2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[cmsg2002]

Then what is the big deal with her and her lawyer saying that she's not paying anything? That would clear up this whole issue. And she was going to pay a landscaper to kill Kaine - I don't think she was going to get Kaine's permission to get that money, which means she can get her hands on money without him knowing about it. I don't blame him one bit for worrying about where all of this money is suddenly coming from if she did pay Houze.

But it's on Terri, not Kaine. She sent the text that started this whole thing. She now needs to answer for it one way or the other. It's as simple as that. Like someone said before, as long as Kaine knows none of that money belongs to him, I don't think he'll care where she got it from.

Other than the 'probable cause' language that was used in the RO by Kaine.....and alot of rumors and thus far, unsubstantiated allegations.....I don't understand why people believe this to be a fact. If there was such strong evidence...why no charges filed against TH? And I will put $$ on it, that there never will be because it was alot of huffing and puffing by LE IMO. The text was clarified as 'costing' that much...not that she had paid that much. And I think its fairly reasonable to say that was taken out of context. Yes, maybe Houze told TH that if this matter went to a full-blown trial, which wouldn't happen most likely for at least a year or more...yes, the costs could very well be in the $350,000 range.

If TH's divorce attorney and/or Houze represent that any funds they have rec'd were not marital assets, it is not relevant as to where that $$ came from. If it was $$ TH had stashed away somewhere, then that would be marital if it was earned or accumulated during the marriage. If its from relatives, etc. it really has no bearing whatsoever. All Kaine's atty is doing right now is rattling the cage, that's it.

 

[Donjeta]

Wait a sec. Can someone explain the Oregon law to me. We have discussed before that Kaine will have to pay a settlement out of the marital assets for Terri because he has all that money and Terri has nothing. But if Terri has $350.000 dollars it's all hers and not Kaine' s business in any way?

So what's Kaine's is also Terri's but what's Terri's is just hers?

 

[ami]

Does he not know how to read his own bank records?

If he has no missing money, then, it's not his...pretty simple.

And he does not have any right to know...suppose she has made some deal...

a trade in sex,
a flic
a story to the enquirer

what does it matter...she does not have to tell him.

The bottom line is that the money is not his, and his attorney's should be able to check his records if he, for some reason, cannot figure it out on his own.

They are fishing for somehting else...and Houze (aka Terri) is likely just making them ask correctly.

UGH! This whole things gives me a headache...I can't believe we are sitting here talking about where money is coming from when there is a child out there somewhere...how she's financing her attorney must be pretty dang important to distract him from Kyron...hope it helps him sleep at night.

If Terri had a secret bank account - Kaine would not know by looking at his own bank records. If Terri had a secret source of income - Kaine would not know by looking into his own bank records. If Terri was given a monetary gift or payment during their marriage that she didn't tell him about - Kaine would not know by looking at his own bank records. etc etc etc.

Why else would normal divorce proceedings include financial disclosure if it was as simple as looking at your own bank records? People hide money. People lie. Sometimes it is never discovered and the other person gets screwed. Other times someone slips up and mentions a sum of money - in writing - that gives the other person reason to suspect they are hiding an asset or debt, and then these things can be investigated.

 

[SurfieTX]

Does he not know how to read his own bank records?

If he has no missing money, then, it's not his...pretty simple.

And he does not have any right to know...suppose she has made some deal...

a trade in sex,
a flic
a story to the enquirer

what does it matter...she does not have to tell him.

The bottom line is that the money is not his, and his attorney's should be able to check his records if he, for some reason, cannot figure it out on his own.

They are fishing for somehting else...and Houze (aka Terri) is likely just making them ask correctly.

UGH! This whole things gives me a headache...I can't believe we are sitting here talking about where money is coming from when there is a child out there somewhere...how she's financing her attorney must be pretty dang important to distract him from Kyron...hope it helps him sleep at night.

It's a moot point, really. The judge ruled on it yesterday. There will be no abatement, and Terri has essentially 2 choices when she goes for the divorce hearing - defend herself or plead the 5th. I guess we shall see what happens.

 

[cypress]

She also had a huge settlement from a lawsuit over that restaurant, and I'm sure filed a lawsuit for the car accident. She's gotten lots of money over the years for J. Where is that money now?

It takes money to raise a child. I doubt J's adoptive father was paying a ridiculous amount of child support. What he paid, Terri probably used to pay for J's essentials. As far at the settlement goes, we don't know what she did with that money, but we don't know that she squandered it, either.

Sounds to me like Kaine knows how to manage his money and Terri does not. That is her fault, not Kaine's.

