2011.01.05 Hearing TES Volunteer Computer Subpoena

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I, as happens too often, am slow at the gate and feel left in the dust ~ amazed by all the brilliance here. I would be disappointed if NJ Lawyer quit posting. As a matter of fact, I thought the Geraldo comment was in reference to what site was now posting the video that A News Junkie had sent to Muzikman to post. . .

I guess I'm the :loser: on many levels!!!

 

[cyberborg]

My issue with all of this, beside a seize and search of a citizen's whole computer and files is - what if they found pictures of Suburban drive? This area where Caylee's little remains were found was not an open field where one can easily say - look - 20 feet from this tree and fifteen feet from the edge of this ditch is where the remains were found. How would a photograph taken standing in underbrush that dense ever be proven it was the exact spot or even close to it? I don't believe there is any way to prove which part of this lot it was taken on at all.

And aside from that, JJ was posting and blogging during the time when he hoped the remains would be found, and although I congratulate him for his efforts in the search for Caylee, I also believe he got caught up in it all and was looking for his 15 minutes of fame - an "informed, recognized searcher" who could be posted to, be the center of some small fame, and be a somebody in the whole burst of media frenzy. Otherwise, who takes pictures while they are searching for the body of a small two year old?

How many posters here at WS suddenly held up their hands when the fiasco with Baez, his investigator and TES came up? Now I ask you, did you know these gentle posters were out searching? Did they come to WS and start posting their pictures? Not a peep until the TES/investigator harassment started. Not looking for fame....

JJ got caught up in it and found himself in a mess with an illegal tape as he ran for higher ground. And had to tell a more "real" story, because he could see the bear trap he almost fell into.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

I completely agree on the accuracy / value of the static photos ... they prove little given the undergrowth.

Lets not forget that JB's very own PI DC also went searching with his cohort who was videotaping. DC was being 'directed' and could have past close to where Caylees 'remains' were and got ... nada.

A video is a LOT more valuable in discerning the precise location than static photos and DC was an agent of the A's yet ... didn't get the goods to prove the 'absence of something'.

Having said that, I don't think JB is as interested in the technical 'science' of the photos more so to use them as a tool to infer reasonable doubt about timing of the dumping.

 

[LambChop]

Oh no! Please don't flee us NJL, your posts are truly informative and teach us alot. I think we actually all are on the same page about this for the most part. The defense is entitled to those photos if they exist. It was just the manner in which they went about getting them that is problematic.

As far as examining the camera. Didn't LE examine it when they discovered the unrelated clothing at Blanchard Park?. One other point that has not been discussed. Everyone keeps mentioning that JJ took photos of search sites. From what we have seen this is not 100% accurate, and can be misleading. Everything that we have seen seems to indicate that JJ took photos of positive search results. he took pictures when they found something at Blanchard Park, not simply the location itself. So the assumption that he took pictures elsewhere where nothing was found is probably pushing beyond a stretch. But even then I'm sure a narrowly targeted request or questions asked under oath probably would have been readily answered without JJ bringing his lawyer to bear and challenging the subpoena. And tossing such a broad subpoena before actually seeking to ask the questions of the witness under oath is essentially declaring "we think the witness is going to lie to us anyway. The information we plan on finding on his hard drive will prove that he is hostile us and would have lied if we had asked!" it's more than a bit of a circular reasoning problem. This is an example of classic JB reasoning that we have seen over and over. You're not supposed to declare the witness a liar or take action in that way until you actually ask the question.

I agree NJ should not leave. We all need to understand what the law is and it is very interesting to hear different opinions on the court decisions. For most of us here it is a learning process. The only difference is in the classroom you can't disagree with the teacher. Here disagreements lead to a better understanding of what we are actually seeing. It is all really very interesting, so don't go NJ....just buckle up. lol

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

bbm
We have seen and read many of Baez's motions that are too broad and unfocused.

I agree, this motion was too broad. I have been a transcriptionist for 30 years, recently retired, and I find it had to believe he didn't ask about photos...there is a format that is ingrained in every investigator and it's basic 101 to eek out every possible itsy bit of info, Although, I don't think it rises to ineffective council. That said. It is my opinion that this is a very dangerous road to go down for Baez and crew as it could bring up LB and JL. I think they have to ask themselves if it is worth it. My answer is no...however, I do think if a motion is written correctly, the photos will come in and it will only be good for the state. I am NOT an attorney.....and this is just my opinion.

Please stay NJ...and would love your input.

