey? :waitasec: Brandon S. didn't want anything to do with Casey or Caylee. In fact, she was very hurt and humiliated by the way he dismissed her and how he'd moved on. I don't think she intended for a second on going through that again.
So TL contacts her through the Internet, he thinks she is a Valencia student, soon adapts his lifestyle right down to sushi and realizes she has to make a move when confronted on the check fraud etc.
Her house of cards had begun tumbling down around her.

Did she really think people would just buy the excuses she was giving them when they started asking about her daughter? Must have really burned her butt every time Caylee was brought up especially by this new group of people she had worked so hard at surrounding herself with, caring enough to ask about her.
Casey couldn't stand sharing attention with her child or with her mother. It doesn't take a huge leap of the imagination to see that she had figured out a Casey solution to those problems.

Sure, she had always partied, but things had changed. She wasn't planning on going back home when CA barged in to TL apartment that night demanding explanations and to me, this is very telling. My relationship is not the best with my mother by any means, but I can tell you that is the first place I would be had something traumatic happened to my child.
CA said something along the lines of; "Get your things, we're leaving." and Casey replied along the lines of "Ok, but I am coming back.(To Tonys place)"

She had also told friends she planned on moving to NY to be closer to TL.

The reason JG and others have said they don't recognize this Casey behind bars is simple. Casey is very good at putting on whatever front she thinks would work best to whomever she happens to be speaking to. Very obvious in the call home where she talks to Kristina, obvious in the interviews with LE and painfully obvious in the visits with her parents.
She is all over the place, at the same time she very aware of who she is doing it around. If there is one thing Casey is good at, it is reading other people and being aware of her surroundings because it is how she has been able to "blend" so long. When you have an honest to god mental illness, you aren't aware of such things. Why would you need to be? You are crazy, no need to put on airs.
Why do you think she most of all, was so annoyed at things being released to the public? We weren't supposed to see that.

Another reason she is unrecognizable behind bars, is because she does not have normal responses. She is not broken, crushed, emotionally spent. She is hardened, vacant and "pissed" when she is not flashing that phony smile at her legal team. These reactions would not be the case, especially if she were innocent or had given a rip about that child. Casey worries about Casey.

She is crazy alright, like a fox.

Just my opinion, as always.

 

[LambChop]

Now if the situation was different and Kronk found the body BEFORE Caylee was reported missing and LE arrested Kronk we would be hearing from Kronk's defense team how can they be holding him in jail when clearly there is no evidence of his guilty, he is totally innocent and why aren't they looking at the mother who had not reported her child missing in those 31 days.

 

[essies]

Legal Analyst Bill Sheaffer on Casey Anthony Case
Witness for the Prosecution or Fall Guy for the Defense?
by billsheaffer on November 24, 2009
<snipped>
Ms. Lyon’s approach, which has been adopted by Baez, Baden and company disregards any consideration other than win at ANY cost, regardless of the truth, or consequence to justice, the fair trial process or any innocent party ground under their boots.

Article:
http://billsheaffer.wordpress.com/2...-the-prosecution-or-fall-guy-for-the-defense/
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I THINK I'M IN LOVE!!!!!:blushing:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The problem with both of the ex-wives being credible in the interviews is that at least one of the ex-wives has already stated that she feels that Kronk is a good man. Now, if Kronk really did the things that she is now claiming he did, why would she have said (at first) that he was a good man. Her written (typed) opinion of him is on one of the three threads with this title. I know that someone was kind enough to post it and in no way did she mention any of the things that she does in her interview with the new defense PI. So, since Kronk's changing stories are a problem for some then wouldn't the changing story of his ex-wife be a problem as well? Also where are the police reports to back up either of the ex-wives? If my husband had done the things to me that these two women claim Kronk did to them you better believe that his butt would be in jail. Police reports filed and me NOT calling him a good man. Makes me think that these women got something in return (money) for the "dirt" that they dished out about Kronk.

I have not seen any other information from them but their interviews. I will look for (I see someone posted link below your post) and continue to gather information. But just based on the interviews, especially the heavier woman who seemed almost traumatized to me, they didn't seem to show signs of deception. But that's just my impression after viewing the tapes. There may be a lot more going on behind the scenes - I agree.

 

[TorisMom003]