And you base this assumption on what? Kaine saying Terri spent money like water? IMHO, he seems like a pretty extravagant guy.

I think he indulged her a lot during the marriage instead of helping her to get her own career and own money. She chose not to work and earn any money for herself.

She did work quite a bit through their early relationship. She has worked at restaurants and subbed, but those aren't high-paying jobs.

And now she wants to complain because her former sugar daddy isn't giving her money anymore. She's used to getting it from other people, not earning it herself, unfortunately.

Actually, she wasn't complaining. I was expressing an opinion that this is worrisome to me.

If you want your own money, you work for it and earn it. You don't just sponge it off of your spouse for years and then complain when it's not there anymore. If Terri has no money, well tough s***. That is her problem, not Kaine's. And she shouldn't be bragging about how much her attorney costs if she can't afford to pay him, either.

She did work and earn money, but it may have only been enough to contribute, not to create assets of great worth. Also, how do we know Kaine didn't ask Terri to stay home with the kids? We don't.

I'm appalled at the tone of this post when I was expressing a simple opinion.

 

[wondering1]

It's a moot point, really. The judge ruled on it yesterday. There will be no abatement, and Terri has essentially 2 choices when she goes for the divorce hearing - defend herself or plead the 5th. I guess we shall see what happens.

I thought it was just a scheduling conference and that the abatement and attorneys fee issues are now scheduled to be heard together sometime in October. jmoo

 

[Aedrys]

Wait a sec. Can someone explain the Oregon law to me. We have discussed before that Kaine will have to pay a settlement out of the marital assets for Terri because he has all that money and Terri has nothing. But if Terri has $350.000 dollars it's all hers and not Kaine' s business in any way?

So what's Kaine's is also Terri's but what's Terri's is just hers?

BRAVO!!!! You said it way better than I could. There is SUCH a double standard here. So he needs to fork over money to her, but she should be able to have secret accounts and do what she wants. That makes absolutely no sense to me. He has every right to find out where that money came from. And SHE is the one who brought it up, regardless of how that text is interpreted. This whole issue simply could have been avoided if Terri had NOT texted MC about how much her new lawyer costs. That was HER bad decision, not Kaine's.

And now he can't question that? He should leave her alone to her secret fortune or leave her penniless after all she's done? He should just trust that she's not using money that belongs to him? Why are the standards continually lowered for Terri and but continually heightened for Kaine? If it were the other way around, and he was the one that was penniless, would anyone feel sorry for him and give him a break? Seems like he can't win no matter what he does, but Terri can do what she wants and still come out looking like a rose. That just isn't fair at all.

 

[Billylee]

It's a moot point, really. The judge ruled on it yesterday. There will be no abatement, and Terri has essentially 2 choices when she goes for the divorce hearing - defend herself or plead the 5th. I guess we shall see what happens.

There was no ruling on the abatement that I saw, according to this the arguments in that matter will continue in Oct.

In the end the only thing that was decided is the judge will hear arguments on the money and postponement in early October, and the contempt case will be in mid-September.

http://www.kval.com/news/local/101569728.html

 

[SurfieTX]

I thought it was just a scheduling conference and that the abatement and attorneys fee issues are now scheduled to be heard together sometime in October. jmoo

You are correct! (sorry for the mis-information to everyone!)

"Today's hearing dealt with whether to hold two separate hearings on Terri Horman's request to delay the divorce proceeding and Kaine Horman's motion to learn where Terri obtained money to pay for Houze, a high-profile criminal defense lawyer."

`snip

"Judge Meisenheimer decided he'd hold one hearing to consider both matters, on Oct. 7."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_moulton_horman_appears_i.html

 

[Billylee]

Maybe Terri went to court because she was hoping to see Kaine and look him in the eye, because she has nothing to hide (anymore). She hasn't seen him since he took her daughter away. Just a thought, because he certainly could have been there and had he been there, it would have been really interesting to see if either one looked at one another at all.

 

[debs]

BRAVO!!!! You said it way better than I could. There is SUCH a double standard here. So he needs to fork over money to her, but she should be able to have secret accounts and do what she wants. That makes absolutely no sense to me. He has every right to find out where that money came from. And SHE is the one who brought it up, regardless of how that text is interpreted. This whole issue simply could have been avoided if Terri had NOT texted MC about how much her new lawyer costs. That was HER bad decision, not Kaine's.