 

[The World According]

This is from April, you are damn straight Baez knew about Joe Jordan. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnoAq7wxxa8[/ame] Tim Miller a guest on the show that day.

Joe Jordan sure did make a mess of things by his letter to the detectives.
The date that Mark Nejame actually had hand delivered the document package of the 32 searchers? That is the date that Jose Baez knew about Joe Jordan. The amazing , huge amount of time and trouble the defense caused TES, and the court, for that matter, jumping u p and down about how desperately they needed the TES documents, all this time later he is only now getting around to deposing Joe? It is scary to me, literally, that fact, and that once he did depose him he didn't ask basic, fundamental questions.


I wish Casey had a serious lawyer, like NJ lawyer, who could do a proper job. This defense crew scares me. I wouldn't wish this sorry excuse for work they do on anyone. It is just downright unAmerican for her to have idiocy like this when her life is at stake.
Joe Jordan was included in the list of 32 searchers, the defense had a long time ago!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The important thing to remember is that Joe Jordan is NOT NEW NEWS to the defense. I will find the spot in the hearing when Mark Nejame informed the judge that the defense has had Joe Jordan's name...
hold on to your seats...
since they were first hand delivered the list of the 32 searchers that were in the relevant area!!!
Jose was claiming he couldn't read it, that the name was cut off at the top. Mark said, no sir, and provided the judge with the copy. Judge Strickland concurred the name was indeed legible.

So for him not to have deposed Joe Jordan and the other 32 folks on that list, until one year later and then claim there is new news is appauling to me!!!

If you recall this hearing, Mr. Nejame was especially frustrated and he turned around from the podium to face Jose and yelled come on over, stop by and review the papers for the love of God (paraphrasing).

From February, LAST YEAR
EquuSearch Attorney: Baez Motion Is A Waste Of Time
Nejame slaps down defense motion, asks for fees

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.wftv.com/news/22535671/detail.html


The lawyer for TES expected that the defense would retract their accusation that he released the TES documents to the press. When they did not, he filed a motion with the court, responding to that and their requests for all of the documents. The very experienced Mr. Nejame, sets out the defense is out of line, and has their facts wrong. Again.

Nejame asks the court to award TES attorney fees.
snip

"He has caused unnecessary attorney time and Court time to be wasted, especially since he has been fully advised of its misrepresentations and inaccuracies and nevertheless continues to proceed," NeJame wrote.

Baaaaam!

http://www.wftv.com/video/23056801/index.html
http://www.wftv.com/video/23057236/index.html
__________________ http://www.wftv.com/video/23979291/index.html

__________________

 

[Bittiness39]

I just like the logic of the defense (paraphrasing CM at some point a while back--he was talking to Kathi Belich I believe): "Some people (ummm like Joy Wray/Laura Buchanan) have said they searched the area where Caylee's remains were found--before her remains were found (or in the very close area) and these people said the area was NOT under water. Since the area was not under water...the remains were not there at the time those people were there, noticing the lack of water."

No water = remains were not there...ummmkay...

WHAT?


There is a TON of evidence that disputes that the remains were dumped after KC was in jail. A ton. The Pontiac Sunfire was not used to dispose of Caylee's remains after KC was arrested. Yet, the dead child was rotting in the Pontiac Sunfire. But according to the defense, it was just pizza and squirrels and bacon fodder...AIEEEE...

And yet, even if there were pictures JJ took showing that the area was indeed dry...these are overgrown, leafy, almost swampy woods...things are not exactly easy to find. It is like a saying my meme has, "East Texas is so dark at night that even if your own * was ringing, you couldn't find yourself in the dark."

O/T: All of us, at one time or another get ripped by various individuals for posting on true crime threads or for having the interest we do in a case like this. I realize that ICA's defense is putting a lot of unnecessary focus on our posts, or those with blogs, rather than putting forth imo a credible defense for their client. I am not ashamed of my interest in this case, nor in true crime as a whole. None of us should be. And none of us should allow a few other people to make us feel as though our wanting to post is somehow a bad thing. Just my two cents. Keep posting. I see nothing wrong with posting or in our interest in this case.

 

[cherishtoo]

WELL I CAN PROVE THAT THE TEAM READS HERE. The video I sent MUZIKMAN is on their website --- like client, like counsel - take whatever you want...........
LOL - CM stands for: Loss of LIBERTY -- just what the electric chair or LWOP (I am hoping you know that one) will give your client. Oh and IMHO, etc.

