4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[Spec-u-lator]

I am not-so-patiently waiting to learn the results of the items seized during searches. However, if not for the DNA on the sheath, I'd lean toward not guilty. The DNA on the sheath has me thinking involved or framed for whatever reason (only based on what we have been told). I can't work out coincidence on that one.

If all there is is what we currently know (including no murder weapon), I'd have a hard time convicting if the defense has a reasonable explanation of how that sheath got there with his DNA on it. However, if there is any evidence of the victims on any of BK's property, I'd have a very hard time believing he wasn't responsible.

There are still so many oddities about that night that I'd like explained regardless.

In my opinion, BK was POI #1 because he was the owner of a white Elantra with no front plate, lived nearby, and could not be excluded from DM's description. LE Moscow stated they had applied for, I think 55 warrants. IMO, that must have included AT&T in order to get cell phone ping data.
When BK left WA, LE likely, IMO, did not yet have enough evidence for probable cause for search and arrest; they were still methodically building the evidence. But what they wanted MOST, was access to the car, because it is thought that the killer got in the car immediately, and sped away. The car would be the best chance of finding victim DNA, or other evidence linked to the victims. This may be why he was allegedly followed to PA. I imagine the car itself was under surveillance, too, while LE was making sure their evidence was comprehensive enough for judges in WA and PA to approve warrants and arrest. LE dismantled the car looking for evidence from the victim's, their home, possessions, Murphy hair, anything that could link that car to the crime beyond it's proximity during the time the crime was thought to have occurred. So, we wait.

 

[jepop]

I believe what OP meant was he had already been seen doing this while under surveillance in PA. Not that it was something he already was known to do before the murders took place. Link is below where he was seen doing this. I'm usually terrible at finding links for stuff later on, so imaginary fist bump for me. LOL

Idaho murders: Suspect threw out trash in neighbors' bins, source says

Investigators observed the Idaho quadruple murder suspect throwing out garbage into neighboring trash bins in the middle of the night as they surveilled him.

abc7ny.com

Does anyone recall reading or hearing that he did this while in Pullman? I don't, but that doesn't mean much. LOL I have a vague memory that they weren't able to obtain his trash in Pullman, but I can't swear to it. MOOooo

I think that we don't know if he did this or not in Pullman. I tend to assume that LE in Pullman (after BK was IDed at end of Nov) would have attempted to get a dna sample via trash and failed, so perhaps that means he was being careful about trash disposal. MOO. But there really are a lot of unknowns because obviously he was under investigation and LE is quite rightly, IMO, not revealing any details of the investigation at this point apart from what is in the PCA. We only know about the dna test done on 28th DEc via paternal dna taken from PA trash on Dec 27 because of the PCA which was made public in early Jan. After that a few MSM articles popped out of the woodwork too IMO. Also, I don't think we are sure of how much BK was under surveilance in Pullman prior to cDEcember 13th (?) when he left for PA with his dad. MOO. But in those two weeks between Nov 29th and DEcember 13th, I assume LE/FBI were unable to obtain a dna sample via any trash containers on public land/curbs and so forth. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Safe from what though?
I doubt anybody will be in a hurry to attempt to replicate it for any reason known to mankind.
Does he feel it's so precious?

This will only go one place and I'm really reluctant to name it.
He did continue his studies after the massacre and whereas people may have noticed a difference in him, it was not at this level or even close. We saw him on the drive home when vehicle was stopped by LE. He was able to pull off a perfectly sane and innocent way of being , albeit with dancing spinning eyes.

He didn't yet know they had his dad's DNA match from Gedmatch nor did he know that they already had his DNA - from trash, just as he suspected might happen.

So he was continuing his trash hiding behavior. He does not know the warrant has been issued, hasn't seen the PCA, doesn't know when LE is coming for him - or even IF they are coming for him.

So he's being careful.

IMO.