And now he can't question that? He should leave her alone to her secret fortune or leave her penniless after all she's done? He should just trust that she's not using money that belongs to him? Why are the standards continually lowered for Terri and but continually heightened for Kaine? If it were the other way around, and he was the one that was penniless, would anyone feel sorry for him and give him a break? Seems like he can't win no matter what he does, but Terri can do what she wants and still come out looking like a rose. That just isn't fair at all.

Whatever else it is, it is the law. Kaine cannot circumvent Terri's rights just to get information. He has the burden of proof and he cannot force Terri into anything which would possibly incriminate her. And it would be stupid for Terri to "just tell him" because she then circumvents her own rights. Even if she has nothing to hide, nothing squirreled away as a secret store, Kaine does not have the right to demand Terri incriminate (or exonerate) herself to his satisfaction. What she sent to MC was a reasonable private conversation. Makes one wonder why MC was there at all, like, for instance, to work for Kaine's divorce to gather information. Since it appears Terri was stupid enough to trust him, it seems reasonable that she would follow legal advice and stop helping those people who want to lob accusations at her unfounded.

 

[Billylee]

I find it interesting that Houze wanted two separate hearings for the matters. Why? Would one overide the other? I mean if TH was granted the delay in the divorce hearings, then would the second motion be thrown out or delayed also? If so, this makes it sound like the judge already has no intention of delaying the divorce. Hmmm?

 

[Donjeta]

Whatever else it is, it is the law. Kaine cannot circumvent Terri's rights just to get information. He has the burden of proof and he cannot force Terri into anything which would possibly incriminate her. And it would be stupid for Terri to "just tell him" because she then circumvents her own rights. Even if she has nothing to hide, nothing squirreled away as a secret store, Kaine does not have the right to demand Terri incriminate (or exonerate) herself to his satisfaction. What she sent to MC was a reasonable private conversation. Makes one wonder why MC was there at all, like, for instance, to work for Kaine's divorce to gather information. Since it appears Terri was stupid enough to trust him, it seems reasonable that she would follow legal advice and stop helping those people who want to lob accusations at her unfounded.

Are you saying that it's the law that the parties in a divorce case can choose to keep a secret stash of money hidden away and aren't obliged to reveal their assets to ensure a fair accounting and division of the property at the end of a marriage?

I don't understand how telling Kaine how much money she's got would incriminate her, I thought it was a matter of procedure in a dissolution case.

 

[Donjeta]

I find it interesting that Houze wanted two separate hearings for the matters. Why? Would one overide the other? I mean if TH was granted the delay in the divorce hearings, then would the second motion be thrown out or delayed also? If so, this makes it sound like the judge already has no intention of delaying the divorce. Hmmm?

Bunch argued that if the abatement was granted it would mean unnecessary work and cost for both attorneys preparing for the other hearing that would become moot if the divorce was abated.

At least that's how I took it.

 

[Aedrys]

It takes money to raise a child. I doubt J's adoptive father was paying a ridiculous amount of child support. What he paid, Terri probably used to pay for J's essentials. As far at the settlement goes, we don't know what she did with that money, but we don't know that she squandered it, either.

Well, her own lawyer is saying she's penniless and Kaine has lots of money. It just doesn't sound like to me that she was all that smart with her money. It's called you put money aside and SAVE it. That's what Kaine did. If Terri is penniless, that is her fault, not Kaine's.

And you base this assumption on what? Kaine saying Terri spent money like water? IMHO, he seems like a pretty extravagant guy.

No, I'm basing this on the fact that one time, she wanted Kaine to pay for her lawyer. She has made money an issue here. Kaine is not the one that initially brought this up. It only came up after she texted MC that her lawyer costs 350,000. If I found out my spouse was getting that kind of money from somewhere AFTER she wanted me paying for her lawyer, I sure are hell would want to know where she suddenly got money like that from.

She did work quite a bit through their early relationship. She has worked at restaurants and subbed, but those aren't high-paying jobs.

Exactly. She kept changing jobs, and never had a higher paying one. I've worked hard all of my life to get where I am. I do struggle at times because of debt, but I don't expect someone else to pay it for me or support me. She could have tried to get a career going, but instead she opted for lower paying jobs and probably didn't save any money from it. If she's penniless, that's her fault.

Actually, she wasn't complaining. I was expressing an opinion that this is worrisome to me.

I never said you were complaining at all. She is the one that initially wanted Kaine paying her for lawyer, so I base her complaining on that, and also with the fact that she doesn't want to reveal where her money is coming from. She can't have it both ways. She can't brag that her new lawyer costs 350,000 and NOT have someone question that.

She did work and earn money, but it may have only been enough to contribute, not to create assets of great worth. Also, how do we know Kaine didn't ask Terri to stay home with the kids? We don't.

