4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[Cool Cats]

Published May 10, 2023 10:28am EDT

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger hires new lawyer​

Bryan Kohberger's new defense lawyer known for 'America's Most Wanted' case​

Elisa G. Massoth, PLLC Attorney - certified to defend death penalty cases

Massoth claims on her website to be "one of the top criminal defense lawyers in Idaho."

One of her previous cases includes the overturning of a conviction for a man accused of attempted murder and kidnapping. The case appeared on "America's Most Wanted," and he received four consecutive life sentences plus 50 years, according to the National Registry of Exonerations.

However, Massoth, on appeal, convinced that court that the witness had mistakenly identified her client.

Edwina Elcox, a Boise-based criminal defense attorney who previously represented Lori Vallow and is not connected to Kohberger's case, said Massoth has a strong reputation opposing "the might of the government" in Idaho courts.

Massoth joins Kohberger's defense shortly after Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson called in backup from the Idaho Attorney General's Office, bringing in two high-powered assistant attorney generals from Boise.
Thompson asked the court for their "expertise" and "the additional resources" their office could provide. The request was granted that same day by District Judge John Judge, court records show.

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger hires new lawyer

University of Idaho student murders suspect Bryan Kohberger added a new private defense lawyer to his team this week as his preliminary hearing approaches.

www.foxnews.com

Idaho Lawyer - Elisa G Massoth PLLC

Need an attorney in Idaho? Talk to an experienced attorney with a proven track record in Criminal Defense, Civil Law, and Estate Planning.

kmrs.net

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

SBMFF

But was it a lie? I've never been to rural PA so can't comment on whether or not they do or don't have crosswalks. I do know that some rural areas I've been in on the west coast don't have them. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. But yeah, he definitely played the "I'm not familiar with crosswalks were I'm from" card to get out of a ticket. And it worked! lol

A few key facts from rural communities:

• Children who live in rural areas are 25% more likely to be overweight than children who live in urban areas.
• Rural children (and adults) have lower levels of physical activity.
• Small towns and rural areas often have fewer safe walking conditions, like sidewalks, street lighting and crosswalks.

Safe Routes to School in Rural Communities makes walking and biking fun

Safe Routes to Schools in Rural Communities is making walking and biking safe and convenient for kids at all schools in the state of Oregon.

www.oregonsaferoutes.org

He lied. He attended academic institutions his entire life where there are crosswalks, including DeSales. Take a Google tour around the pub/brewery where he was confronted about his repeated inappropriate behavior to servers. There are crosswalks.

IIRC, someone posted here the PA law is substantively no different than WA law.

All MOO & based on publicly avail info, I’m comfortable saying he lied to the WSU PD officer. It was intentional, calculating, & manipulative. MOO & YMMV, of course.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I'll go do that right now - I do it all the time (it's usually what I do first). It enhances observation of body language and micro-expressions, of course.

Starting just before 3:00, he does become animated and his facial expression becomes, generally speaking, irritated or angry. At around 3:20, he gives a hard stare (a kind of confrontational gesture), At 3:24 he is either feigning puzzlement or is actually puzzled by the variation in traffic laws.

Just before 8:50 and following, he attempts to continue to look puzzled, but has a faint sneer - so I do see what you're saying. But overall, he stays fairly respectful - he's clearly a bit nervous, but most people are when interacting with cops.

She writes him no ticket at all and spends about 10 minutes, not counting the time for the actual pull over.

I just couldn't help marveling at his supraorbital ridge (browridge) and its relative robustness (and his deep-socketed eyes). Very common in men of Northern European ancestry, which I assume him to be. I wonder what the Parabon (genetic facial reconstruction company) method would have shown if they had his DNA.

Right — I wouldn’t claim he was disrespectful at all.

For me, his eye movements were remarkable. LOL — maybe his supraorbital ridge made them appear more obvious to me than warranted? Now I’m going to have to watch again to see if that potentially skewed my interpretation. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[maconrich]

He lied. He attended academic institutions his entire life where there are crosswalks, including DeSales. Take a Google tour around the pub/brewery where he was confronted about his repeated inappropriate behavior to servers. There are crosswalks.

IIRC, someone posted here the PA law is substantively no different than WA law.

