4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[Twistinginthewind]

That reminds me, the new episode of ABC’s podcast about the murders came out a few days ago. The ABC reporter (sorry, her name escapes me) spends some part of the episode going over the delayed and confused 911 call. What I picked up from it (and what I’ve read in other speculation), the surviving roommates were too freaked out to leave their room(s), especially when none of their friends/roommates were responding to texts or calls. (Because they had been murdered.)

So they eventually got some other friends to come check things out (while the survivors were still hiding in their room(s)). That apparently resulted in the confused 911 call … multiple people were talking to the operator using the same phone.

There’s a lot more, but I’m not sure of which pieces were confirmed (to the ABC reporter via local LE—this reporter was on the ground in Moscow a few days after the murders), and which parts were the reporter explaining some early theories that were later debunked. (They do make it clear, I just don’t remember which was which. I had surgery yesterday and I’m still a bit loopy.)

It’s a good podcast so far, and really manages to establish the town/setting and who the victims were in the first episode. (Two episodes so far.)

Thanks for sharing that, @ArianeEmory.

That sounds like the most likely situation, IMO.

I realize it was surprising to some, the number of hours before the 911 call.

I've always thought when the survivors knew something was wrong at some point, they were too petrified / in shock to assess if they were still in a threatening situation or what had happened to just automatically call 911, e.g., what if their friends were just sleeping after a late night, and they called 911 for no reason?

That was borne out in the PCA, IMO, where it described DM in a frozen shock phase.

I can totally understand how it all went down taking that view of things.

The two of them will never be the same after all they've been through, and if people are focusing on their behavior and questioning it, IMO, that ain't right.

Traumatized, they were.

JMO

 

[Balthazar]

Maybe these?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I disagree that the motion indicates BK has an alibi. It just indicates that the defense is doing their due diligence in a very serious case.

It's so nice to see you, posting here @gitana1 ! Thanks for weighing in.

 

[10ofRods]

Drugs or sex could be possible other reasons BK's car is on video and cell pings at least 12 times. That makes little sense to me bc: Why drive ten miles to get drugs or sex when BK's uni was larger, probably more of both? Where there is more, things are usually cheaper for shoppers. Buying drugs would be more high risk in Idaho where the law is pretty straightforward: It is illegal to possess even marijuana in the state. So maybe BK was bringing drugs from WA to ID to sell to make extra cash? If caught, he could be charged with trafficking, stricter federal laws crossing state lines with drugs to sell. And how did his buyers reach him? Wouldn't there b a trail of evidence from his buyers or sex workers who would testify?

IF the defense went with sex or drugs alibi, doubtful, but Anne Taylor would have a long list of past or present clients arrested in the area for substance charge, buying or selling, or maybe a sex worker arrested around there. Someone with an arrest record AT could put on the stand as collaborator that the area was indeed their stomping ground and the arrest record backs that up. Maybe the prosecution interviewed somebody from that arrest list and ruled them out early on so their interview didn't make it into the evidence turned over to the D. D needs to see what that possible witness said b4 they use them.

I'd b more inclined to believe BK had to pay for sex bc he either had a paraphilia or dysfunction that could not be satisfied in conventional ways. BK having to pay a sex worker to act out his twisted "fantasy" is believable to me.

Defense would still need to deal with the mountain of other evidence, most not yet public.
JMO speculation. I believe they have the right guy. MOO

I agree that the drug traffic flows in the other direction. Moscow PD is much more committed to slowing the roll of drug business, although they are clearly aware that with legal marijuana just 10 minutes away, that people who are residents of WA can easily become low level sales people to students at U of I. It's an open secret, IMO.

OTOH, there's very little evidence that U of I has any major drug issues or, even more certainly, many sex workers!

I really don't think drugs had anything to do with this, unless Kohberger was himself using (as he was known to do in the past). It's possible he was trying to be lightweight dealer in Moscow (he wouldn't be the first grad student to attempt to play that role).

IMO.

 

[Megnut]

Can anyone tell what brand of shoes BK is wearing in this photo?
View attachment 429098

Standard issue mall cop?

 

[10ofRods]

I don't think there's a strong connection between what BF might say to the defense counsel and the GJ. There have been a certain amount of strategy as well as impatience on the part of the DA. DA is understandably under pressure from family and community to seal the deal and make sure the indictment came down and the clock started to run.