 

[jepop]

In my opinion, BK was POI #1 because he was the owner of a white Elantra with no front plate, lived nearby, and could not be excluded from DM's description. LE Moscow stated they had applied for, I think 55 warrants. IMO, that must have included AT&T in order to get cell phone ping data.
When BK left WA, LE likely, IMO, did not yet have enough evidence for probable cause for search and arrest; they were still methodically building the evidence. But what they wanted MOST, was access to the car, because it is thought that the killer got in the car immediately, and sped away. The car would be the best chance of finding victim DNA, or other evidence linked to the victims. This may be why he was allegedly followed to PA. I imagine the car itself was under surveillance, too, while LE was making sure their evidence was comprehensive enough for judges in WA and PA to approve warrants and arrest. LE dismantled the car looking for evidence from the victim's, their home, possessions, Murphy hair, anything that could link that car to the crime beyond it's proximity during the time the crime was thought to have occurred. So, we wait.

BBM: Not sure about the 55 warrants (?) but yes, LE applied for phone records warrant and received them on 23rd December as per PCA, after BK was already in PA.

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - 122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf -

pdfhost.io

I speculate that in December LE were working themselves ragged eliminating as many relevant White elantras (and drivers/owners) as possible from their investigation, making sure of the accuracy of the video surveilance analysis of the elantra on the night/morning of the murders and in short doing due diligence on all possible/probable suspects and lines of enquiry. I believe that all this had to be done to some level that allowed for the granting of the phone warrants which then backed up the video analysis of the white elantra. MOO.

I remember the many press conferences (see WS media thread here for the amazing transcriptions) where the Chief of Police asks the public time and time again to please be patient, we are looking at all possible angles, we want a conviction, not just an arrest (paraphrase).MOO.

Link to media thread

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION Discussion Thread 1: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-4-university-of-idaho-students-died-in-apparent-homicide-moscow-13-nov-2022.644006/ —— Rsbm Police said...

www.websleuths.com

I have a lot of confidence that LE, with the help of the FBI, have done their due diligence in this case. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

But LE had a million ways to get his DNA and he would have had to have known that.
They originally got it via his parents' rubbish.
He knew the possibilities, how could he not have?

Did he take the same pains in his apartment and in his office, his vehicle, his everything?
why did he not hide himself if the object of the exercise, in futility imo, was to occlude his own dNA from everything while still living in a shared home with his parents?

No, they initially got it from the NEIGHBOR'S rubbish. They'd been watching him go over and put stuff in the neighbor's trash.

FBI watched Idaho 'killer' take out the trash wearing surgical gloves

The officers were tasked with tracking Kohberger so they could arrest him as soon as a warrant was issued as well as trying to get hold of a DNA sample.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If in fact he was putting his bio-material in baggies first (or even just a garbage bag), he made it easier for them to find it. He took the time to remove his trash from his parents' property and relocate it elsewhere, but apparently did not look around to see if there was possible surveillance. Perhaps they were using a night drone. Perhaps there was a good place for a car to park, unseen (but how then does it have a line of sight to the Kohberger's house?)

I figure they probably just watched him leave the house in the wee hours of the morning, carrying something, and coming back without it. Common sense would tell investigators that he could be trying to hide something - my mind goes immediately to trash, since that's what LE looks for when they want DNA.

All those pairs of gloves have DNA in them and for them to be effective in preventing more transfer, they need to be changed often - all of the gloves being a rich source of epithelial DNA on their insides. So he has to throw them away and he doesn't want to put them in his own trash. IIRC, it was more than a few yards to the neighbors' house, so he would have been seen walking up that street to the other house(s). He may have used more than one neighbors' trash, we don't know that.

I assume he cleaned and recleaned both his car and apartment, although the car poses some problems (did he drive it to a self-serve car wash in some place that's not Pullman and not Moscow? Because he had to have been worried about being caught on camera cleaning his car. Maybe he took the car out east of Moscow to clean it on the plains. No one knows, but I assume he did his level best to clean it. DNA is hard to destroy, though.

IMO.

 

[GRT]

How does him doing it already convince you it was to hide DNA though? If anything, that would convince me it's a personal quirk if he was doing it before.



