2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

[mysteriew]

I think part of the dispatcher's problem in the 911 call was a problem of perception. I'm not sure he was aware of who he was talking to, maybe thought he was getting a call about a 'normal' visitation. So he may have been thinking he was talking to a grandma or friend who was upset that the 'supervised' rule was being ignored. I would guess that happens pretty frequently, and probably usually gets resolved without injury.

IMO he thought this was just an hysterical supervisor, and for that reason he wasn't too concerned. He may have thought the supervisor was just po'd because the parent was blocking the supervision order. Not a 'serious' emergency.

But what he did was ignore the seriousness of the fact that the court ordered supervised visitation for a reason. And that no matter who it is, it is serious when the parent tries to block the supervision. This could have been a case where the children were in danger of ongoing abuse, sexual abuse, or even in danger of intimidation because they were witnesses to some crime of the parents. As it was, it was a suicidal parent who decided to take the kids with him.

He had to get more info from the 911 caller I agree. But he had the option to roll an LE officer as soon as he determined the type of emergency. He had the option to make it a priority call. He didn't do that. He spent way too much time on the call, asking questions but not seeming to listen to the answers. He asked unneccessary questions. He made judgements ignoring a court order.

911 gets a lot of unneccessary calls and the dispatcher has to try to weed those out. And they are trained to weed those out. But IMO he heard the word visitation and immediately defaulted to a preconceieved judgement of non emergent. He didn't remember his training and he didn't listen to the caller. And to me, that is the major sin. The caller is his eyes on the situation and he wasn't listening to the caller. The social worker said court order, supervised visitation. The worker said smelled gas, blocked visit supervisor. The worker said life threatening and even that she was concerned for her own safety. But the dispatcher had already told himself, non emergent and didn't even hear what she said or totally discounted it.

 

[sayd]

I had to make a 911 call today.


I was babysitting my 8 1/2 month old grandson today at his house while mom and dad were out jogging. My grandson has had a cold and had been mildly feverish. We were playing with toys on the floor in the living room and he suddenly fell back and began having a seizure. No history of seizures or other medical conditions, other than this cold he has been enduring. Being an RN, I recognized it was a seizure right away. I secured the area around him, free of toys and objects he may injure himself on and ran to the kitchen to get a phone. I quickly realized my cellphone was dead and found his daddy's cellphone on the counter, I grabbed it and ran back to him, still seizing, and attempted to call 911. I realized quickly that I could not figure his phone out to make the call. I tried and tried but I could not bring up a dial function to call 911....all while realizing I did not know the address I was at, as they had only lived there for 3 months, about 4 blocks from me. I had just driven there routinely, never knowing the address.
I threw open the front door and yelled out for anyone to please call 911 if they could hear me, as I still struggled to figure his phone out in a major panic. My baby grandson was grey, full on tonic clonic seizures and I was stranded, He wasn't breathing and turning blue so I gave him two quick breaths, I looked up and dad was standing on the sidewalk. He ran in, took the phone and called 911. He is fine. We got him to ER and he had a febrile seizure, temp 101.7. He is doing just fine. I am so shaken. As an RN of 25 years, I was rendered ineffective in the home environment by...not having a phone I could call 911 on...and not knowing the address. I am just kicking myself.
So let me break it down for you. As a Grandma...I feel like I did what I could, what any Grandma may experience. As an RN...totally ineffective and unprepared out of my practising environment. If I were a supervisor of visitation, this would be my practising environment and I would be prepared with phone in hand (not in car) and address at fingertips (not in car). The difference is...she was "on the job" and I was not. Moral of the story? All should be prepared in the event of an emergency. I am prepared at work every day by protocols and expectations. I know what number to call in a code, where the phone is and the important info to report...what the problem is ...code blue, code grey, code orange and what room I am in for the appropriate team to respond immediately. As a grandma at home.. I encountered crisis without established, practiced protocol and it was a major FAIL. This SW was at her JOB. She should have been programmed and trained to respond like I do at my job, not like my day off at home, where I failed. We have since posted all pertinent info on a main board in the kitchen etc. The Nanny is to be trained in home emergency protocols, as well as any other caregivers, such as this dear Granny.
For what it's worth.

I so understand! I posted upthread that I was babysitting my grandkids and realized I didn't know their address either. ) I'm glad everything is ok!!! Sending you hugs!

 

[Concerned Papa]

In the first 110 SECONDS of a 6 minute 48 second 911 call beginning at 12:08 pm, this social worker told the operator:

(1) That she was there to provide supervision for COURT ORDERED visitation between a high profile murder suspect, Josh Powell, and his children.

(2) That he purposefully closed the door locking her out, and refused to allow her inside where the children were.