Looks as if BK might end up waiving his right to a speedy trial all on his own, as the date is approaching. That would have been one goal of convening the GJ. While BK has many means of delaying his trial, the delay does not help the prosecution and had they waited until after the preliminary, more time would have been lost. The delay, if it is entirely due to the Defense, doesn't look good in the public eye, either. The State ends up looking eager to go forward. Why would an innocent defendant not also be eager to go forward? The answer appears to lie in the state of the evidence.

By telegraphing their desire to interview one of the victim-roommates, the Defense pulled a card that made the State pull its own respective playing card (Grand Jury).

Since the GJ is chosen in the same way as a regular jury for this sitting, it is like a poll done by the State regarding the strength of its evidence in front of real jurors - instead of in front of MSM, as would have been claimed by the Defense. The Defense would surely have challenged the results of the PH, due to unwanted publicity, if the PH had taken place, giving them just one more basis of appeal (now removed from the playing field).

Thats their job: to defend their client in every way possible (otherwise, not only would Taylor and company look bad, but could actually result in overturning the verdict of any trial). Defense attorneys do not like when they're the source of a screw-up, even if the result (a second trial) might be a desired outcome. There are other ways to accomplish that without burning one's own career to the ground.

If Kohberger doesn't want to go to trial any time soon, that's his business and the business of the Defense (if there's no alibi and no counter evidence to what was shown to the GJ, stalling is his best tactic). Although after a couple of years in jail, many inmates hear the gossip about prison being "better" than the jail (usually more services; certainly a large batch of people with whom to interact). That might not matter to Kohberger. A good judge will make sure that this case gets shepherded closer and closer to a trial, no matter what.

I think it's going to be a couple of years. Will happily eat my cap in October if this trial goes forward as scheduled (which it could; Anne Taylor is certainly not stupid and instead, highly competent - she has many variables to weigh).

IMO.

 

[Boxer]

That's his car on the video heading towards the crime scene.
That's his car on the video outside of the crime scene.
That's his cell phone on the towers that align to those videos.
That's his DNA on the holster of the murder weapon.
There's eye witness that described a person that does not exclude BK. Long before there was a BK.

If that's not the goods......what is?

Agree.

 

[Boxer]

@North_Idaho_Nony, I remember reading the same thing as what Balthazar posted, in MSM in the first week or so after the murders.

This is all IIRC only, since I think it isn't sourced online anymore (I can no longer find the article I remember reading, it was published in late November, maybe in The Idaho Statesman?):

• There could have been a longer than usual response time to the 911 call, like 20 to 50 minutes?
• The 911 caller didn't report a stabbing, but an unconscious person, so maybe response was prioritized differently in the chain of command? (see excerpt from MSM link below)
• Something along the lines of the 2 or 3 (?) officer(s) on duty that day, one of them was out on another call and/or one was not within cell phone range?
• Sunday could be a day when fewer officers were on duty, and on call officers difficult to reach maybe?
• The officers had all worked long shifts the day before when the football game was being played, so many were given the next day off?
• Chief Fry off duty

"... there were no calls to 911 until noon Sunday. Fry did not say who called 911, despite two people being at the home when the killing took place and when officers responded. Fry also declined to say if the two people spoke with police.

“We’re not going to go any further into what they know and what they don’t know,” he said.

He did say the call came in for an unconscious person, not a person with a stab wound."
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/16/us/university-idaho-killings/index.html

JMO

If they called 911 upon discovering the bodies there is no delay. Getting up at noon on Sunday not unusual, especially for young partiers.
If there was calling of friends first I think it was a psychological attempt to make what they were seeing "unhappen."

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Do you think he didn’t do it or that he has an alibi?

I think he did it. I personally am not comfortable co-signing, for lack of a better term, declarative statements at this stage, MOO. The rest of the post really resonated with me.

 

[U.N. Known]

Because murder is the most serious crime possible with the most serious possible sentences.

I believe you misunderstood my point. I explained it up thread.

 

[U.N. Known]

1. That's his car on the video heading towards the crime scene.
2. That's his car on the video outside of the crime scene.
3. That's his cell phone on the towers that align to those videos.
4. That's his DNA on the holster of the murder weapon.
5. There's eye witness that described a person that does not exclude BK. Long before there was a BK.