But we already know from earlier reports published in MSM that according to his neighbors in Pullman, he's a night owl and does his cleaning at night.



#5 opens many possibilities, not just that there is something he's hiding from LE. One of those possibilities is an eating disorder. I'm not saying he has one, but I don't think it's accurate to say the only reason to hide food wrappers and leftovers is to hide something from LE.



The fact that he's fully dressed at 1:30 am is the least suspicious part of this, IMO, given that we know he's a night owl.



Anyone digging through trash should be wearing gloves.

The above is MOO.

You bring up good points.

I feel as though any good defense attorney will be thinking along the same lines.

 

[iamshadow21]

No, they initially got it from the NEIGHBOR'S rubbish. They'd been watching him go over and put stuff in the neighbor's trash.

FBI watched Idaho 'killer' take out the trash wearing surgical gloves

The officers were tasked with tracking Kohberger so they could arrest him as soon as a warrant was issued as well as trying to get hold of a DNA sample.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If in fact he was putting his bio-material in baggies first (or even just a garbage bag), he made it easier for them to find it. He took the time to remove his trash from his parents' property and relocate it elsewhere, but apparently did not look around to see if there was possible surveillance. Perhaps they were using a night drone. Perhaps there was a good place for a car to park, unseen (but how then does it have a line of sight to the Kohberger's house?)

I figure they probably just watched him leave the house in the wee hours of the morning, carrying something, and coming back without it. Common sense would tell investigators that he could be trying to hide something - my mind goes immediately to trash, since that's what LE looks for when they want DNA.

All those pairs of gloves have DNA in them and for them to be effective in preventing more transfer, they need to be changed often - all of the gloves being a rich source of epithelial DNA on their insides. So he has to throw them away and he doesn't want to put them in his own trash. IIRC, it was more than a few yards to the neighbors' house, so he would have been seen walking up that street to the other house(s). He may have used more than one neighbors' trash, we don't know that.

I assume he cleaned and recleaned both his car and apartment, although the car poses some problems (did he drive it to a self-serve car wash in some place that's not Pullman and not Moscow? Because he had to have been worried about being caught on camera cleaning his car. Maybe he took the car out east of Moscow to clean it on the plains. No one knows, but I assume he did his level best to clean it. DNA is hard to destroy, though.

IMO.

Also, ziplock baggies are a gorgeous surface for fingerprints. You can't tell me he remembered to glove up every time he grabbed one. He left a sheath with his freaking DNA on it beside a victim. Amateur hour. He would have been better off opening a bag of his neighbour's garbage and mixing his trash directly in it. The grosser and messier, the better. Instead, there's the chance he hermetically sealed everything in individual little baggies. He might as well have written his name on them. <modsnip>

MOO

 

[formerlyme]

A normal person acting like this is probably just obsessive compulsive, or maybe a bit eccentric. But a quadruple murder suspect who left behind a sheath with possible DNA on it is going to go to great lengths to take control of the situation and hide his DNA.

Bryan is not a normal person. Normal people don't have LE following them across the Country, doing surveillance on them for days at their home, picking through their trash and running their DNA.

Normal people don't have a motive to hide their DNA but Bryan did, and "he was right."

LE WAS stalking him and trying to get his DNA.

Just my take on it.

LE going through his trash specifically looking for his DNA convinces me he was trying to hide his DNA.

He had a MOTIVE to hide it, a normal person (not arrested for quadruple homicide) would lack this motive.

yes I have known a person with OCD who did just this...

 

[jepop]

No, they initially got it from the NEIGHBOR'S rubbish. They'd been watching him go over and put stuff in the neighbor's trash.

FBI watched Idaho 'killer' take out the trash wearing surgical gloves

The officers were tasked with tracking Kohberger so they could arrest him as soon as a warrant was issued as well as trying to get hold of a DNA sample.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If in fact he was putting his bio-material in baggies first (or even just a garbage bag), he made it easier for them to find it. He took the time to remove his trash from his parents' property and relocate it elsewhere, but apparently did not look around to see if there was possible surveillance. Perhaps they were using a night drone. Perhaps there was a good place for a car to park, unseen (but how then does it have a line of sight to the Kohberger's house?)

