4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[jepop]

Only in reference to a general notion that the State hasn't turned over Moscow PD notes to the Defense. I don't think this can necessarily be assumed from reading the items listed in the Defense's Motion to Compel. Below are the two items (out of six) that specifically reference Moscow PD:

3. Mr. Kohberger requests an Order for the State to disclose the following items included in the Defendant’s Ist“ Supplemental Requestfor Discovery:
Request No. 119 — All notes recordings from all Officers from Moscow
Police Department
As of May 4, 2023 Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received recordings
and notes from the interrogation of Mr. Kohberger by MPD Detective Payne.

This first one reads to me as excepting the DET Payne interrogation (which as discussed here already may have/is likely to have taken place in PA) the State has complied with Request 119. Why would it be worded like this, singling out the Payne material, if this wasn't so? IMO, the Payne material is one of several items that were contained in 119. That is the outstanding item, IMO. MOO

6. Mr. Kohberger requests an Order for the State to disclose the following items included in the Defendant’s 2nd " Supplemental Requestfor Discovery:
Request No. 160 — Training records of . . . (specific officers)
As of May 4, 2023, Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received the requested
materials.

Actually, this doesn't reference Moscow PD but if it does refer to specific officers' (seems likely they are MPD?) training records. What reasons for not handing over yet. Could fall under point 11 of the State's Response? Work product?

MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050423%20Motion%20to%20Compel%20Discovery.pdf

EBM: Correction in last para

 

[girlhasnoname]

What does number 34 say? 10 ____ inside glove box?

#34 A Man's world drawing is what I see and the other is #45 Washington State Univ paperwork.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Only in reference to a general notion that the State hasn't turned over Moscow PD notes to the Defense. I don't think this can necessarily be assumed from reading the items listed in the Defense's Motion to Compel. Below are the two items (out of six) that specifically reference Moscow PD:

3. Mr. Kohberger requests an Order for the State to disclose the following items included in the Defendant’s Ist“ Supplemental Requestfor Discovery:
Request No. 119 — All notes recordings from all Officers from Moscow
Police Department
As of May 4, 2023 Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received recordings
and notes from the interrogation of Mr. Kohberger by MPD Detective Payne.

This first one reads to me as excepting the DET Payne interrogation (which as discussed here already may have/is likely to have taken place in PA) the State has complied with Request 119. Why would it be worded like this, singling out the Payne material, if this wasn't so? IMO, the Payne material is one of several items that were contained in 119. That is the outstanding item, IMO. MOO

SBMFF.

Actually, that's a good point. If Payne's interrogation was in PA, that may explain that. In that case, though, I'd still want some explanation from the PA LE officials about why that hasn't been handed over to the state yet.

 

[Chloegirl]

IMO, I think he may have been coddled due to his possible (or at least what I perceive from reading lots of speculation) neurodiversity. This may be something that happened as a result of heroin use during crucial brain development years. I have read that the brain continues to develop judgement pathways until you're 25. If you're interrupting that cycle with heavy drug use, my guess is nobody is teaching him to drive or he is not getting proper driving experience.

I've heard it referred to as failure to launch syndrome. That's not something I know about, but if that's true lots of his skills were weakened by possible drug use, possibly holding him back, thinking he wasn't ready. This big move across country may have been his first opportunity to "lash out" (apologies) at what he perceives as injustice.

This was in response to questions about driving but OPs text was accidentally deleted.

 

[Gemmie]

This is anecdotal, y'all... regarding BK's driving "skills" and mine. JMO.

I grew up in a rural area not far from where BK grew up.

I could have been a not-so-skilled driver in my 20s before I earned my chops as a driver, practice makes perfect, IMO.

But even then, when I was still a relatively inexperienced young driver, I knew, and everyone I knew (e.g., my Driver's Ed Instructor, my parents and siblings and neighbors who taught me how to drive, my friends, and locals) that pulling into an intersection before traffic cleared (being so impatient to not want to have to wait for another green light if it was about to turn red to make my move), well, it was just "not done" and was risky, aggressive behavior that you would get ticketed for if you were caught by LE.

I even had it drilled into me hard that you should be a "defensive driver" and definitely "wait behind the line" to see what other drivers are going to do before you move into the intersection and risk getting stuck under a red light or causing an accident, rather than "jump the light".

