4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[Sjöberg]

I would suggest the circling could be because he either didn't feel the circumstances were ideal, perhaps too many lights on in the house, which wouldn't be ideal for prowling, more cars than he expected parked outside or perhaps just deciding which residence was a better fit for him that evening.

Maybe there was someone else on the street (like in relation to that police attending to these drunk kids nearby) or a neighbour had their light on, something like that?
If he actually had specifically thoroughly planned it (that I personally doubt more and more), he might have also done stuff like retrieved his "kill kit", listened to the police radio or similar.

 

[10ofRods]

Do they have to do this with every piece of evidence that is removed and sent off to be forensically evaluated?


STIPULATION TO TEMPORARILY SEAL THE STIPULATION TO REMOVE EVIDENTIARY ITEMS FOR FORENSIC EVALUATION AND ORDER ALLOWING REMOVAL OF EVIDENTIARY ITEMS FOR FORENSIC EVALUATION PENDING. HEARING

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/060923%20Stipulation%20To%20Temp%20Seal%20Stip%20to%20Remove%20Evid%20Items%20for%20Forensic%20Eval%20and%20Order%20Allowing%20Removal.pdf

TEMPORARY ORDER SEALING THE STIPULATION TO REMOVE EVIDENTIARY ITEMS FOR FORENSIC EVALUATION AND ORDER ALLOWING REMOVAL OF ITEMS FOR FORENSIC EVALUATION PENDING HEARING

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/060923%20Temporary%20Order%20Sealing%20the%20Stip%20to%20Remove%20Evid%20Items%20for%20Forensic%20Eval%20and%20Order%20Allowing%20Removal.pdf

I would certainly think so. I've mentioned that the sheath needs to be retested by a defense expert, and it may even be consumptive testing (taking a sample that's more than a swab). The defense will want to show that within the leather of the sheath, there's stranger DNA (which there probably is). It will trace to the place in Mexico where the sheath was manufactured (IIRC, Ka-Bar sheaths has more than one facility in Mexico, where leather production is still a big industry).

This new DNA has nothing to do with anything except the manufacturing process, but as we saw in the Morphew case, apparently even judges get confused, sometimes.

They will also want to re-test the area around the snap/fastener and other parts of the sheath as well. This will need to be done with both sides participating in some way, I'd think. And then, of course, there are those chain of custody issues. If the DNA of LE show up on the sheath (someone violated protocols in handling of evidence), Defense will make a huge deal of that.

IMO.

 

[schooling]

One possible explanation would be that he had scoped out the neighborhood and had more than one possible target in mind.

Also just ruminating. I can picture a scenario in which a person who was used to hot prowling or peeping or creeping in a neighborhood, as a kind of night time stress release/fantasy crime activity. The fantasies would have morphed and shifted until one became more compelling and above all the others - perhaps on that very night. He might have regarded 1122 King Rd as the "ultimate" target within that neighborhood, but still have been considering other, less "ambitious" targets, if this was his first violent attack on people.

IMO

IMO he probably grew more and more brazen with each excursion.

I want to know if LE found any other nights where he may have turned his phone off. Pointing to dry runs and/or days he cancelled his plans.

That last bit is a slippery slope though as defense attorneys may be able to use that to discount the 'intent' behind turning ones phone off. And trying to pass that off as a regular activity of his. I mean...occasionally I'll turn mine off or go into airplane mode. HELL.....I own a Punkt MP02 just so I can disconnect from internet life.

 

[kittythehare]

The Gross Spectacle of Murder Fandom

After four University of Idaho students were killed, TikTok and Reddit sleuths swarmed the campus. The community is still struggling with the wreckage they left behind.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

In arguing for the media, Wendy Olson, whose credentials I’ve recently posted, made a simple point about an issue the judge himself raised (“standing silent”): she argued that permitting the defense to explain publicly what “standing silent” in this case actually means would not prejudice the defendant. I don’t believe that fact was disputed except perhaps for Mr. Logsdon’s “blue toothbrush” claim.