I figure they probably just watched him leave the house in the wee hours of the morning, carrying something, and coming back without it. Common sense would tell investigators that he could be trying to hide something - my mind goes immediately to trash, since that's what LE looks for when they want DNA.

All those pairs of gloves have DNA in them and for them to be effective in preventing more transfer, they need to be changed often - all of the gloves being a rich source of epithelial DNA on their insides. So he has to throw them away and he doesn't want to put them in his own trash. IIRC, it was more than a few yards to the neighbors' house, so he would have been seen walking up that street to the other house(s). He may have used more than one neighbors' trash, we don't know that.

I assume he cleaned and recleaned both his car and apartment, although the car poses some problems (did he drive it to a self-serve car wash in some place that's not Pullman and not Moscow? Because he had to have been worried about being caught on camera cleaning his car. Maybe he took the car out east of Moscow to clean it on the plains. No one knows, but I assume he did his level best to clean it. DNA is hard to destroy, though.

IMO.

BBM: Good point, he could have had one of those small rechargeable vacuums that run off a battery. Some are designed specifically for cars I believe. MOO. Perhaps that what he was doing on Nov 13th between 5.30pm and 8.30pm when his phone is switched off (not connecting with network) in the vicinity of Johnston ID as per PCA. Also he was in Albertsville/Clarkson (?) at around 1/1.30pm afternoon of Nov 13th at a store, also per PCA. Perhaps he bought cleaning stuff there if he didn't have what he thought he needed already (PCA not linked again as it is linked in my previous post right above this one). The PCA also notes that between 4.48am and c5.30am he took a route that included going west towards Johnston ID on his way home from Moscow. Perhaps he saw a spot in that area that he considered a useful place to clean his car. Just speculating.

EBM: Added BBM.

 

[10ofRods]

I think that we don't know if he did this or not in Pullman. I tend to assume that LE in Pullman (after BK was IDed at end of Nov) would have attempted to get a dna sample via trash and failed, so perhaps that means he was being careful about trash disposal. MOO. But there really are a lot of unknowns because obviously he was under investigation and LE is quite rightly, IMO, not revealing any details of the investigation at this point apart from what is in the PCA. We only know about the dna test done on 28th DEc via paternal dna taken from PA trash on Dec 27 because of the PCA which was made public in early Jan. After that a few MSM articles popped out of the woodwork too IMO. Also, I don't think we are sure of how much BK was under surveilance in Pullman prior to cDEcember 13th (?) when he left for PA with his dad. MOO. But in those two weeks between Nov 29th and DEcember 13th, I assume LE/FBI were unable to obtain a dna sample via any trash containers on public land/curbs and so forth. MOO

The trash from the Steptoe apartments goes into those big industrial trash bins (I think I can see them at the complex on google maps, there do not appear to be smaller trash bins near the parking lots - IOW, normal student housing configuration of trash). It would be much harder to retrieve Kohberger's personal trash in such a system (if he even dumped his trash there).

I agree that LE in WA and ID had not been able to get his DNA via trash or touch before he and his dad left for PA. I can't remember the date when they got the Gedmatch results on dad. At any rate, LE knew where to find him, in PA and knew that the trash retrieval process would be aided by the fact that Kohberger had to deposit trash in just one bin - so Kohberger thinks he'll improve his chances by not using the obvious trash container outside his parents' home.

These were desperate measures by a desperate man, IMO. He knew what was coming, was just playing a good game of cat and mouse. My personal opinion is that, finding himself the center of a major crime investigation, Kohberger could manage his anxiety by employing his personal knowledge of crime, even though it was too late and he'd blown it with the sheath.