All MOO & based on publicly avail info, I’m comfortable saying he lied to the WSU PD officer. It was intentional, calculating, & manipulative. MOO & YMMV, of course.

Near the end of the video he does clarify that they don't have crosswalks where he lives in rural PA - unless he visits an area that does have them. And he seemed to understand the not blocking a crosswalk part (which he brought up). FWIW, MOO and all of that.

 

[10ofRods]

He lied. He attended academic institutions his entire life where there are crosswalks, including DeSales. Take a Google tour around the pub/brewery where he was confronted about his repeated inappropriate behavior to servers. There are crosswalks.

IIRC, someone posted here the PA law is substantively no different than WA law.

All MOO & based on publicly avail info, I’m comfortable saying he lied to the WSU PD officer. It was intentional, calculating, & manipulative. MOO & YMMV, of course.

TBF, I am a little surprised that I don't see any crosswalks near the high school he attended nor anywhere close by (very different to the semi-rural area where I grew up - we did have very well marked crosswalks, now with those buttons that make a flashing light).

There are indeed crosswalks near that pub where he was confronted. Many of them. And since he went there more than once, he would have had to drive through the town (where there are many more crosswalks).

I can't say if it was intentional, although that seems likely. I mean, maybe he just constantly says odd, untrue things in order to watch people's faces and see how they react. The community college he attended also appears to have crosswalks nearby - although, TBH, not nearly as many as I would have expected. The things I end up pondering due to WS!

When I think about his two traffic stops in Pullman/Moscow area, his issues with other students, his issues with the prof and as a TA, and his apparent lack of a local support system, I think he snapped and I'd like to know more about that. His demeanor in a traffic stop is obviously going to be more tense than in other contexts, but it sounds as if he was socially inappropriate on several occasions (I had forgotten about the pub). I also figure he mostly attended online school once he was past community college (perhaps even there, it was online).

IMO.

 

[Boxer]

He lied. He attended academic institutions his entire life where there are crosswalks, including DeSales. Take a Google tour around the pub/brewery where he was confronted about his repeated inappropriate behavior to servers. There are crosswalks.

IIRC, someone posted here the PA law is substantively no different than WA law.

All MOO & based on publicly avail info, I’m comfortable saying he lied to the WSU PD officer. It was intentional, calculating, & manipulative. MOO & YMMV, of course.

Lying to police about everything having to do with getting out of a ticket is fairly common. Police are aware.
MOO the traffic stop shows he is unpleasant to deal with, but not an uncommon level of liar.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

TBF, I am a little surprised that I don't see any crosswalks near the high school he attended nor anywhere close by (very different to the semi-rural area where I grew up - we did have very well marked crosswalks, now with those buttons that make a flashing light).

There are indeed crosswalks near that pub where he was confronted. Many of them. And since he went there more than once, he would have had to drive through the town (where there are many more crosswalks).

I can't say if it was intentional, although that seems likely. I mean, maybe he just constantly says odd, untrue things in order to watch people's faces and see how they react. The community college he attended also appears to have crosswalks nearby - although, TBH, not nearly as many as I would have expected. The things I end up pondering due to WS!

When I think about his two traffic stops in Pullman/Moscow area, his issues with other students, his issues with the prof and as a TA, and his apparent lack of a local support system, I think he snapped and I'd like to know more about that. His demeanor in a traffic stop is obviously going to be more tense than in other contexts, but it sounds as if he was socially inappropriate on several occasions (I had forgotten about the pub). I also figure he mostly attended online school once he was past community college (perhaps even there, it was online).

IMO.

Good point about the online aspect! I watched interviews with fellow DeSales students, so we know he attended in person at least some.

“I mean, maybe he just constantly says odd, untrue things in order to watch people's faces and see how they react.”

I think that’s possible & is what struck me about that WSU PD traffic stop. I remember when he was arrested, some people understandably thought he looked creepy. I wasn’t in that camp, but my “creep” detector increases each time I watch/listen to him in video/audio.

I have a bff who lives in a much more rural part of PA who guffawed at the notion that a 28-year-old college educated person would claim ignorance about crosswalks.

All MOO & I appreciate all who contribute to these conversations while we continue to await the preliminary hearing & more info. So much interesting-to-me speculation of things that I’d not thought of!

