4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[girlhasnoname]

I find it interesting that Kohberg had a background in HVAC and the detectives had an HVAC person out during the initial forensic investigation.

Yeah, I've been saying that for the past several threads. Things that make you go "hum"..

 

[girlhasnoname]

I’m not sure what he meant by claiming LE experience. The top of this application is dated November 2015, so he would have been 20 years old? (If he’s 28 now.)

This application with the School District is what got him the Security Guard position.

From the article:

Kohberger was applying to work school security in the Pleasant Valley School District. He was hired and eventually promoted, but resigned in 2021.

In his resignation letter, Kohberger said "I understand that if I do not resign, I have a right to a school board hearing to determine if I should be dismissed from employment with the School District."

Pleasant Valley School District declined to comment on his departure.

Report: Kohberger described cutting fish, boxing in Pleasant Valley School District job application

Bryan Kohberger, the Monroe County man accused of killing four University of Idaho students, described "cutting fish" in a job application from 2015.

www.wfmz.com

ETA: I looked at what he wrote about law enforcement and I think he meant a year of school, not employment. He mentions attending MCTI. Perhaps this place:

Criminal Justice / Criminal Justice

View attachment 428123

Hah, I love that BK was the Regional champ in 2011 for extemporaneous speaking. He's been practicing his efforts to persuade and influence people for a long time, sounds like he's very good at it. A lot of people interviewed have said he loves to talk and prove he knows his subject matter.

I think we got a good dose of that live in the traffic stop in Pullman by the female officer.

MOO

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Hah, I love that BK was the Regional champ in 2011 for extemporaneous speaking. He's been practicing his efforts to persuade and influence people for a long time, sounds like he's very good at it. A lot of people interviewed have said he loves to talk and prove he knows his subject matter.

I think we got a good does of that live in the traffic stop in Pullman by the female officer.

MOO

YES!!! I caught that too!!!!

 

[katydid23]

The complexity of a case involving multiple charges and a large volume of evidence can significantly impact the process of establishing an alibi.

Not if you are telling the truth about your whereabouts. It is what it is.

In the context of this case, Kohberger's attorneys are dealing with 51 terabytes of information which you can view here.
This includes thousands of pages of discovery, thousands of photographs, hundreds of hours of recordings, and extensive electronic phone record and social media data. So it's not as simple as "providing an account of one's whereabouts at the time of an alleged act" as you claim.

Yes, it is as simple as that. It is only complicated if you are trying to manufacture one.

The defense must carefully review the enormous amount of evidence to understand the case against Kohberger and find any evidence that supports his potential alibi.

They have plenty of time to do that. But they don't need to do ALL of that before they tell the court where he was at the time of the murders. Unless he does not have an alibi that can clear him. In that cAse, he needs to go through all that massive discovery to try and find one that might work.

Now regarding your question about 'discovering' an alibi in evidence, it's not about crafting an alibi but finding evidence that corroborates the Kohberger's claimed whereabouts at the time of the offenses. For example, the defense could find a timestamped video in the evidence that shows the defendant at a different location when the crime was committed as claimed by the prosecution.

Again, he doesn't need to offer all of that corroboration BEFORE he sets forth his alibi. Just go ahead and tell the court where he was, and then there is plenty of time to find corroboration for the truth.

Therefore, the multiple charges and the large volume of evidence make the process of establishing an alibi more complex and time-consuming, which is why the defense is seeking an exception or extension of time to comply with Idaho Code 19-519.

The multiple charges have nothing to do with needing more time to figure out an alibi. An alibi is supposed to be THE TRUTH of where one was physically during the crime. It doesn't matter if it was one murder or four---they all happened in a short span of time. Where was he during that time span?

 

[Nila Aella]

Because I had no idea what this was: Extemporaneous speaking

Extemporaneous Speaking (Extemp, or EXT) is a speech delivery style/speaking style, and a term that identifies a specific forensic competition. The competition is a speech event based on research and original analysis, done with a limited-preparation; in the United States those competitions are held for high school and college students. In a Extemporaneous Speech competition, enrolled participants prepare for thirty minutes on a question related to current events and then give a seven-minute speech responding to that question.[1] The extemporaneous speaking delivery style, referred to as "off-the-cuff",[2] is a type of delivery method for a public presentation, that was carefully prepared and practiced but not memorized.

Extemporaneous speaking - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

National Speech and Debate Association - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Nila Aella]

We have to take everything he said in his application with a grain of salt. Clearly he conflates his perception of himself to experiences. I want to be a ranger and was enrolled in some program in school hence equals LE experience.

Over the years, I have learned of many people who have embellished or lied on their job application/resume. Some of these incidents really surprised me. Below is a link to an article about how many people surveyed admitted to lying/embellishing and what people tend to lie about.

72 percent of people surveyed said they lied on their résumés — here are the most common fibs

65 percent of people who admitted to lying on their résumés say it helped them land a higher salary. Recruiters say it's not worth the risk.

www.businessinsider.com

• ResumeBuilder.com surveyed 1,250 Americans about what they've lied about when looking for a job.
• 72% admitted to lying on their résumé, most commonly about education and years of experience.
• 65% of respondents say lying in the hiring process helped them land a higher salary.

MOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

DBM: NYT gift article link already shared!

 

[Idaho transplant]

YES!!! I caught that too!!!!

'SpiderFalcon,' I don't know how to start a new thread, may I please piggyback off yours? In the Idaho Statesman today is an article revisiting the two traffic stops that occurred during Kohberger's return home.

Seems that Howard Blum, a former reporter for the New York Times, is also ........ 'working on a forthcoming book about the Moscow homicides.' Blum contends that the FBI was tracking the white Hyundai when it left Pullman, Wa. but lost track of it soon after. The FBI disputes this contention. On the issue of the traffic stops, Blum is not convinced the FBI wasn't involved. He states that even when the case goes to trial, we may never learn the truth.

And just now, I see the "New" box at the top of the window. Mea Culpa!!

 

[10ofRods]

Now regarding your question about 'discovering' an alibi in evidence, it's not about crafting an alibi but finding evidence that corroborates the Kohberger's claimed whereabouts at the time of the offenses. For example, the defense could find a timestamped video in the evidence that shows the defendant at a different location when the crime was committed as claimed by the prosecution.

Therefore, the multiple charges and the large volume of evidence make the process of establishing an alibi more complex and time-consuming, which is why the defense is seeking an exception or extension of time to comply with Idaho Code 19-519.

Respectfully snipped for focus. While it is true that the Defense needs to look for something the State missed, in collecting its evidence, the State also has a duty to call such a video to the Court's attention - as it is exculpatory. Presumably, LE, FBI and DA have gone over their own video files pretty carefully, starting with whoever logged said videos into evidence.

The Defense, IMO, would likely have to go out and find this video on their own if it's not already been submitted by local businesses/friends of Kohberger, etc. Since the Defense can ask Kohberger where exactly he was that early morning, that should help them in finding this extraneous video. I just really doubt that any such exculpatory video was collected by LE/FBI etc and not noticed.

If it is found, I'd expect the Defense to be back in front of Judge Judge in a heartbeat.

IMO. It would be a most extraordinary thing if there's any video exoneration of BK in that pile of evidence. IMO.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Why do you say that? Everything in the list there is stuff we already knew, or could easily infer, about the elantra?

On another note, I'm finding it hard to join in conversation about this article without having access. Whilst I appreciate the OPs summary, I would prefer to read and draw my own inferences. Especially in regard to this item of the summary

"By the morning of December 19, investigators ID'd BK as a POI."

I think, it's possible that at around this time, LE may have been close to getting probable cause for AT&T BK account phone records (warrants granted 23rd DEc). But how do we infer the precise process and timing from 29th November onwards of LE's narrowing down of BK as POI? He was identified on Nov 29th, we know that much. Moo

Moo

The point I think I would make is we have absolutely no idea how many others were also identified by that date because the info in the PCA was limited only to BK.

We know thousands & thousands of Elantra tips poured in from near & far that were being checked out. There were so many tips about white Hyundai Elantras that a Tip Line (operated by the FBI) had to be started.

I’ll not soon forget the wild goose chase about the wrecked Elantra in OR — and the resources used & time taken — to rule just that one Elantra out. And I suspect that’s just the tip of the iceberg, MOO.

LOL — I am so not a car person, but I see a lot of white Elantras in this area. So, to me, the fact that WSU PD identified a white Hyundai Elantra of the then-wrong model year is interesting only in hindsight — there were probably lots of others. I suspect BK’s was filtered towards the bottom of the electronic list of local white Elantras: not eliminated but not prioritized.

After the arrest, I had an actual nightmare about it . . . before remembering how completely amazing it is to me that an unknown suspect with no (known) direct connection to any of the victims was identified so quickly (relatively speaking). Just really solid & impressive investigative work coupled with some luck, MOO, to so quickly identify a stranger!

If this goes to trial, I expect my mind to be completely blown about an astonishing puzzle coming together piece by piece, and my hunch is the forensic genealogy will be a corner piece.

All MOO, and deep gratitude to all who continue to share their interpretations, thoughts, theories, speculation, and questions!

 

[maconrich]

HE was identified on 29th November, but we do not know the precise evolution of the investigation that lead to him being primary suspect Imo. I would conjecture, that along with possible others, he became a POI on 29th November. By 23rd December LE had the PC to pull his phone records. Moo

ok. So we're discounting the NYT's article by Mike Baker:

"F.B.I. personnel worked with the profile that Othram had produced, according to two people familiar with the investigation, spending days building out a family tree that began with a distant relative.
By the morning of Dec. 19, records show, investigators had a name: Bryan Kohberger. He had a white Elantra. He was a student at a university eight miles from the murder scene."

 

[Nila Aella]

'SpiderFalcon,' I don't know how to start a new thread, may I please piggyback off yours? In the Idaho Statesman today is an article revisiting the two traffic stops that occurred during Kohberger's return home.