Therefore, I agree with OP that BK doing that (as discussed here recently) was problematic, otherwise he wouldn't have been pulled over for it, regardless of how he may or may not have talked the LEO out of giving him a ticket because he said he was not familiar with crosswalks and such.

JMO

In plain and simple terms (IMO) Driving into an intersection before it's clear is just more of what I feel is his impatient behavior. Like his tailgating for instance. IMO he's an impatient person.

 

[Wallendo]

In plain and simple terms (IMO) Driving into an intersection before it's clear is just more of what I feel is his impatient behavior. Like his tailgating for instance. IMO he's an impatient person.

In many places, pulling into the intersection is routine behavior. Whether or not it is legal, it is commonly done. There are a lot of traffic laws that are rarely, if ever, enforced. I've lived in several places where not pulling into the intersection and then turning when opposing traffic stops with a yellow or red light would require sitting through several traffic light cycles.

 

[U.N. Known]

The fact that three capital qualified lawyers are now on board makes me lean toward "he's in deep advertiser censored stuff."

I leaned the opposite direction. Adding another attorney, especially a private one, makes me think the defense believes they have a real chance of proving him not guilty. A top defense attorney is putting her reputation on the line with a case she is (probably) under no obligation to take.

SNIPPED BY ME:

But even then, when I was still a relatively inexperienced young driver, I knew, and everyone I knew (e.g., my Driver's Ed Instructor, my parents and siblings and neighbors who taught me how to drive, my friends, and locals) that pulling into an intersection before traffic cleared (being so impatient to not want to have to wait for another green light if it was about to turn red to make my move), well, it was just "not done" and was risky, aggressive behavior that you would get ticketed for if you were caught by LE.

I even had it drilled into me hard that you should be a "defensive driver" and definitely "wait behind the line" to see what other drivers are going to do before you move into the intersection and risk getting stuck under a red light or causing an accident, rather than "jump the light".

Therefore, I agree with OP that BK doing that (as discussed here recently) was problematic, otherwise he wouldn't have been pulled over for it, regardless of how he may or may not have talked the LEO out of giving him a ticket because he said he was not familiar with crosswalks and such.

JMO

The officer said the violation she pulled him over for is common. If it's common, none of the above can be taken for granted with BK. Many, if not most, people learn to drive in their mid-teens. If BK got his permit and license as soon as he was legally able, even by his ripe old age of 27 (at the time), it had been around 11 years since he likely looked at the traffic laws in his own state, let alone the one he moved to a few months prior to the video we're discussing.

People seem to have the, "I have the green, so I get to go regardless of whether traffic is backed up," mentality in most places, even when they do know better. I see it nearly every time I drive during rush hour.

 

[10ofRods]

About the traffic stop in Pullman.

What are policemen taught to do during a traffic stop? - Be watchful, you don't know if it is a nice passenger or an armed robber.

BK does everything to make the policewoman feel at ease. His body is relaxed, especially the shoulders. He even either pats or stacks his documents reassuringly before giving them to her. I bet it should make the policeman feel relaxed (no gun).

Then, by asking her a question, he puts her in control. She starts explaining him the driving rules of WA and the crossroad becomes her classroom.

And then he baits by saying that he is from rural PA. Given that Pullman's major event of the year is Lentil festival. WSU being the biggest employer, the inhabitants of the town probably feel a certain rift between themselves and the students' body, and in a second, BK bridges this gap. It is obvious that he is from WSU, but he humbly listens to her lecture, makes her feel like a city-dweller lecturing an uncouth farmer, and avoids the ticket. All in 10 minutes.

This ability to relax the body is common for actors and athletes. BK is neither and everyone says, not social. Strange that he has it. I wish we saw the whole scene, and the policewoman, too.

LOVE this. Great analysis/interpretation. You're right that the police woman would make a great teacher. I love the part about his stacking his papers. It's also a way of taking charge of the time spent with the police. Many of us would want to hurry up the encounter or show rapid obedience to the officer.

The fact that you mention actors is interesting, because Kohberger's Prof. B (the one who spoke right after he was arrested and who was the advisor for his ill-fated Reddit poll) said he was into Script Theory. It's actually a fairly ambitious attempt to account for crime in a way that makes sense both to the criminologist and the criminal. It basically asserts that the criminal does put on an act, of a particular sort. It is apparently part of or closely related to Rational Choice Theory.