 

[Nichevo]

Maybe his has been over analyzed, but I only see cosmetic differences between 5th generation Hyundai Elantra Sedans. The platform and sheet metal remain unchanged for the entire series, because IMO retooling metal parts is expensive and most (all?) of the changes involve plastic parts: Bumper covers, grills, lights, and reflectors. In fact, Hyundai refers to the update to the 2014 model (2014-2015 models) as a “facelift”. The way I see it, all Six model years share easily 90% or more of the same parts. Lights were updated to LED, but would that really be evident at night with low resolution security cams? The shape of the fog lights were changed, and the rear reflectors were moved outward. Some other changes were made to the rear bumper as well. IMO, most of these differences would be tough to spot at the resolution of most security cameras. All MOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Lying to police about everything having to do with getting out of a ticket is fairly common. Police are aware.
MOO the traffic stop shows he is unpleasant to deal with, but not an uncommon level of liar.

Sure — many people routinely try to get out of traffic tickets. I’ve been on many ride-alongs with local cops here over the years & the excuses can be entertaining!

For me, it’s the kind of lie he went to that was telling to me … and his attempt to bait the cop into absurdity. And his non-verbal communication. All MOO & YMMV!

 

[Boxer]

Sure — many people routinely try to get out of traffic tickets. I’ve been on many ride-alongs with local cops here over the years & it the excuses can be entertaining!

For me, it’s the kind of lie he went to that was telling to me … and his attempt to bait the cop into absurdity. And his non-verbal communication. All MOO & YMMV!

Agree. A total jerk is MOO.

 

[jepop]

Well if a party does not have something that it is supposed to have, they can say they don't have it. If they are asked again, they need to explain WHY they don't have it and who does have it.

RBBM: Wondering, if it is a case of the state not being in possession of some/all/a number of the six items in the defense's motion, then under the Orders to Compel Rule (16 (K)) would the reasons be made clear when the court issues its order? Looking at the six items, I get the feeling that there may be a number of different reasons for why the items have not been produced. State's ongoing responses to discovery leave open a possibility that some(?) could have potentially fallen under the "work product" exception at the time motion was filed? MOO

Some questions just came to me when typing; -do we know that the state hasn't written/and or spoken to defense separately about this matter already in some way. Possible? Would that be something listed on the Court Page? Or maybe, is there a formal/transparent mechanism in the rules for the state to let the defense know they don't have something and if they are asked again, why they don't have something and who does have it? It seems to me that the State have been asked for things through the Defense's Supplemental Requests, and responded to those requests in the prescribed manner - the responses as per ICR rules. So maybe is there another way for the state to say it does not have something and then later explain why they don't have it and who does have it? Or is a motion through ICR Rule 16 (K) the way that this can happen?

Genuine questions, hope they make some sense. TIA if they are relevant. INAL

MOO

ETA: last sentence of para 2.

 

[I'm Nobody]

Sorry to interrupt but I confirmed the Scholarship Funds today from very nice people working at the U of Idaho.
How to give to the one or all four individual scholarship funds:

Xana Kernodle Scholarship Fund
The Kernodle Family will match dollar-for-dollar gifts to the fund, up to $10,000.
University of Idaho Foundation
875 Perimeter Dr MS 3143
Moscow, ID 83844-3143
include “EE854 – Xana Kernodle Scholarship Endowment” in the memo line on the check/CC payment.
You can also call the UI Foundation at (208) 885-4000 and make a donation over the phone by credit card.

Ethan Chapin Memorial Scholarship
Created by Sigma Chi Foundation
Ethan Chapin Scholarship/ Sigma Chi Foundation

Kaylee Goncalves Memorial Scholarship Endowment
Go to this link - Ways to Give | University of Idaho
Click the Give Online Now* gold bar button
Under Designation* go to the Make your selection(s) fill in bar
Type in "Kaylee Goncalves Memorial Scholarship Endowment"

Maddie May Mogen Scholarship
Go to this link - Ways to Give | University of Idaho
Click the Give Online Now* gold bar button
Under Designation* go to the Make your selection(s) fill in bar
Type in "Maddie May Mogen Scholarship"


Vandal Healing Garden and Memorial
Donations of money and/
OR creative ideas/your visions Call for Inspiration - Healing Garden and Memorial

For further questions, please contact Jeff Pilcher, University Advancement, 208-885-6136.