(3) That she needed help RIGHT AWAY!

(4) That DSHS and CPS were directly involved.

(5) The EXACT address including zip code.

(6) That she smelled gasoline.

Any one of these points should have gotten cars rolling IMMEDIATELY, yet according to the dispatch logs the first Deputy wasn't dispatched until 12:16 pm, arriving on scene at 12:29 pm.

What else, exactly, did this social worker need to say or say faster, do or do faster to get help for these children?

She gave this dispatcher the EXACT address 1 minute and 40 seconds into an emergency call that began at 12:08 pm. What difference would it have made if she had the address tattooed on the back of her hand, if the dispatcher was going to wait SIX MINUTES AND TWENTY SECONDS afterwards to send help?

 

[SuziQ]

Josh Powell: 911 dispatcher admits to being 'clumsy,' 'faltering'
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nat...patcher-says-he-was-clumsy-and-faltering.html

 

[Ronso]

"As I re-listen to the call I recognize now that I missed, for example, the fact that she said that she smelled gas. Now I heard her say that, but she... immediately followed that comment with 'I want to move my car out of the driveway.' Well, sitting in an idling vehicle, you would smell gas, so I didn't give it the significance that it deserved. I should have asked her more about that."

You smell gas when sitting in an idling vehicle?

Uh, maybe the exhaust, but not gas. There is a difference between those two smells....

*facepalm*

 

[mysteriew]

Josh Powell: 911 dispatcher admits to being 'clumsy,' 'faltering'
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nat...patcher-says-he-was-clumsy-and-faltering.html

I deplore what he did and how he did it. And I think that he should be severely disciplined, maybe even fired.

But I do agree with him that probably a faster response time by LE wouldn't have changed the outcome. IF LE had arrived they would not/could not have entered the home right away. After the home caught fire, the way it exploded would have prevented them from making a forcible entry. The only thing that might have been different would have been that it might have rushed him and it could have happened faster. But it would have happened regardless.

 

[jjenny]

You smell gas when sitting in an idling vehicle?

Uh, maybe the exhaust, but not gas. There is a difference between those two smells....

*facepalm*

She said she smelled gasoline, not gas. I don't believe 911 operator ever realized the smell of gasoline was coming from the house (as opposed to the car she wanted to pull out of driveway), because then presumably fire department should have been dispatched.

 

[suzihawk]

Josh Powell: 911 dispatcher admits to being 'clumsy,' 'faltering'
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nat...patcher-says-he-was-clumsy-and-faltering.html

Clumsy and faltering?! How about rude and condescending?

 

[jjenny]

With the timeline as we are presented now (while its not moments) it doesn't appear anything would have made a difference. With Petit murders, police was actually setting a perimeter outside and still all those people burned to death.
In this case, even if deputies were dispatched as soon as CW told 911 dispatcher the address, they still probably would have only made it to the scene after the fire started. And it's not likely they would have been trying to break into the house anyway, if they would have been able to make it to the house before the fire.

 

[Concerned Papa]

With the timeline as we are presented now (while its not moments) it doesn't appear anything would have made a difference. With Petit murders, police was actually setting a perimeter outside and still all those people burned to death.
In this case, even if deputies were dispatched as soon as CW told 911 dispatcher the address, they still probably would have only made it to the scene after the fire started. And it's not likely they would have been trying to break into the house anyway, if they would have been able to make it to the house before the fire.

That is clearly the case. The first Deputy was dispatched at 12:16 pm and arrived 13 minutes later at 12:29 pm. The 911 call by the social worker is logged as coming in at 12:08 pm.

Thirteen minutes later would still be 12:21 pm, five minutes AFTER the explosion at 12:16 pm.

 

[gwenabob]

That is clearly the case. The first Deputy was dispatched at 12:16 pm and arrived 13 minutes later at 12:29 pm. The 911 call by the social worker is logged as coming in at 12:08 pm.

Thirteen minutes later would still be 12:21 pm, five minutes AFTER the explosion at 12:16 pm.

Except the deputy was dispatched on a "routine" call, not a siren-lights-speed over there "Emergency" call. Might have made a difference. I think they could have been there within 5 minutes.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Even thouh the 911 operator was clearly not in attendance for that call he took, I seriously don't think it would have made a difference.

It may have saved a couple of deputies lives.

Josh Powell was intent on murder, 2 victims, but if pushed he'd have taken as many as would have forced their way into the inferno.

 

[annalia]

Except the deputy was dispatched on a "routine" call, not a siren-lights-speed over there "Emergency" call. Might have made a difference. I think they could have been there within 5 minutes.

But even if they got there in five minutes, police wouldn't have just come upon the scene and immediately barged right into the house would they, especially with children inside?