Those of you who think KG was originally in her own bed may be quite right. If she comes into MM's room as the attack begins, he forgets about the sheath. I have tended toward the view that he intended to kill more than one person all along, but that's a mere hunch. At any rate, it's not surprising that a man who was used to purely theoretical concepts of crime, mainly online learning, reading and taking notes, thinking analytically, etc. would find his memory working very differently while in the highly adrenalized and kinetic situation of committing murder.

All IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I think we are unlikely to see any mention from anyone regarding the suspect having any preoccupation with trash prior to the murders. That's not to say however, that he didn't. Perhaps he did, and no-one else knew. He may have thought that people would think him somewhat strange if they knew he had a trash-sorting habit. As one of our esteemed sleuthers explained really well (threads ago - I'm still looking for the post) - she engages in just such behaviour, for very good reasons. It is also entirely possible that, if he is the perpetrator, he took up this habit after the murders, for self-protection purposes. Regarding the glove habit, there have been numerous posts regarding him shopping prior to the murders, wearing gloves. Shall hunt for these posts also, and re-post.

I'd like to see those pre-murder posts about his behavior, as I have not seen them. They surely were not collected by any journalist or SM site before the murders nor for some time afterwards, because no one knows it's Bryan Kohberger (except LE) until Dec 31, 2022.

People have a tendency to revise memories and how it could be the case that someone, who had never met Bryan, didn't know his face or name, somehow remembers seeing him at a grocery store, with gloves, is amazing. Lots of people wear gloves in grocery stores and in any case, it isn't so abnormal that I'd memorize the face of such a person. And I"m good with faces.

There was ONE report that I know of, of him wearing gloves to a grocery store in PA. Respectfully, I would definitely like to see the source you're referencing, as I've not heard of it before.

TIA.

JMO.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I do agree with the very valid opinion that there was no reason for Bryan to hide his DNA if he thought he may have left some on his sheath - because he would know LE could simply use his parent's DNA for comparison.

However, Bryan did not know for sure that LE had his DNA.

BBM -- I don't think he knew LE had taken trash from the neighbors after seeing him put it there? MOO I don't think he knew LE was on to him -- wouldn't he have taken off or gone into hiding or such? I think he thought he had gotten away with it, until they came in and got him. Again, MOO but I've seen nothing that contradicts this idea.

 

[10ofRods]

That's just it, we don't know that he was attempting to hide his garbage. People have assumed and gone with that idea, but IMO that doesn't make sense. As someone else posted, unless the parents' DNA was also hidden, it would be pointless for him to hide his. And theirs wasn't hidden.

I think the same reasoning is out there with BK putting trash in the neighbor's bin. While I've never put my trash in a neighbor's bin, it seems that for some people this is a "done" thing and is not a big deal. Even if it wasn't a regular occurrence, using the neighbor's bin wouldn't accomplish that goal of hiding the personal trash/DNA.

If BK thought the police were watching him discard trash, he'd know they would see him walking to the neighbor's bin. By the same token, since trash doesn't need a warrant, if they saw him put things in the neighbor's bin, he'd know they could just go there and get it.

So you think that they could have gotten the search warrant for a no-knock, night time search of the parents' property based just on the family match? Do we have any source that says a PA judge would be inclined to do that? Seems to me that they really needed to show that BK was the only possible match for the sheath. Saying his dad was his dad and not having his personal DNA seems, to me, a real weakness in that kind of search warrant.

I also figure they'd been trying to get his personal DNA since Pullman. Clearly BK thinks that his night time activities are not being seen by investigators, or he wouldn't have done it, IMO.

He's wearing gloves inside his car during the Indiana traffic stops, which is smart (so that he's not leaving appreciable DNA on the car door handle - or steering wheel). He's making it hard for LE to get his DNA, IOW.

But he made it easy for them when he dropped his DNA into a neighbors' trash can one evening in December. Now, even if he was segregating trash for several years and bagging it, he made it way easier for LE to get his DNA by so doing, as they could watch him do it - and the trash was nicely segregated from others' DNA.