The goal of this theoretical approach (for criminologists) is to put crimes into a chronological narrative, with step-by-step analysis (in temporal order) of studying how the criminal began, conducted and perpetrated their crime, with each step assumed to be part of the criminal's "script" for crime (so that police and others can group crimes together and possibly discover one particular script, enacted by one particular criminal, that leads them to the person who did it, if they use it over and over again).

And even if the script is only used partially or once, the script can be analyzed with Rational Choice Theory.

The above is an attempt by me (for about the 10th time) to understand how this works inside criminology. This time, I realized that it is often called the "script theory of aggression" inside various behavioral sciences. One major review article helped me link it to other studies of aggression.

We already know that adrenalized responses leading to aggression start in the brain/mind but that certain parts of the body have receptors that ready them for aggression (specifically, the fists/hands - all primates have some of this response, but our line (the genus in particular) have modifications in nerves in the wrist and the hands that enable us to be both more dextrous and more able to use hands/fists in an adrenalized situation. SO, the article on Script Theory and aggression says that it is interested in the cognition that leads the thinker to the next step (using their hands and body for violence/aggression). In anger management classes, participants are often taught to consciously relax their hands and then the upper body.

So, Kohberger's relaxed and non-aggressive use of his hands both signals to the officer that he's "safe" but also helps keep him from an irritable response. The idea of Script Theory is that people (including criminals) practice these actions.

The theory therefore proposes that violent criminals use specific thought patterns to get themselves in the opposite state (the state of aggression). They allow themselves to think these thoughts as practice for the aggression, and those thoughts are the "script."

I am sorry of this long post doesn't make a lot of sense, but your analysis sure did.

IMO of course.


https://www.google.com/books/editio...ry+of+aggression&pg=PA157&printsec=frontcover

 

[Gemmie]

In many places, pulling into the intersection is routine behavior. Whether or not it is legal, it is commonly done. There are a lot of traffic laws that are rarely, if ever, enforced. I've lived in several places where not pulling into the intersection and then turning when opposing traffic stops with a yellow or red light would require sitting through several traffic light cycles.

Great point!! I still think BK is an impatient person. JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Comparing the lettering to lettering in the rest of the document
I think it says: "A Man's hand" drawing.

ie: the a's look like a u
many d's are not connected
IMO letters that are clear in the writing are the n's, l's, and w's (look at the w in drawing). I don't see an l in this entry.

<snipped> Items 34 and 45 are interesting to me:

View attachment 421437
Full list of items seized from suspect Bryan Kohberger's home revealed

In plain and simple terms (IMO) Driving into an intersection before it's clear is just more of what I feel is his impatient behavior. Like his tailgating for instance. IMO he's an impatient person.

Looking at the recently posted Bing footage, thank you @Twistinginthewind : IMO he was a mile behind that truck, according to east coast standards.

What struck me about the video was there was a police car to his left and drove past it on the right (2:58). Left lane is for faster moving cars and never drive faster than a police car on a highway IMO.

video of bryan kohberger indiance bodycam - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[PrairieWind]

I leaned the opposite direction. Adding another attorney, especially a private one, makes me think the defense believes they have a real chance of proving him not guilty. A top defense attorney is putting her reputation on the line with a case she is (probably) under no obligation to take.

The officer said the violation she pulled him over for is common. If it's common, none of the above can be taken for granted with BK. Many, if not most, people learn to drive in their mid-teens. If BK got his permit and license as soon as he was legally able, even by his ripe old age of 27 (at the time), it had been around 11 years since he likely looked at the traffic laws in his own state, let alone the one he moved to a few months prior to the video we're discussing.

People seem to have the, "I have the green, so I get to go regardless of whether traffic is backed up," mentality in most places, even when they do know better. I see it nearly every time I drive during rush hour.

If you have an intersection that does not have turn arrows, this is pretty much the norm. I do it.

 

[10ofRods]

If you have an intersection that does not have turn arrows, this is pretty much the norm. I do it.

It's legal in many places - but not in Washington. It's legal in California. We would never get home at the end of the day if it weren't.

From the California Highway Patrol:

"Once the intersection clears from oncoming traffic and pedestrians, at which time even though the light is red, as long as you're in the intersection, you may execute that left turn."

