2011.04.08 Frye Hearing Summary Thread

[faefrost]

DOH!

HHJP just cut the legs out from any "Infective Council" claim down the road.

 

[nursebeeme]

"if your clips don't discuss case law they will not be helpful to me"

-hhjp

 

[Chiquita71]

JB: probable cause level...
HH: when did they do arguments on harris?
JB: june 09, the law is so much in conflict for this to be admitted as probable cause.

 

[ZsaZsa]

HHP has that look on his face that says "Stop trying to tell ME what the law says". The more JB talks, the worse it gets...

 

[Chiquita71]

JB: there is no legal basis for the court to enter this evidence because it has never been done before. different types of dog evidence. you are going to say a dog is looking at a line up and admitting evidence. difference between that and drug evidence. they outlined a three pronged test. this type of line up evidence must be reliable. the dog must be reliable. you cannot say the evidence is reliable if the dog is not trained right. Garus was either right or wrong by the car, but wrong on suburban. how can we say this dog is reliable?

 

[wenwe4]

Outlined a 3 prong test: 1) reliable - dog never been trained off/on residual odor. look at Gerus he was right/wrong at the home, the car, we don't know but he was not reliable when he didn't alert on the remains on Suburban Ave.

two cars still isn't enough - in a photo line up isn't enough
there is not one single training in vehicle line up that was presented to court

HHBP - asking ramos(?)
JB in Ramos a lineup of 5 knives, 5 shirts, had the dog if the scent on the murder weapon and the scent of this specific item

Ramos reversed the decision because they found this type of evidence different than the other type . . . .

 

[momtective]

Watching the defense work their magic is like watching my children try to build a sky scrapper with tinker toys...they have such high hopes but they are attempting to do the impossible and eventually all their hard work crumbles to the ground.

 

[ynotdivein]

JB: Knows Ramos decision was reversed, but not terribly sure why. Goes to table to look. CJBP says, Just go ahead, I... and trails off.

 

[wenwe4]

JB - there were no records of the specific errors that this dog was making - that is problem here there are no records of when the dog was wrong. thru a previous agreement with the state - i think the state will argue coleman and frost - drugs were found in those - not a residual odor. Does not relate to the specific issues in this case - State cited both Trejos and Class from Maryland & Texas. Court utilized both confessions in those cases to . . . relaibility of the dogs. We dont have that in this case (****YEA CUZ KC WON'T CONFESS - IMO)

 

[Softail]

JB saying that if there was a dead body in the car, or in the back yard, there were other people that had access to those areas.

 

[FaerieB]

Decomposition from a live person?? WTH?

 

[Softail]

LDB is up. She said she hopes to be done by noon.

 

[cloud9]

Wait, what?

JB: "whether decomposition is from a live or dead..."


:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[sleutherontheside]

Right out of the gate....LDB corrects JB's date of March 2009 as being SEPTEMBER 2009.

AND....that the handlers and dogs were properly trained according to the defense expert Furton.

View attachment 14473

 

[ZsaZsa]

LDB gets up and clarifies what the Ramos case was all about. Nothing to do with cadaver dogs. What is before the court is not Officer Forgey's credibility, but whether the dog and handler were appropriately trained. Cadaver dogs alerts are widely accepted in Courts and have a history of reliability, for example after 9/11.
She is demolishing JB point by point...

 

[nursebeeme]

LDB driving home the point that the defense witness dr furton helped the state (that the dogs and handler were trained)

 

[Oakley]

LDB: "Lawyers aren't trained as often as these dogs":floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[ynotdivein]

KC just asked WS to hand her some files. She pointed at the file and asked a question, then he got up and brought her a binder.

 

[ZsaZsa]

LDB makes the point that dogs are evaluated much more often than Lawyers are, for skills and competency. Bravo!

 

[nursebeeme]

casey flips to page in binder... opens the clasps... and furiously writes note on legal pad rips it out... takes out a white page from the binder and is now writing on that as well...