I don't think BK saw LE staking out his house in PA, frankly. I think LE did their job very well. It is an area where the houses are sort of far apart, that was an advantage. Perhaps they parked in a neighbors' driveway (with permission, or at a vacation home). We don't know - and I am patiently waiting to find out.

If BK was wearing gloves for years before the murders - or even a year or six months - then I am of the opinion that he was concerned about fingerprints and DNA, and it gives me the spooky impression that he was one of those killers who has practiced hot prowling, perhaps even B & E.

Just my opinion.

 

[maskedwoman]

Thank you for doing all that research for us.

Surely there is no theory of curtilage where BK has an expectation of privacy at his neighbor's curb!

This raises a very interesting question for me. If the police step onto BK's neighbor's property and search their trash bins for what they observed BK put in there, is what they find admissible without a warrant? I guess the legal question is: would it be invading the neighbor's privacy if they already knew what they were looking for didn't belong to the neighbors? Certainly, they could (and possibly did) just get the neighbor's permission and ask them not to tell, but could they be sure the neighbor's aren't besties with the Kohberger's and might tip them off? Or maybe they just parked some poor, unfortunate probie agent on the street with orders to grab it the minute the bin hit the curb. I believe all we know at this point is that they retrieved whatever he put in their trash, but not exactly how they went about that.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

No, they initially got it from the NEIGHBOR'S rubbish. They'd been watching him go over and put stuff in the neighbor's trash.

FBI watched Idaho 'killer' take out the trash wearing surgical gloves

The officers were tasked with tracking Kohberger so they could arrest him as soon as a warrant was issued as well as trying to get hold of a DNA sample.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If in fact he was putting his bio-material in baggies first (or even just a garbage bag), he made it easier for them to find it. He took the time to remove his trash from his parents' property and relocate it elsewhere, but apparently did not look around to see if there was possible surveillance. Perhaps they were using a night drone. Perhaps there was a good place for a car to park, unseen (but how then does it have a line of sight to the Kohberger's house?)

I figure they probably just watched him leave the house in the wee hours of the morning, carrying something, and coming back without it. Common sense would tell investigators that he could be trying to hide something - my mind goes immediately to trash, since that's what LE looks for when they want DNA.

All those pairs of gloves have DNA in them and for them to be effective in preventing more transfer, they need to be changed often - all of the gloves being a rich source of epithelial DNA on their insides. So he has to throw them away and he doesn't want to put them in his own trash. IIRC, it was more than a few yards to the neighbors' house, so he would have been seen walking up that street to the other house(s). He may have used more than one neighbors' trash, we don't know that.

I assume he cleaned and recleaned both his car and apartment, although the car poses some problems (did he drive it to a self-serve car wash in some place that's not Pullman and not Moscow? Because he had to have been worried about being caught on camera cleaning his car. Maybe he took the car out east of Moscow to clean it on the plains. No one knows, but I assume he did his level best to clean it. DNA is hard to destroy, though.

IMO.

RBBM.
This made me think, apparently he has vision problems, maybe this was worse at night?

 

[iamshadow21]

So you think that they could have gotten the search warrant for a no-knock, night time search of the parents' property based just on the family match? Do we have any source that says a PA judge would be inclined to do that? Seems to me that they really needed to show that BK was the only possible match for the sheath. Saying his dad was his dad and not having his personal DNA seems, to me, a real weakness in that kind of search warrant.

I also figure they'd been trying to get his personal DNA since Pullman. Clearly BK thinks that his night time activities are not being seen by investigators, or he wouldn't have done it, IMO.

He's wearing gloves inside his car during the Indiana traffic stops, which is smart (so that he's not leaving appreciable DNA on the car door handle - or steering wheel). He's making it hard for LE to get his DNA, IOW.

But he made it easy for them when he dropped his DNA into a neighbors' trash can one evening in December. Now, even if he was segregating trash for several years and bagging it, he made it way easier for LE to get his DNA by so doing, as they could watch him do it - and the trash was nicely segregated from others' DNA.