Grrrrrrrrrrr- your MISSION will fail. Again, IMHO....etc....

Your video also made the Examiner

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-ta...-watch-casey-anthony-hearing-on-photos-videos

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

The important thing to remember is that Joe Jordan is NOT NEW NEWS to the defense. I will find the spot in the hearing when Mark Nejame informed the judge that the defense has had Joe Jordan's name...
hold on to your seats...
since they were first hand delivered the list of the 32 searchers that were in the relevant area!!!
Jose was claiming he couldn't read it, that the name was cut off at the top. Mark said, no sir, and provided the judge with the copy. Judge Strickland concurred the name was indeed legible.

So for him not to have deposed Joe Jordan and the other 32 folks on that list, until one year later and then claim there is new news is appauling to me!!!

If you recall this hearing, Mr. Nejame was especially frustrated and he turned around from the podium to face Jose and yelled come on over, stop by and review the papers for the love of God (paraphrasing).

From February, LAST YEAR
EquuSearch Attorney: Baez Motion Is A Waste Of Time
Nejame slaps down defense motion, asks for fees

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.wftv.com/news/22535671/detail.html


The lawyer for TES expected that the defense would retract their accusation that he released the TES documents to the press. When they did not, he filed a motion with the court, responding to that and their requests for all of the documents. The very experienced Mr. Nejame, sets out the defense is out of line, and has their facts wrong. Again.

Nejame asks the court to award TES attorney fees.
snip

"He has caused unnecessary attorney time and Court time to be wasted, especially since he has been fully advised of its misrepresentations and inaccuracies and nevertheless continues to proceed," NeJame wrote.

Baaaaam!
__________________
__________________

Don't quote me....but I do believe I read last night he took the depo of JJ last May...gonna go look.

 

[The World According]

Don't quote me....but I do believe I read last night he took the depo of JJ last May...gonna go look.

Thank you, listen to this, Baez telling the judge that Joe's attorney assured him he would have Joe Jordan in court to testify for him, and he did not show up. It was the same attorney we saw yesterday. You just can't make this stuff up.
http://www.wftv.com/video/23056801/index.html
Here Tim explains Joe was wrong or wanting his fifteen minuted to write that letter to the cops that was wrong.

This was a very animated hearing!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnoAq7wxxa8[/ame]
http://www.wftv.com/video/23057236/index.html

Here is that unfortunate quote ( for the defense ) of Mr. Mason's on the courthouse steps

"Uh, yeah, it's been, the public has been made to believe that these people searched the exact area, um, where the body was, or tried to and couldn't. The fact is they didn't try to, and they didn't, they weren't there, and it was impassible at the time. So there's a lot of people who are mistaking things of what happened back in the summer of 2008 and what happened in the Winter of 2008."

Kathi had a field day with this apparent flip flop!! Too funny http://www.wftv.com/video/23979291/index.html

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

Thank you, listen to this, Baez telling the judge that Joe's attorney assured him he would have Joe Jordan in court to testify for him, and he did not show up. It was the same attorney we saw yesterday. You just can't make this stuff up.
http://www.wftv.com/video/23056801/index.html
Here Tim explains Joe was wrong or wanting his fifteen minuted to write that letter to the cops that was wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnoAq7wxxa8

Thanks!!! TWA...I knew it was a looong time ago. hehe

 

[Numbers]

Don't quote me....but I do believe I read last night he took the depo of JJ last May...gonna go look.

The motion for the photos says it was Dec 8, 2010.

 

[The World According]

I just like the logic of the defense (paraphrasing CM at some point a while back--he was talking to Kathi Belich I believe): "Some people (ummm like Joy Wray/Laura Buchanan) have said they searched the area where Caylee's remains were found--before her remains were found (or in the very close area) and these people said the area was NOT under water. Since the area was not under water...the remains were not there at the time those people were there, noticing the lack of water."

No water = remains were not there...ummmkay...

WHAT?


There is a TON of evidence that disputes that the remains were dumped after KC was in jail. A ton. The Pontiac Sunfire was not used to dispose of Caylee's remains after KC was arrested. Yet, the dead child was rotting in the Pontiac Sunfire. But according to the defense, it was just pizza and squirrels and bacon fodder...AIEEEE...

And yet, even if there were pictures JJ took showing that the area was indeed dry...these are overgrown, leafy, almost swampy woods...things are not exactly easy to find. It is like a saying my meme has, "East Texas is so dark at night that even if your own * was ringing, you couldn't find yourself in the dark."