If that's not the goods......what is?

I added #s for ease of discussion...

The evidence we know of is phenomenal. It’s extremely substantial.

Finally, someone says it!

The only item on the above list that is concrete is BK's DNA on the knife sheath. While it is implausible that his DNA got there other way than by his handling of the sheath and subsequently leaving it, It is not impossible that the sheath was left by someone else or by BK at some other time.

THE CAR: There is nothing in the videos that uniquely identify the car as belonging to BK (LP #, BK seen inside the car driving by the house, etc.). The car driving toward the scene may be BK's but that does not mean that the car seen in #2 is the same car (the reverse is also true). Again, not likely but not definitively "his car."

THE PHONE The phone appears to have been on the move for a short period of time before the crimes happened and a short time after they happened. Yet, the phone is not known to be in the car that is at the crime scene...what did someone say earlier--a negative is not proof or something like that?

THE "EYE WITNESS" Was not an eye witness to the murders. What the witness did see was a man she did not say she knew, whose face was partially covered. His body and the part of his face that she did see "did not exclude BK", nor do they exclude a lot of other men.

My sense of justice for victims, defendants, and potential victims due to a wrongful conviction or pitiful prosecution demands that I don't declare someone guilty, online or otherwise without knowing more than what I can poke holes through. OR maybe part of me enjoys playing devil's advocate.

it should go without saying at this point, but all of the above is based on what we are privy to at this moment.

 

[schooling]

Can anyone tell what brand of shoes BK is wearing in this photo?
View attachment 429098

If you put me on the spot and told me I needed to answer in 30 seconds….New Balance the overall shape, patterns and particularity the way the sole comes up and wraps around to the peek out of the front.

I’m a sneaker collector. But 99% Air Jordan’s.

 

[acutename]

If you put me on the spot and told me I needed to answer in 30 seconds….New Balance the overall shape, patterns and particularity the way the sole comes up and wraps around to the peek out of the front.

I’m a sneaker collector. But 99% Air Jordan’s.

these?

Men's New Balance MID626v2

Men's MID626v2 by New Balance at Zappos.com. Read New Balance Men's MID626v2 product reviews, or select the size, width, and color of your choice.

www.zappos.com

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I added #s for ease of discussion...


The only item on the above list that is concrete is BK's DNA on the knife sheath. While it is implausible that his DNA got there other way than by his handling of the sheath and subsequently leaving it, It is not impossible that the sheath was left by someone else or by BK at some other time.

THE CAR: There is nothing in the videos that uniquely identify the car as belonging to BK (LP #, BK seen inside the car driving by the house, etc.). The car driving toward the scene may be BK's but that does not mean that the car seen in #2 is the same car (the reverse is also true). Again, not likely but not definitively "his car."

THE PHONE The phone appears to have been on the move for a short period of time before the crimes happened and a short time after they happened. Yet, the phone is not known to be in the car that is at the crime scene...what did someone say earlier--a negative is not proof or something like that?

THE "EYE WITNESS" Was not an eye witness to the murders. What the witness did see was a man she did not say she knew, whose face was partially covered. His body and the part of his face that she did see "did not exclude BK", nor do they exclude a lot of other men.

My sense of justice for victims, defendants, and potential victims due to a wrongful conviction or pitiful prosecution demands that I don't declare someone guilty, online or otherwise without knowing more than what I can poke holes through. OR maybe part of me enjoys playing devil's advocate.

it should go without saying at this point, but all of the above is based on what we are privy to at this moment.

Good points, @U.N. Known !

Re the first original (unnumbered) "concrete" item on the "list" presented above, (BK's DNA on the knife sheath)...

I get your point that it could have "got there other way than by his handling of the sheath and subsequently leaving it...",

And the possibilities thereof that are not impossible, as in "the sheath was left by someone else or by BK at some other time."

It remains to be seen.

Hopefully it will be seen.

I don't have anything to add on the other items on the numbered list.

MOO.

 

[al66pine]

24/7 Starbucks

That store's hours are 4:30am to 7 pm. Even Starbucks flagship store is only open until 10pm. I've never heard of a 24x7 Starbucks.

@Balthazar
Perhaps a bit OT, and afaik not relevant to this case, but ^ post made me curious, [Edit: obvsly way behind on reading thread] had to do a quick search.
A couple of the top results. New to me.