I don't think BK saw LE staking out his house in PA, frankly. I think LE did their job very well. It is an area where the houses are sort of far apart, that was an advantage. Perhaps they parked in a neighbors' driveway (with permission, or at a vacation home). We don't know - and I am patiently waiting to find out.

If BK was wearing gloves for years before the murders - or even a year or six months - then I am of the opinion that he was concerned about fingerprints and DNA, and it gives me the spooky impression that he was one of those killers who has practiced hot prowling, perhaps even B & E.

Just my opinion.

Was he wearing gloves in the traffic stops? I thought his hands were bare because there were whole threads of people debating whether he had healing injuries to his hands.

 

[Deleted member 718]

So you think that they could have gotten the search warrant for a no-knock, night time search of the parents' property based just on the family match? Do we have any source that says a PA judge would be inclined to do that? Seems to me that they really needed to show that BK was the only possible match for the sheath. Saying his dad was his dad and not having his personal DNA seems, to me, a real weakness in that kind of search warrant.

I also figure they'd been trying to get his personal DNA since Pullman. Clearly BK thinks that his night time activities are not being seen by investigators, or he wouldn't have done it, IMO.

He's wearing gloves inside his car during the Indiana traffic stops, which is smart (so that he's not leaving appreciable DNA on the car door handle - or steering wheel). He's making it hard for LE to get his DNA, IOW.

But he made it easy for them when he dropped his DNA into a neighbors' trash can one evening in December. Now, even if he was segregating trash for several years and bagging it, he made it way easier for LE to get his DNA by so doing, as they could watch him do it - and the trash was nicely segregated from others' DNA.

I don't think BK saw LE staking out his house in PA, frankly. I think LE did their job very well. It is an area where the houses are sort of far apart, that was an advantage. Perhaps they parked in a neighbors' driveway (with permission, or at a vacation home). We don't know - and I am patiently waiting to find out.

If BK was wearing gloves for years before the murders - or even a year or six months - then I am of the opinion that he was concerned about fingerprints and DNA, and it gives me the spooky impression that he was one of those killers who has practiced hot prowling, perhaps even B & E.

Just my opinion.

This traffic stop?

https://imagez.tmz.com/image/ce/o/2023/01/03/ce850610e815498dac6e5729c1b6015d_md.jpg

 

[10ofRods]

RBBM.
This made me think, apparently he has vision problems, maybe this was worse at night?

If he has VSS (which I believe he does), then yes, his night vision is weaker than most humans. Of course, he's out driving around at night anyway, so it can't be that bad. It can be compared to having floaters (those little squiggly things many of us have in our vision) but it's distributed like snow over the visual field. Some compare it to static on an old TV. It obscures vision more than floaters do, apparently. There seems to be no cure and very little evidence of spontaneous remission, either.

This is based on the TapATalk posts (see media thread) and on looking into the medical literature on VSS.

At any rate, his vision ought to have been worse at night, if he has VSS, is what I'm saying. Of course, it may not be severe enough to impair night driving, especially if roads are well marked. OTOH, it could help explain why he stops soon after he leaves Moscow on the night of the crime, gets his bearings, etc.

VSS was first explored in the medical literature in the late 1800's/early 1900's. Dr. Bleuler (Freud's mentor) mentions it. I had never heard of it until this case.

Brief article (recent): Visual snow syndrome

IME, IMO.

 

[iamshadow21]

This traffic stop?

View attachment 408082

https://imagez.tmz.com/image/ce/o/2023/01/03/ce850610e815498dac6e5729c1b6015d_md.jpg

Yeah, I don't see gloves there, do you?

MOO

 

[Deleted member 718]

Two new documents under the gag order

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/Supreme/50482-2023/030823%20Order%20Granting%20Motion%20for%20Leave%20to%20File%20Consolidated%20Reply%20Brief.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/Supreme/50482-2023/030723%20Motion%20for%20Leave%20to%20File%20Consolidated%20Reply.pdf

It's to considate several gag order documents into one document by March 10, 2023