I'm appalled at the tone of this post when I was expressing a simple opinion.

Again, I was talking about her, not you. If she didn't contribute a whole lot, then why is she entitled to a whole lot? That doesn't make sense to me. And she probably chose to stay home and not work. That it itself is not a bad decision, but to do that and then whine about being penniless in divorce proceedings is just wrong to me. And we don't know that Kaine has these vast resources - we only know what Terri's lawyer said. I'm not saying he's lying, but he sure could be embellishing to make his client look better.

I was basing everything off of her words and actions thus far. We can agree to disagree, but in no way was I attacking your opinion. Am I not allowed to have my own opinion here too? I thought that was in the rules, but correct me if I'm wrong.

All red is me.

 

[Donjeta]

Maybe Terri went to court because she was hoping to see Kaine and look him in the eye, because she has nothing to hide (anymore). She hasn't seen him since he took her daughter away. Just a thought, because he certainly could have been there and had he been there, it would have been really interesting to see if either one looked at one another at all.

What kind of an effect could she have hoped for that look to have on Kaine?

 

[cypress]

Yes, I agree, there is a double standard.

When Terri, having no money of her own, wanted money to move out of the marital home, the outcry was phenomenal. The majority supported Kaine's right to keep his assets to himself. What's his was his, and she didn't deserve any of it. And, although Terri has not been charged, much less convicted of anything, rumors and gossip fueled the aforementioned outcry.

Now that Terri's lawyer is being paid, although we don't know how, Kaine believes he has a right to that information and, perhaps, the money. So when Kaine left Terri, she wasn't entitled or deserving of his money, and I doubt anyone, much less Kaine, would've been agreeable to Terri probing his finances, but now that she does or may have money of her own, he's entitled to an accounting of her money?

 

[SurfieTX]

Are you saying that it's the law that the parties in a divorce case can choose to keep a secret stash of money hidden away and aren't obliged to reveal their assets to ensure a fair accounting and division of the property at the end of a marriage?

I don't understand how telling Kaine how much money she's got would incriminate her, I thought it was a matter of procedure in a dissolution case.

As seen in Hollyweird, that's what pre-nups are for. If she really had a bunch of cash for herself and he for himself, then a pre-nup would have been in order. It's not like this marriage was the first rodeo for either one of them. They both know and knew the process of getting divorced and settling custody/financial issues.

 

[gwenabob]

The issue is not what lawyers *want*, it is what they can actually *get*.

Most folks don't have access to that kind of cash in any way, shape or form. Hence the common practice of starting a case with a retainer.

When the retainer runs out, a new one may be paid, if something looks hairy, a new lump sum may be requested, but it's a rare client that can pay an estimated legal bill up front, and even if they can, an attorney is unlikely to request it and a client is unlikely to pay it. Nobody pays a mechanic, contractor, or doctor, no matter how good, for the entire cost up front.

Mr. Houze routinely defends very wealthy, high profile clients. He does not want for any clients. He defends people who CAN and DO pay up front. Geragos asked for and got paid in advance to defend Scott Peterson. His parents expected all the siblings to take out second mortgages to help pay Geragos.

If you don't pay your mechanic, you don't get your car back. If you have no insurance, it is indeed routine for a dentist or doctor to want to be paid at the time of service. I used to work for a dentist and not only did we expect to be paid up front by uninsureds, but we asked for the portion the insurance didn't cover for our insured patients.

If Terri cannot pay Houze halfway through the trial, and he is compelled to finish, how can he collect from her? All she needs to do is file bankruptcy.

If he is smart, and I think we all agree he is, he will get paid up front.

 

[debs]

Are you saying that it's the law that the parties in a divorce case can choose to keep a secret stash of money hidden away and aren't obliged to reveal their assets to ensure a fair accounting and division of the property at the end of a marriage?

I don't understand how telling Kaine how much money she's got would incriminate her, I thought it was a matter of procedure in a dissolution case.

He's not demanding to know how much she has in secret assets, though. He's demanding to know how she's paying for a criminal attorney. That firstly falls under privilege (even if she opened the door by stupidly texting MC ......well, anything really, let's be honest....but how much this attorney is going to cost). But that isn't to say (AGAIN!!) that is how much she has paid. And if she hasn't paid, it is none of Kaine's business. If, once they're divorced and Terri and Houze have made an agreement for payment post-marriage, it is their business, as well. Not Kaine's.

In fact, her divorce attorney assured the Court that Terri has no income and no assets. That should settle the matter. Why didn't it?