Since there were posts here regarding Casey being the "only one with a motive to kill Caylee" and RK not having any motive: Of course I don't know about RK's motive or lack of motive either way so I won't comment on his motive or lack of motive. But regarding Casey as far as "motive": I think Casey had the least motive possible for killing Caylee. Despite the media's image of Casey as someone who would kill her child, there's actually no evidence (that we've seen so far, at least) to support this, and almost 3 years worth of evidence to the contrary. Not only did Casey love Caylee, not only was Caylee her only accomplishment and source of self-esteem, not only did Casey love taking Caylee and showing her off everywhere she went and always had, but if people want to be cynical, Caylee was also Casey's only meal-ticket, whether through her own parents or potentially the paternal grandparents or even through Caylee's father or the state.
And as far as the supposed motive of killing Caylee to be free to party or to be with TL, I don't buy it, because Casey had been much more head over heels about Brandon S than TL for example, and didn't get rid of Caylee to try to be with him or any other guy. And she'd always partied, no need to get rid of Caylee. But if she had wanted to get rid of Caylee, I think her MO would be just leaving Caylee with GA or CA and not returning, just stringing them along, saying she'd be back soon. So easy. I don't think it's in Casey's MO to harm or kill Caylee, or that Casey would ever want to go to prison for the rest of her life.
As far as motive goes, sadly, child predators kill children every day with no "motive". Casey had had Caylee around a lot of new people shortly before Caylee's disappearance. Casey had come into contact with a lot of new people. No harm had ever come to Caylee before, now suddenly Caylee disappears and is later found murdered.
Now, could Casey have murdered Caylee due to the onset of delusions, delirium, or some radical personality change that had occurred during those weeks or some unknown reason? Obviously can't rule that out either. In fact in her statements and jailhouse conversations, LE interviews, etc, I do think she appears deluded and appears to have had a significant change in thinking and personality, she's completely "blank" about Caylee, says many weird and muddled/confused things (which will be found out to be untrue immediately, serves her no purpose, no kind of calculated lying), seems to be confusing the past with her current life, even says that one of her friends was "Juliet Lewis" (i.e. famous actress's name.) So I do think she has had some kind of mental deterioration. Not that it necessarily means she was the one who murdered Caylee. MOO But I don't see real evidence of "motive" IMO.

I offer one name for you: Susan Smith. I have seen several ways that Casey and Susan are similar. Susan finally came to her senses however and admitted what she had done. However, Susan Smith also was a "loving mom" to her two sons, could have given the boys to their dad, lied about who took the boys. Another thing that I thought of is Baez really needs to rethink his change of venue motion. Casey has accused a hispanic woman and Baez wants the trial moved to a mainly hispanic community?!? That's like Susan Smith's lawyer wanting the trial moved to a mainly African American community (after she claimed a black man took her car and the boys). Pure stupid in my opinion.

 

[Leila]

Respectfully snipped by me. :twocents:

And I'm just wondering, how did that Brandon S. situation work out for Casey? :waitasec: Brandon S. didn't want anything to do with Casey or Caylee. In fact, she was very hurt and humiliated by the way he dismissed her and how he'd moved on. I don't think she intended for a second on going through that again.
So TL contacts her through the Internet, he thinks she is a Valencia student, soon adapts his lifestyle right down to sushi and realizes she has to make a move when confronted on the check fraud etc.
Her house of cards had begun tumbling down around her.

Did she really think people would just buy the excuses she was giving them when they started asking about her daughter? Must have really burned her butt every time Caylee was brought up especially by this new group of people she had worked so hard at surrounding herself with, caring enough to ask about her.
Casey couldn't stand sharing attention with her child or with her mother. It doesn't take a huge leap of the imagination to see that she had figured out a Casey solution to those problems.

Sure, she had always partied, but things had changed. She wasn't planning on going back home when CA barged in to TL apartment that night demanding explanations and to me, this is very telling. My relationship is not the best with my mother by any means, but I can tell you that is the first place I would be had something traumatic happened to my child.
CA said something along the lines of; "Get your things, we're leaving." and Casey replied along the lines of "Ok, but I am coming back.(To Tonys place)"

She had also told friends she planned on moving to NY to be closer to TL.

The reason JG and others have said they don't recognize this Casey behind bars is simple. Casey is very good at putting on whatever front she thinks would work best to whomever she happens to be speaking to. Very obvious in the call home where she talks to Kristina, obvious in the interviews with LE and painfully obvious in the visits with her parents.
She is all over the place, at the same time she very aware of who she is doing it around. If there is one thing Casey is good at, it is reading other people and being aware of her surroundings because it is how she has been able to "blend" so long. When you have an honest to god mental illness, you aren't aware of such things. Why would you need to be? You are crazy, no need to put on airs.
Why do you think she most of all, was so annoyed at things being released to the public? We weren't supposed to see that.

Another reason she is unrecognizable behind bars, is because she does not have normal responses. She is not broken, crushed, emotionally spent. She is hardened, vacant and "pissed" when she is not flashing that phony smile at her legal team. These reactions would not be the case, especially if she were innocent or had given a rip about that child. Casey worries about Casey.

She is crazy alright, like a fox.

Just my opinion, as always.

There's no evidence of mental illness, but there's a lot to suggest Casey is a sociopath. Even her mother said she was a sociopath. Sociopaths have no conscious and are narcissistic, thinking only of themselves. Sociopaths are very good at acting, and will act a role depending on who they're with. People are very easily taken in by sociopaths. They think that what they're seeing is the real person, when it is only a role the person is playing. They're pretty convincing.

This is why JG said that the Casey he sees now, is not the Casey he knew. When Casey was involved in a relationship with JG, she was acting the role of a devoted girlfriend and good mother. This is the mask she presented to JG. What JG is seeing now, is simply the real Casey. The mask is off.