O/T: All of us, at one time or another get ripped by various individuals for posting on true crime threads or for having the interest we do in a case like this. I realize that ICA's defense is putting a lot of unnecessary focus on our posts, or those with blogs, rather than putting forth imo a credible defense for their client. I am not ashamed of my interest in this case, nor in true crime as a whole. None of us should be. And none of us should allow a few other people to make us feel as though our wanting to post is somehow a bad thing. Just my two cents. Keep posting. I see nothing wrong with posting or in our interest in this case.

Here he is in all of his flip flopping glory
http://www.wftv.com/video/23979291/index.html, three minute mark
"Uh, yeah, it's been, the public has been made to believe that these people searched the exact area, um, where the body was, or tried to and couldn't. The fact is they didn't try to, and they didn't, they weren't there, and it was impassible at the time. So there's a lot of people who are mistaking things of what happened back in the summer of 2008 and what happened in the Winter of 2008."

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

That being so, still, they just can't subpoena a private citizen's computer! That's truly is a violation of our rights. Wonder what the date of the email from SA was? I'm just mind boggled at this point LOL (not to mean Lots of Luck)

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

The motion for the photos says it was Dec 8, 2010.

You're right. I just remembered this has been gone over and over...But they knew.

Maybe poor Joe was intimidated by the PI...sheez...a mess all they way around...you can betcha HHJP knows all about this.

 

[The World According]

That being so, still, they just can't subpoena a private citizen's computer! That's truly is a violation of our rights. Wonder what the date of the email from SA was? I'm just mind boggled at this point LOL (not to mean Lots of Luck)

http://www.wftv.com/video/23056801/index.html 17 minute mark..JOE JORDAN'S name was on the original list of 32 searchers. Rut row.It seems Jose is discussing that e mail in this hearing, he says he has a bombshell , two actually, Laura Buckanan and Joe Jordan.
Do you remember Joe Jordan standing him up as it were?

Although Jose did not allow the judge to keep them, he gave him photos of the ground area, TES photos I presume while he is arguing Joe Jordan this and Joe Jordan that. Oh my. You really truly cannot make this stuff up!!!
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/generic...io-file-archive-in-Casey-Anthony-murder-trial

Since he brought photos to court, as exhibits back then, when he was arguing to the court about Joe Jordan....of course he knew to ask him for photos in the depo. WOW. Mark did the only thing he could, mop the floor with this nonsense!!!

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

http://www.wftv.com/video/23056801/index.html
It seems Jose is discussing that e mail in this hearing, he says he has a bombshell , two actually, Laura Buckanan and Joe Jordan.
Do you remember Joe Jordan standing him up as it were?

Yes I remember...do you recall if the illegal recording was sealed? I know the SA told him they wanted no part of it LOL

Well...my final thought is, it isn't the first time someone has ummm fibbed in this case.

 

[The World According]

http://www.wftv.com/video/26171628/index.html
yes, it was sealed, it is discussed here in the state depo

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

Oh my goodness....I remember a time when I was called into court to swear to a deposition where an investigator said on a recording....."Do you remember when the guy kicked the bucket?" Of course, the family rocked his world. Life truly is stranger than fiction and "You just can't make this stuff up"!

 

[mitzi]

I have read this thread, and am wondering what is the possibility that JJ's pix of J Blanchard Park area were actually in the last discovery or one of the latest discoveries that have been passed to the defense, but not to us yet. Why suddenly now is Baez interested in possible pictures from Suburban Drive that JJ "might have" taken. JB "says" that he became aware of pix from searching out JJ's "handle" (hat) once he knew it from the deposition. Personally, I don't think JB is beyond telling a "mistruth" about how he came to know about the pictures. Anyone?

 

[Leila]

Bolded by me.

Have we ever actually heard HHJP agree to the 20 days? I noticed he looked a little smug when he said he was going back to write the order for this, but I didn't spot where he agreed to 20 days. JB told him he needs 20 days, because "well you won't give me 30" rather than telling the judge what each individual expert will probably or reasonably need. (on a side note JA did seem to do a breakdown on what each expert would roughly need and based his "staggered" request on that). From my watching all I saw was JB doing a song and dance and HHJP carefully doing nothing. So unless there was some agreement from outside the court, what are the chances that when he writes his order it will remain as he adjudicated it in court on Monday? 7 days?

I wouldn't be surprised to see HHBP schedule some evening hearings and Saturday hearings. I think that can be expected. The only person who might be surprised in JB, who still doesn't seem to take the court seriously.