I don’t believe Olson ever claimed the press could not explain “standing silent” because of the gag order. Rather, she maintained that letting parties to the gag order explain the meaning of standing silent would not be prejudicial to the defendant. That is the standard for gag orders, as I understand them.

SBM.

I disagree with your interpretation of her argument. If someone has her exact words, I'm happy to reconsider, but from what I remember, she was making the point that the media couldn't explain standing silent because of the gag order, which seemed to be the theme of the entire motion.

"Olson suggested that allowing prosecutors and defense attorneys to speak with reporters — if they want to — to explain legal proceedings or terms, for example, would improve coverage of the case to the benefit of the public."

Judge weighs challenge to gag order in Bryan Kohberger case

Bryan Kohberger wore a suit to court as his attorney asked a judge to keep a gag order governing the case in place.

www.courttv.com

I also believe that if her point was that explaining standing silent wasn't prejudicial, she was making a very foolish argument as the judge had already given his thoughts on the matter.

MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

TBH I don’t fully understand this whole grand jury secret thing … but I have been reading about the Idaho Law governing it ….

Yes the only people that hear what the Prosecution deliver, appear to be the Grand Jury Members ….. but wouldn’t they have to deliver their verdict to a judge at the end???
I have seen a judge mentioned in my reading …. But not that specifically …

I find this entire Grand Jury “concept” in this case, to not be very fair and equitable ….. as they only hear one side, from the Prosecution … and yet at a trial there is supposed to be full sharing of information between Prosecution and Defence, prior to the trial.

It would be Intersting to see the statistics for Grand Jury hearings… do they ever not end with a result of indictment ?
The prosecution could only tell the GJ major pieces of evidence, which can look damning but infact could only be a small part of the “story” and there is no one to cross examine that evidence …..

JMO

Edit to add: oooops I think we were all posting at the same time…

American jurisprudence has put specific tools into the hands of prosecutors, though. A lot of the system (presumption of innocence in particular; right to remain silent; right to have an attorney present) are defendant-friendly.

In theory, anyone who wants to accuse someone else of a crime should have a venue to do that. They should not have to approach the perpetrator of the crime, but should bring the crime directly to one of three entities: Law Enforcement (who cannot indict); District Attorney (who has two paths: Judge signs off on indictment OR Grand Jury signs off on indictment). The Judge's preliminary hearing is public. It is very very much to the defendant's advantage (even though he wasn't consulted) not to have a lot of evidence in MSM. Indeed, if whatever would have been presented at the PH was what I think it was going to be (it would have included autopsy material), it would have been international news and developed into salacious stories that persisted for a long time.

He would still have been indicted.

I think the State wants these charges to stick. Really, when a Judge rules in a PH, they are going to refer most cases to trial. It's not as if judges routinely find reason to quash the process of justice when LE and the State agree it should move forward. There was not going to be a lot for the Defense to do, or say (and it would have tipped their hand) The State can claim it has done everything possible to give Bryan Kohberger a fair trial.

And they have. When and if the trial eventually happens (and it may not, if the evidence is horrific and strong), it's going to be very hard on all the families, as it is.

We don't need to have more details out in the public, right now. IMO. And that's why there are Grand Juries, who take their jobs very seriously and also represent the "reasonable persons" that will be on any impaneled jury (the Judge for the GJ has that singular responsibility to ensure they are regularly qualified "peers" and "reasonable").

IMO.

 

[Balthazar]

This has always made less sense to me than the delay in the roommates calls.

My uncle was a major case unit detective for a major cities robbery and homicide division and would have to drop whatever family thing he was doing while ‘off duty’ on more than one occasion.

I know they are obviously more stretched for resources in Moscow, and that my experience (with my uncle) is not representative of all agencies/depts. policies and procedures… but how many crimes rise to the level of this one…in a college town no less….

I may be wrong, but I believe the detective said he was out hiking at the time out of range of cell service and that was the cause of the delay in him getting to the scene. JMO.