Spring 2023 Commencement is Saturday, May 13--Moscow, ID

 

[Sundog]

Idaho murder victim’s former sorority sister breaks silence on weeks after tragedy: ‘A lot of girls didn’t come back’

“There were a lot of girls that didn’t come back after Thanksgiving,” she said.

nypost.com

Not sure if New York Post is approved MSM on WS, so I am reporting my post to moderators.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Idaho murder victim’s former sorority sister breaks silence on weeks after tragedy: ‘A lot of girls didn’t come back’

“There were a lot of girls that didn’t come back after Thanksgiving,” she said.

nypost.com

Not sure if New York Post is approved MSM on WS, so I am reporting my post to moderators.

I don’t recall if it was posted here, but here’s the original 5/4/23 article the NY Post … borrowed from:
In depth: The U of I comes to the close of a tragic, turbulent school year

Another article worth sharing, MOO, comes from the Argonaut, the UI student paper, on 5/7/23:
Moscow leaders reflect on homicides

HTH & #VandalStrong

 

[Cool Cats]

Maybe his has been over analyzed, but I only see cosmetic differences between 5th generation Hyundai Elantra Sedans. The platform and sheet metal remain unchanged for the entire series, because IMO retooling metal parts is expensive and most (all?) of the changes involve plastic parts: Bumper covers, grills, lights, and reflectors. In fact, Hyundai refers to the update to the 2014 model (2014-2015 models) as a “facelift”. The way I see it, all Six model years share easily 90% or more of the same parts. Lights were updated to LED, but would that really be evident at night with low resolution security cams? The shape of the fog lights were changed, and the rear reflectors were moved outward. Some other changes were made to the rear bumper as well. IMO, most of these differences would be tough to spot at the resolution of most security cameras. All MOO

Interesting photos. "A photo is worth a thousand words."
I love photos, floor plans, charts, maps, (especially Court Motions) all that "stuff."

One reason I come to WS is that posters do such a great job posting and linking documents, reports, Twitter, and more, especially Court Motions, etc...

Thanks Sleuths!

I believe that only one thing matters with the car. Period. The State has to prove one thing about the car to the jury, and that is .......

That Kohberger's car matches the State's vehicle photos from that night, November 12 - 13.
It doesn't matter that the year of the car was changed from 2013 to 2015.

Why?

Because the photos of the car never changed. They are what they are. Either Kohberger's car matches these photos or it doesn't. For example, they can say the car is from 2010 and it doesn't change the photo evidence in any way.

The jury will see these photos and the FBI car expert can specifically explain to the jury how these photos look like a 2013 car. Then explain to the jury how these photos look like Kohberger's 2015 car.

The car in the photos can look like both. It can look like a 2013 car and look like a 2015 car.

So why does the FBI think this is Kohberger's 2015 car instead of someone else's 2013 car?

Because it is Kohberger's phone - not somebody else's - that lines up with where the car was coming and going from that night. This rules out the car being a 2013 car, and rules out the car belonging to someone else.

I have been following a Case where a "cell tower dump" was done. LE got a list of all the cell phones that pinged on specific towers in a specific time frame. Only the suspect's phone pinged on all the relevant cell towers they were looking at, and in that specific timeframe of the crime.

Kohberger's phone is likely the only phone traced that night to the exact time and direction that the 2015 car was traveling in. The 2015 car seen on those videos, the videos the jury will see.

But couldn't someone else have been on King Rd. that night without their phone, without phone evidence?
A killer doesn't have to have their phone with them.

Answer is yes. So why BK?

BK matches the witness description. But couldn't someone else match that description?

Answer is yes. So why BK?

Think....DNA

 

[schooling]

Maybe his has been over analyzed, but I only see cosmetic differences between 5th generation Hyundai Elantra Sedans. The platform and sheet metal remain unchanged for the entire series, because IMO retooling metal parts is expensive and most (all?) of the changes involve plastic parts: Bumper covers, grills, lights, and reflectors. In fact, Hyundai refers to the update to the 2014 model (2014-2015 models) as a “facelift”. The way I see it, all Six model years share easily 90% or more of the same parts. Lights were updated to LED, but would that really be evident at night with low resolution security cams? The shape of the fog lights were changed, and the rear reflectors were moved outward. Some other changes were made to the rear bumper as well. IMO, most of these differences would be tough to spot at the resolution of most security cameras. All MOO

I know someone who owned a 2013 for 6 years. They purchased it brand new in 2012.