"All 24 Hour Starbucks Listed
Vegevega
Vegevega › all-24-hour-starbucks-listed
Jul 21, 2022 — You can find 24 hour Starbucks locations in 9 of the 50 U.S. states. Including; Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Washington ..."

"Is There A Starbucks That Is Open 24 Hours
sarasveggiekitchen
https://sarasveggiekitchen.com › is-there-a-starbucks-t...
Apr 6, 2022 — The states that have the most 24 hours Starbucks locations include California, Las Vegas, and the Washington DC area...."

 

[schooling]

these?

Men's New Balance MID626v2

Men's MID626v2 by New Balance at Zappos.com. Read New Balance Men's MID626v2 product reviews, or select the size, width, and color of your choice.

www.zappos.com

View attachment 429157

Those look relatively close. Looks like BKs sneakers have a slightly different upper material. Almost like nylon or something more water proof close. Could be just the lighting though.

 

[schooling]

I added #s for ease of discussion...


The only item on the above list that is concrete is BK's DNA on the knife sheath. While it is implausible that his DNA got there other way than by his handling of the sheath and subsequently leaving it, It is not impossible that the sheath was left by someone else or by BK at some other time.

THE CAR: There is nothing in the videos that uniquely identify the car as belonging to BK (LP #, BK seen inside the car driving by the house, etc.). The car driving toward the scene may be BK's but that does not mean that the car seen in #2 is the same car (the reverse is also true). Again, not likely but not definitively "his car."

THE PHONE The phone appears to have been on the move for a short period of time before the crimes happened and a short time after they happened. Yet, the phone is not known to be in the car that is at the crime scene...what did someone say earlier--a negative is not proof or something like that?

THE "EYE WITNESS" Was not an eye witness to the murders. What the witness did see was a man she did not say she knew, whose face was partially covered. His body and the part of his face that she did see "did not exclude BK", nor do they exclude a lot of other men.

My sense of justice for victims, defendants, and potential victims due to a wrongful conviction or pitiful prosecution demands that I don't declare someone guilty, online or otherwise without knowing more than what I can poke holes through. OR maybe part of me enjoys playing devil's advocate.

it should go without saying at this point, but all of the above is based on what we are privy to at this moment.

They are easy to dismiss independently. But how about the phone and the video together?

If I’m a juror…I’m going to have a really hard time accepting that both of those things are just coincidences that befell this poor sap. On a night that he just happened to take a drive at 3am.

Oh ya, and on top of all of that…his DNA just happens to be at the scene.

Also, I’m not saying that the eye witness testimony is conclusive or definitively identifies BK. But if she said she saw someone that was 5’2” and 300lbs with no eyebrows walking out of the house we would be having a different conversation right now. And I bet BK defenders would be shouting about it at the top of their lungs.

The point is she doesn’t exclude BK. So the timeline that starts in Pullman and ends in Pullman hours later isn’t compromised. LEs narrative can remain intact. and include the video of the white Elantra parking.…and logically inferred that it was inside of the house. by a reasonable person.

At some point saying that it was all just a series of coicedences becomes all just a little too much.

IMO

 

[I'm Nobody]

Those look relatively close. Looks like BKs sneakers have a slightly different upper material. Almost like nylon or something more water proof close. Could be just the lighting though.

These? $16.98 Walmart. Unless his mother was still buying his clothes, these would be more affordable. JMO

Athletic Works Men's Omar Walking Shoe, Size: Medium, Blu​

edit trying to make smaller.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Sorry to be behind (as per my usual — deep sigh) if you or someone else has already addressed this, but do you have a source you can share?

I know Chief Fry was out of town when the murders were discovered, but I don’t recall reading that anyone else was, so I’d be grateful to be pointed to what I missed or have forgotten (perfectly possible).

TIA!

@North_Idaho_Nony, I know I read an article a while ago, where I thought it was Chief Fry that said Brett Payne was off hiking somewhere, out of cell phone coverage, and that's what took him so long to get to the crime scene. I am continuing to search for that article, THERE ARE SO MANY......I'll post it when I do....

 

[maconrich]

This is as much as I can enlarge BK's shoes w/o photo being too blurry. Looks like his have a high instep (is that what's it's called?? Or is it high arch?) and almost a triangle on the front top?