So, the minute a light turns green, if we're making a left turn, we can go into the intersection and wait, with at least 1-2 cars getting through on a red light. Red lights are timed so that there are a couple of seconds for this to occur before the green turns on in the other direction (and then of course, those drivers take a couple of seconds to get into the intersection). It works.

I do remember my dad drilling it into me that this was not legal in Colorado. Just checked - and it isn't legal in CO to pull into the intersection to await a red light before turning left. Same as Washington.

Amazing the things we end up learning here on WS.

IMO.

 

[Sundog]

In many places, pulling into the intersection is routine behavior. Whether or not it is legal, it is commonly done. There are a lot of traffic laws that are rarely, if ever, enforced. I've lived in several places where not pulling into the intersection and then turning when opposing traffic stops with a yellow or red light would require sitting through several traffic light cycles.

Same where I live. It is what is expected, I do it all the time on a green turn light. It's legal here, and expected. But there is no crosswalk to worry about. That might be a factor that makes a difference.

 

[jepop]

Comparing the lettering to lettering in the rest of the document
I think it says: "A Man's hand" drawing.

ie: the a's look like a u
many d's are not connected
IMO letters that are clear in the writing are the n's, l's, and w's (look at the w in drawing). I don't see an l in this entry.

[RSBM for fous]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with ' a man's hand drawing'. I zoomed in and looked at how the word 'hats' is written a few lines further down (in reference to "dark color hats" found). The writer's 'hs' are almost indecipherable in isolation but in context of a sentence that makes sense they can be read. IMO, what looks like a 'w' is very likely this writer's 'h' and there is no' l', you're right. MOO

So atm I'm thinking of an outlined drawing of a hand. Maybe it is labelled as a "man's" because how else would the writer know this? That could be why the item is in inverted commas, because it is labelled, IMO. Also possible it is a hand drawn drawing done by a man, and labelled as such. MOO

edited to correct info in para 1

 

[Justice101]

Unfortunately, most warrant listings at the search site are written in hand.

Hand writing has continued to deteriorate over the past 40 years. There is so little that needs to be hand written now compared to the old days but handwriting (as opposed to typing it in and printing it later) is supposedly easier to prove who the officer was in the chain of custody as to who kept the inventory of the search items

 

[steeltowngirl]

Comparing the lettering to lettering in the rest of the document
I think it says: "A Man's hand" drawing.

ie: the a's look like a u
many d's are not connected
IMO letters that are clear in the writing are the n's, l's, and w's (look at the w in drawing). I don't see an l in this entry

Interesting. Maybe it simply meant a drawing done by hand. They took it into evidence. Wouldn’t it be something if it was a hand-drawn layout of the student’s house, a sketch of one of the students, or an old-fashioned map of the neighborhood.

 

[jepop]

Interesting. Maybe it simply meant a drawing done by hand. They took it into evidence. Wouldn’t it be something if it was a hand-drawn layout of the student’s house, a sketch of one of the students, or an old-fashioned map of the neighborhood.

I see your point, but if that were to be the case, in the doc why would the hand done drawing be listed as "a man's" unless it is labelled as such? I thought of another possibility - that it is a drawing of what is a clearly distinguishable male hand, in which case the the words "a man's" refer to the content of the drawing rather than the artist. MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I see your point, but if that were to be the case, in the doc why would the hand done drawing be listed as "a man's" unless it is labelled as such? I thought of another possibility - that it is a drawing of what is a clearly distinguishable male hand, in which case the the words "a man's" refer to the content of the drawing rather than the artist. MOO

Oh maybe! Now I’m picturing a hand traced picture like the kids used to bring home from kindergarten.

 

[Nila Aella]

Interesting. Maybe it simply meant a drawing done by hand. They took it into evidence. Wouldn’t it be something if it was a hand-drawn layout of the student’s house, a sketch of one of the students, or an old-fashioned map of the neighborhood.

I was thinking that the quotation marks signified a title. The only other quotations I see are # 31 "Criminal Psychology Book"

Full list of items seized from suspect Bryan Kohberger's home revealed

 

[jepop]

Oh maybe! Now I’m picturing a hand traced picture like the kids used to bring home from kindergarten.

View attachment 421496

Good one! And with some sort of label 'a man's hand'!