I was with them when they were shopping their car around for the best trade deal. Their car was next to a 2015 and they couldn't tell the difference......

Until the car was turned on. IMO the LEDs in the 2015 make/made a big difference. And modernized the look of the car, especially at night. And the brightness difference was stark. After they didn't find a reasonable trade in deal they considered doing a LED conversion to their car to update it with the 2015 look.

How this translates to video when lights tend to blur and cluster, I don't know.....? Why did the expert initially confuse the two? How quickly did he notice this confusion and why wasn't it communicated to the public? All of those questions will be answered soon.

If prosecutors had any doubts of the car. They wouldn't have relied on it in the PCA as much as they did. Particularly when the car leaves the area of the campus and his apartment. They had enough with cellular, dna, and the likely brightly lit WA videos.

I think ultimately the grocery store video (day after the murders) will be crucial and key to connecting the two cars. The one on the night of the crime to the one BK is driving the next morning...both linked to the same cell tower positioning and number.

 

[10ofRods]

RBBM: Wondering, if it is a case of the state not being in possession of some/all/a number of the six items in the defense's motion, then under the Orders to Compel Rule (16 (K)) would the reasons be made clear when the court issues its order? Looking at the six items, I get the feeling that there may be a number of different reasons for why the items have not been produced. State's ongoing responses to discovery leave open a possibility that some(?) could have potentially fallen under the "work product" exception at the time motion was filed? MOO

Some questions just came to me when typing; -do we know that the state hasn't written/and or spoken to defense separately about this matter already in some way. Possible? Would that be something listed on the Court Page? Or maybe, is there a formal/transparent mechanism in the rules for the state to let the defense know they don't have something and if they are asked again, why they don't have something and who does have it? It seems to me that the State have been asked for things through the Defense's Supplemental Requests, and responded to those requests in the prescribed manner - the responses as per ICR rules. So maybe is there another way for the state to say it does not have something and then later explain why they don't have it and who does have it? Or is a motion through ICR Rule 16 (K) the way that this can happen?

Genuine questions, hope they make some sense. TIA if they are relevant. INAL

MOO

ETA: last sentence of para 2.

I don't know about Idaho, but where I am, it's entirely possible that the various sides have spoken to each other, but that the defense still has to protect their client's rights by getting a judge to sort the issue. There are several ways for the State to indicate its issues, but eventually, they will either have to do it in front of judge (if the defense isn't satisfied with the explanation) and then the Judge will decide if the State has good reason or not.

I don't think a motion is the only way it can happen (I know of many examples where things were worked out without a motion). But at some point, the defense really has to make it part of the record if certain items thought to exist or to have been documented do not exist or have not been discovered (because the State cannot later act as if those conversations, reports or notes existed or took place).

If the Defense does not believe the State, then a motion is the way to go. Sometimes motions are withdrawn when things are finally produced or settled (errors get made; things are mislabeled, etc). If the State has already told the Defense that X exists (has referred to it but hasn't produced it in a timely fashion), filing a motion protects their client.

IMO.

 

[schooling]

Published May 10, 2023 10:28am EDT

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger hires new lawyer​

Bryan Kohberger's new defense lawyer known for 'America's Most Wanted' case​

View attachment 421332
Elisa G. Massoth, PLLC Attorney - certified to defend death penalty cases

Massoth claims on her website to be "one of the top criminal defense lawyers in Idaho."

One of her previous cases includes the overturning of a conviction for a man accused of attempted murder and kidnapping. The case appeared on "America's Most Wanted," and he received four consecutive life sentences plus 50 years, according to the National Registry of Exonerations.

However, Massoth, on appeal, convinced that court that the witness had mistakenly identified her client.

Edwina Elcox, a Boise-based criminal defense attorney who previously represented Lori Vallow and is not connected to Kohberger's case, said Massoth has a strong reputation opposing "the might of the government" in Idaho courts.