 

[jepop]

I'm again wondering if defendant travelled to Indian Hills Drive from Pullman beginning 2.53ish via Nevada, Stadium, Main Street, then immediately south onto Bishop, then south onto Johnson Road. Johnson becomes Sand. Sand becomes Palouse. He could have crossed the intersection at Sand/95 to be be in the rural Indian Hills neighbourhood.Moo.

I think this may be the way he went afterwards. I think he may have taken this back road to the south of Palouse (at the very eastern end of Palouse) towards Blaine then gone west again near Blaine cemetery on a road called Enid to connect with Hwy 95 again. Maybe he turned on his phone around there somewhere (at about 4.50am) after getting a little lost. The road connecting east Palouse to Blaine is windy as....*. I did some street views and Blaine is the minutest little place. There's not much there, almost nothing in fact. The roads are rural, it would have been very dark. Looking more closely at the PCA's loop map of possible route of travel (it's very hard to decipher) with the help of those great maps by @SharonNeedles posted up thread, it seems BK may also have gone rural again just after Genesee via Cow Creek road I think (direction south-westish), to connect with Union town. He's then on the main Hwy north of Union for a while before once again going rural at some point closer to Pullman: that connects him with Johnson Road heading north into Pullman by around 5.25am. I think it's possible he was keen to stay off the main roads. Moo

EBM to corrrect SharonNeedles name regarding mapping.

 

[Nila Aella]

• 06/13/2023 Defendants Reply
• 06/13/2023 Motion to Stay Proceedings
• 06/13/2023 Notice of Hearing
• 06/13/2023 States Response to Defedant's Motion

 

[10ofRods]

I'm again wondering if defendant travelled to Indian Hills Drive from Pullman beginning 2.53ish via Nevada, Stadium, Main Street, then immediately south onto Bishop, then south onto Johnson Road. Johnson becomes Sand. Sand becomes Palouse. He could have crossed the intersection at Sand/95 to be be in the rural Indian Hills neighbourhood.Moo.

I think this may be the way he went afterwards. I think he may have taken this back road to the south of Palouse (at the very eastern end of Palouse) towards Blaine then gone west again near Blaine cemetery on a road called Enid to connect with Hwy 95 again. Maybe he turned on his phone around there somewhere (at about 4.50am) after getting a little lost. The road connecting east Palouse to Blaine is windy as....*. I did some street views and Blaine is the minutest little place. There's not much there, almost nothing in fact. The roads are rural, it would have been very dark. Looking more closely at the PCA's loop map of possible route of travel (it's very hard to decipher) with the help of those great maps by Sharon Noodles posted up thread, it seems BK may also have gone rural again just after Genesee via Cow Creek road I think (direction south-westish), to connect with Union town. He's then on the main Hwy north of Union for a while before once again going rural at some point closer to Pullman: that connects him with Johnson Road heading north into Pullman by around 5.25am. I think it's possible he was keen to stay off the main roads. Moo

That's why I believe he got a little lost. He may have thought he could find open space/wilderness to deal with some of the evidence still in his possession and with his bloody shoes/clothes, etc. Instead, he turns off toward Blaine and sees that while it's rural-ish, it's not inhabited. He's really paranoid by that point in time and he doesn't know the area. He's been back and forth to Moscow, but I bet he'd never been on that road to Blaine and didn't know where that road was leading - because his phone was off. He turns it back on so that he can find his way back to Pullman.

Out east of Moscow are many places that do qualify as open space, but east of Blaine are a web of local roads, all of them "residential" in the sense that driveways and other smaller roads break off the road that Kohberger took to get into Blaine. Not a place to try and dump evidence. I think he's probably directionally challenged and did not have a clear idea of when he was going to hit the southernmost point of his route leading back to Pullman.

Do we know whether he successfully navigated from the 95 to the 195 on his first trip that Sunday? Or did he go all the way south to Clarkston/the Snake River on that trip. It's possible that he was aiming to get to the Snake on the first trip, got lost, went into adrenalin slump, was exceedingly brain-fogged and just went home.

imo

 

[Nila Aella]

Wow.

Statement In the Argument:

Mr. Kohberger knows that exculpatory evidence exists.