Knowing that there were children inside and not knowing if he had a gun or other weapon, wouldn't they first try to get him to answer the door then try to coax him out, waiting for other LE to arrive? I just can't see that LE would rush the house and and immediately try to kick the door in knowing two little boys were in there.

I think if JP saw police the house would have gone up in flames even faster. I just don't think anyone could have stopped it, the house was already doused ready to ignite before they arrived, it was just a matter of what exact moment he was going to do it.

JMHO

 

[jjenny]

I think the fire started 15-20 minutes after children got into the house. He appears to have hatcheted the children as soon as they showed up. That gave him time to send out his numerous e-mails and then start the fire. Given this timeline I don't see how anything could have made a difference (besides children not showing up at his house). He appears to have worked out all the details and those children weren't going to make it as soon as they got into his house. Even if deputies showed up before the fire they wouldn't try to break in. At most they could have knocked on the door, which means he still would have been able to start the fire.

 

[LadyL]

I don't think LE would've barged into the house

they would've sat outside, getting details from the SW, radioing for backup, contacting the supervisor, waiting for a negotiator, developing a plan with SWAT etc. etc.

if two or more of them decided to knock on the door first, it's probable Josh would've ignored them & possible they would've been injured or killed

and it's unlikely their presence on the street would've stopped Josh's plan

I don't like how the 911 dispatcher handled the call & his supervisors need to follow up with him but this case has been a FAIL on many other levels & sadly I believe those boys were destined to be murdered by their father somehow, someway, someday

 

[Elisaa444]

As far as the 911 dispatcher I do believe serious action needs to be taken regarding how he handled this emergency call. Even though it may not have changed what happened in this case the 911 dispatcher clearly needs more training. To make sure he doesn't misjudge any other emergency call where it DOES make a difference on the outcome of the emergency.


Moo moo moo moo

 

[Concerned Papa]

Except the deputy was dispatched on a "routine" call, not a siren-lights-speed over there "Emergency" call. Might have made a difference. I think they could have been there within 5 minutes.

BBM

I have no idea whether 5 minutes was possible or not, even with a "balls to the wall" approach.

Remember, in full knowledge the house had exploded, it has been documented that it took the Fire Department five minutes to arrive after being dispatched, and they were only one mile away.

I've seen no information regarding how far away the first Deputy was when dispatched.

As I've pointed out in previous posts, a collective analysis of all available information indicates that the door was slammed on these little boy's lives at approximately 12:03 pm. The house exploded 13 minutes later at 12:16 pm.

Sadly, I think their fate was sealed the moment that door was slammed in the SW's face.

 

[Elisaa444]

But even if they got there in five minutes, police wouldn't have just come upon the scene and immediately barged right into the house would they, especially with children inside?

Knowing that there were children inside and not knowing if he had a gun or other weapon, wouldn't they first try to get him to answer the door then try to coax him out, waiting for other LE to arrive? I just can't see that LE would rush the house and and immediately try to kick the door in knowing two little boys were in there.

I think if JP saw police the house would have gone up in flames even faster. I just don't think anyone could have stopped it, the house was already doused ready to ignite before they arrived, it was just a matter of what exact moment he was going to do it.

JMHO

I agree. Sadly, when a Pure EVIL Monster has a plan he will follow it through one way or another. It is sickening.

Moo moo moo moo

 

[Wagara]

I deplore what he did and how he did it. And I think that he should be severely disciplined, maybe even fired.

But I do agree with him that probably a faster response time by LE wouldn't have changed the outcome. IF LE had arrived they would not/could not have entered the home right away. After the home caught fire, the way it exploded would have prevented them from making a forcible entry. The only thing that might have been different would have been that it might have rushed him and it could have happened faster. But it would have happened regardless.

I agree that it probably couldn't have been stopped anything but that wasn't his call to make. I don't hold him responsible for the children's deaths but I do hold him responsible for his attitude, his dismissive nature, and his mean-spiritedness. He made a horrible situation even worse. I can only imagine how he handles everyday calls but I'd guess "dismiss-disconnect."

 

[rotterdam]

Even thouh the 911 operator was clearly not in attendance for that call he took, I seriously don't think it would have made a difference.

It may have saved a couple of deputies lives.

Josh Powell was intent on murder, 2 victims, but if pushed he'd have taken as many as would have forced their way into the inferno.

I do so agree with you. It could have been so much worse with more folks getting hurt and/or killed. The bumbling 911 operator in a way possibly saved lives.
The only way these horrible murders could have been prevented is with no visitation at all and Josh locked away, preferably in a mental institution , and restrained in a straight jacket. He was very determined.