Massoth joins Kohberger's defense shortly after Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson called in backup from the Idaho Attorney General's Office, bringing in two high-powered assistant attorney generals from Boise.
Thompson asked the court for their "expertise" and "the additional resources" their office could provide. The request was granted that same day by District Judge John Judge, court records show.

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger hires new lawyer

University of Idaho student murders suspect Bryan Kohberger added a new private defense lawyer to his team this week as his preliminary hearing approaches.

www.foxnews.com

Idaho Lawyer - Elisa G Massoth PLLC

Need an attorney in Idaho? Talk to an experienced attorney with a proven track record in Criminal Defense, Civil Law, and Estate Planning.

kmrs.net

I'm honestly surprised it wasn't anyone more prominently known...as it tends to go with things like this. The usual suspects will do their rounds of auditions on cable news. Gauge public interest, outrage, and how strong the case is and then volunteer their services in exchange for the publicity.

This is all MOO I'm not saying that this attorney has those specific intentions in mind....

 

[maskedwoman]

These are attorneys on a death penalty case. I am expecting a higher and more specific level of language than the standard (what sounds like) templated version of we gave what we have. I can suspend disbelief and say maybe they don't have the Moscow PD notes. But then the question is WHY. How is it possible that they don't? IMO, that in and of itself requires further explanation.

MOO.

This isn't yet a death penalty case. It's shaping up to be one, certainly. But it is not one today. IANAL, so from my layperson's perspective, if stating "I have given you everything I have" is the true and right answer, then I would expect that to suffice no matter the charges. I don't see how "everything" would require amplification.

OTOH, if the true and right answer is "I have given you everything except a, b, and c" then I agree that the DA should at least state why a, b, and c have not been provided. MOOooo

 

[jepop]

Interesting photos. "A photo is worth a thousand words."
I love photos, floor plans, charts, maps, (especially Court Motions) all that "stuff."

One reason I come to WS is that posters do such a great job posting and linking documents, reports, Twitter, and more, especially Court Motions, etc...

Thanks Sleuths!

I believe that only one thing matters with the car. Period. The State has to prove one thing about the car to the jury, and that is .......

That Kohberger's car matches the State's vehicle photos from that night, November 12 - 13.
It doesn't matter that the year of the car was changed from 2013 to 2015.

Why?

Because the photos of the car never changed. They are what they are. Either Kohberger's car matches these photos or it doesn't. For example, they can say the car is from 2010 and it doesn't change the photo evidence in any way.

The jury will see these photos and the FBI car expert can specifically explain to the jury how these photos look like a 2013 car. Then explain to the jury how these photos look like Kohberger's 2015 car.

The car in the photos can look like both. It can look like a 2013 car and look like a 2015 car.

So why does the FBI think this is Kohberger's 2015 car instead of someone else's 2013 car?

Because it is Kohberger's phone - not somebody else's - that lines up with where the car was coming and going from that night. This rules out the car being a 2013 car, and rules out the car belonging to someone else.

I have been following a Case where a "cell tower dump" was done. LE got a list of all the cell phones that pinged on specific towers in a specific time frame. Only the suspect's phone pinged on all the relevant cell towers they were looking at, and in that specific timeframe of the crime.

Kohberger's phone is likely the only phone traced that night to the exact time and direction that the 2015 car was traveling in. The 2015 car seen on those videos, the videos the jury will see.

But couldn't someone else have been on King Rd. that night without their phone, without phone evidence?
A killer doesn't have to have their phone with them.

Answer is yes. So why BK?

BK matches the witness description. But couldn't someone else match that description?

Answer is yes. So why BK?

Think....DNA

I don't think there will be any problem showing that the 2014-2015 elantra captured on cameras heading in a direction consistent with leaving Pullman at c2.50ish is BK's car. Nor that the approx five camera captures beginning at Johnston Rd and ending on north on NE Stadium Way Pullman rc5.25-5.30am are showing BK's car. Because... BK's phone pings have been shown to be congruent with all of those camera captures (Per PCA). And through BK's phone pinging at 4.48am near Blaine and then continuosly pinging all the way until the 2014/-2015 elantra is captured on Johnston Road, it will also probably not be too difficult for prosecution to successfully infer that BK's car was south of Moscow near Blaine at 4.48am. That's the starting point from what we know so far, IMO. MOO