Conclusion:

Mr. Kohberger is entitled to review all grand jury proceedings as set forth in his original “Motion to Make Available the Record of All Proceedings of the Grand Jury Pursuant to I.C.R. 6.2” filed May l9, 2023. Although good cause is not required, it exists because grandjury was empaneled after months of intense media coverage in small community, exculpatory evidence exists, and there may be single error or cumulative errors which require the examination of the entire grand jury record. He does not object to the records being sealed as clarified earlier. He agrees with the State that grand juror notes should be included in the records provided. Should the Court release only partial records or transcripts, Mr. Kohberger requests stay of all proceedings pursuant to ldaho Code §2-213 until such time as he is able to review, request additional records, provide sworn statement of reasons, and file I.C.R. 48 motion to dismiss.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061323%20Defendants%20Reply%20to%20States%20Supp%20Resp%20to%20Defendants%20%20Motions%20Re%20Grand%20Jury%20Record%20and%20Transcript.pdf

I.C.R. 48. Dismissal by the Court. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Idaho Criminal Rule 48. Dismissal by the Court

(a) Dismissal on Motion and Notice. The court, on notice to all parties, may dismiss a criminal action on its own motion or on motion of any party on either of the following grounds:

(1) for unnecessary delay in presenting the charge to the grand jury or if an information is not filed within the time period prescribed by Rule 7(f), or for unnecessary delay in bringing the defendant to trial, or

(2) for any other reason if the court concludes that dismissal will serve the ends of justice and the effective administration of the court's business

 

[Nila Aella]

COMES NOW, Bryan C. Kohberger, by and through his attorney, Anne C. Taylor, Public Defender, and hereby moves this court to stay all proceedings in this case pursuant to Idaho Code §2-2l3.

Mr. Kohberger has the right and intends to contest the indictment. ldaho Code 2-213 (l) allows the defense to seek stay of proceedings: [w]ithin seven (7) days afier the moving party discovers or by the exercise of diligence could have discovered the grounds therefor, and in any event before the trial jury is sworn to try the case, party may move to stay the proceedings, and in criminal case to quash the indictment, or for other appropriate relief, on the ground of substantial failure to comply with this chapter in selecting the grand or trial jury. Mr. Kohberger seeks to stay the proceedings as appropriate relief while the matter of the grand jury record is argued and prepared.He is exercising due diligence to discover the grounds upon which to file motion to dismiss related to how the grand jury was selected.‘ He is being delayed through no fault of his own.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061323%20Motion%20to%20Stay%20Proceedings.pdf

Idaho Code:

2-213. STAY OF PROCEEDINGS OR QUASHING INDICTMENT FOR IRREGULARITY IN SELECTING JURY — EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF MOTION — REMEDIES EXCLUSIVE — CONTENTS OF RECORDS NOT TO BE DISCLOSED.

More at the link below

Section 2-213 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[Balthazar]

Great find! Starbucks is 24/7?

That store's hours are 4:30am to 7 pm. Even Starbucks flagship store is only open until 10pm. I've never heard of a 24x7 Starbucks.

 

[girlhasnoname]

• 06/13/2023 Defendants Reply
• 06/13/2023 Motion to Stay Proceedings
• 06/13/2023 Notice of Hearing
• 06/13/2023 States Response to Defedant's Motion

Not surprising, the Defense is challenging the validity of the GJ indictment. They have stated that the GJ was empaneled during the time that there was such intense national media attention they could have been biased.

This is going to drag on for awhile folks, BK has some great Public Defenders on his side.

Having said that, I still believe they have the right defendant in custody.

MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

Notice of hearing Exception/extension of Alibi demand: 6/27

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061323%20Notice%20of%20Hearing%20-%20Def%20Motion%20for%20an%20Exception%20or%20In%20Alternative%20to%20Extend%20Time%20for%20Compliance.pdf

Counsel for the defendant hereby gives notice of the intent to present oral argument and/or testimony in support of said motion.

 

[Nila Aella]

States response to Motion for exception/extension Alibi demand:

Balancing the above, the State has no objection to reasonable extension oftime for the defense to comply with its obligations under ldaho Code §l9-Sl9 with the understanding and expectation that the State will likewise have reasonable period of time to respond to any proffered Notice of Alibi and with the additional understanding that any defense compliance with Idaho Code §l9-519 occur by July 24, 2023

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061323%20States%20Response%20to%20Defs%20Motion%20for%20an%20Exception%20or%20in%20Alternative%20to%20Extend%20Time%20for%20Compliance.pdf

 

[jepop]

That's why I believe he got a little lost. He may have thought he could find open space/wilderness to deal with some of the evidence still in his possession and with his bloody shoes/clothes, etc. Instead, he turns off toward Blaine and sees that while it's rural-ish, it's not inhabited. He's really paranoid by that point in time and he doesn't know the area. He's been back and forth to Moscow, but I bet he'd never been on that road to Blaine and didn't know where that road was leading - because his phone was off. He turns it back on so that he can find his way back to Pullman.

Out east of Moscow are many places that do qualify as open space, but east of Blaine are a web of local roads, all of them "residential" in the sense that driveways and other smaller roads break off the road that Kohberger took to get into Blaine. Not a place to try and dump evidence. I think he's probably directionally challenged and did not have a clear idea of when he was going to hit the southernmost point of his route leading back to Pullman.

Do we know whether he successfully navigated from the 95 to the 195 on his first trip that Sunday? Or did he go all the way south to Clarkston/the Snake River on that trip. It's possible that he was aiming to get to the Snake on the first trip, got lost, went into adrenalin slump, was exceedingly brain-fogged and just went home.

imo

I'm definately coming around to the idea he may have turned on his phone after losing his way. Moo

Re the bolded part of your post above: Studying the maps in PCA and @SharonNeedles' interpretations of them, Imo yes he successfully navigated from Highhway 95 to 195 on his 4.50am to c5.30am trip. I think just off 95 near Genesee travelling south he took a right (west) probably onto Cow Creek Road. This took him in a kind of sswesterly direction to conect him with Union town Road then Union Town on Highway 195. From there he headed North to Pullman. So imo he wasn't near Clarkson and the Snake River on this first trip. He turned right (east) off Highway 195 at some point before Pullman and connected with Johnson Road to the the north of the actual township of Johnson. He then took Johnson Road west and north back to Pullman.Moo. His Elantra is captured on video at 1300 Johnson Road at about 5.25am.

EBM to change Toad to Road.

 

[jepop]

That store's hours are 4:30am to 7 pm. Even Starbucks flagship store is only open until 10pm. I've never heard of a 24x7 Starbucks.

They exist but not in Pullman

 

[jepop]

Not surprising, the Defense is challenging the validity of the GJ indictment. They have stated that the GJ was empaneled during the time that there was such intense national media attention they could have been biased.

This is going to drag on for awhile folks, BK has some great Public Defenders on his side.

Having said that, I still believe they have the right defendant in custody.

MOO

This is more along the lines of what I expected the defense to be preparing. They are doing their job. Exculpatory on "information and belief" does not carry the same meaning as exonerating. Moo. The defense is well prepared but so is the prosecution. Moo

 

[Nila Aella]

Not surprising, the Defense is challenging the validity of the GJ indictment. They have stated that the GJ was empaneled during the time that there was such intense national media attention they could have been biased.

This is going to drag on for awhile folks, BK has some great Public Defenders on his side.

Having said that, I still believe they have the right defendant in custody.

MOO

IMO, the D is focusing on multiple angles, not just media coverage.
The D is not vague in the first two items on their list.
Only the third about errors says "may."
JMO

Statement in D Conclusion:

Although good cause is not required, it exists because grandjury was empaneled after months of intense media coverage in small community, exculpatory evidence exists, and there may be single error or cumulative errors which require the examination of the entire grand jury record.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061323%20Defendants%20Reply%20to%20States%20Supp%20Resp%20to%20Defendants%20%20Motions%20Re%20Grand%20Jury%20Record%20and%20Transcript.pdf

JMO