Seems that Howard Blum, a former reporter for the New York Times, is also ........ 'working on a forthcoming book about the Moscow homicides.' Blum contends that the FBI was tracking the white Hyundai when it left Pullman, Wa. but lost track of it soon after. The FBI disputes this contention. On the issue of the traffic stops, Blum is not convinced the FBI wasn't involved. He states that even when the case goes to trial, we may never learn the truth.

And just now, I see the "New" box at the top of the window. Mea Culpa!!

Then we have these reports in January that it was a "law enforcement coalition" or a "task force" that requested the pullovers.

<modsnip: not an approved source>

FBI denies it was the agency that asked cops to pull over Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger

The FBI denied asking Indiana cops to pull over Bryan Kohberger as he drove with his dad to Pennsylvania – though the agency was part of a law enforcement coalition that made the request.…

nypost.com

And now it was a drug interdiction stop? IS article:

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article276185446.html

Multiple stories are out there now. I tend to agree with Blum, we may never learn the truth. JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Respectfully snipped for focus. While it is true that the Defense needs to look for something the State missed, in collecting its evidence, the State also has a duty to call such a video to the Court's attention - as it is exculpatory. Presumably, LE, FBI and DA have gone over their own video files pretty carefully, starting with whoever logged said videos into evidence.

The Defense, IMO, would likely have to go out and find this video on their own if it's not already been submitted by local businesses/friends of Kohberger, etc. Since the Defense can ask Kohberger where exactly he was that early morning, that should help them in finding this extraneous video. I just really doubt that any such exculpatory video was collected by LE/FBI etc and not noticed.

If it is found, I'd expect the Defense to be back in front of Judge Judge in a heartbeat.

IMO. It would be a most extraordinary thing if there's any video exoneration of BK in that pile of evidence. IMO.

Your post reminded me of the reported "redacted event" request by the Defense.
#161 in the motion to compel.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050423%20Motion%20to%20Compel%20Discovery.pdf

Which was reported as this:

...and all reports, notes, recordings, and photos from a redacted event.

Bryan Kohberger’s Attorneys Claim Prosecutors Hiding Evidence in Idaho College Quadruple Murder That Could Prove His Innocence

Not sure how MSN knew it was a redacted event? Maybe a records request which showed more or a source? Or?

MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

ok. So we're discounting the NYT's article by Mike Baker:

"F.B.I. personnel worked with the profile that Othram had produced, according to two people familiar with the investigation, spending days building out a family tree that began with a distant relative.
By the morning of Dec. 19, records show, investigators had a name: Bryan Kohberger. He had a white Elantra. He was a student at a university eight miles from the murder scene."

I believe you both could be correct:
Person of Interest on 11/29 turned suspect on 12/19.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Over the years, I have learned of many people who have embellished or lied on their job application/resume. Some of these incidents really surprised me. Below is a link to an article about how many people surveyed admitted to lying/embellishing and what people tend to lie about.

72 percent of people surveyed said they lied on their résumés — here are the most common fibs

65 percent of people who admitted to lying on their résumés say it helped them land a higher salary. Recruiters say it's not worth the risk.

www.businessinsider.com

• ResumeBuilder.com surveyed 1,250 Americans about what they've lied about when looking for a job.
• 72% admitted to lying on their résumé, most commonly about education and years of experience.
• 65% of respondents say lying in the hiring process helped them land a higher salary.

MOO

Agreed, but it doesn't make it right. BK seems trying to appear the 'most' in all situations.

ALL MOO

 

[AusLaw]

Not if you are telling the truth about your whereabouts. It is what it is.


Yes, it is as simple as that. It is only complicated if you are trying to manufacture one.


They have plenty of time to do that. But they don't need to do ALL of that before they tell the court where he was at the time of the murders. Unless he does not have an alibi that can clear him. In that cAse, he needs to go through all that massive discovery to try and find one that might work.


Again, he doesn't need to offer all of that corroboration BEFORE he sets forth his alibi. Just go ahead and tell the court where he was, and then there is plenty of time to find corroboration for the truth.


The multiple charges have nothing to do with needing more time to figure out an alibi. An alibi is supposed to be THE TRUTH of where one was physically during the crime. It doesn't matter if it was one murder or four---they all happened in a short span of time. Where was he during that time span?

I understand where you're coming from, and you're correct in stating that if the defendant is telling the truth about their whereabouts, the alibi is what it is, especially if the alibi was in regards to cheating and the defendant was simply at the market and they are the type dawdle about for hours. However, in the legal system, it's not sufficient just to state the alibi. It needs to be supported by evidence, and that's where the complexity comes in.

Yes, the defendant can state where they were at the time of the murders. However, merely stating an alibi without any supporting evidence is unlikely to be persuasive in court. The defense team must find evidence that corroborates the alibi to make it credible, especially in a serious case involving multiple charges of murder. This is not about manufacturing an alibi, but about building a strong and credible defense.

The sheer volume of evidence in this case requires a significant amount of time to review thoroughly. Even if the defendant knows where they were, it's crucial to find supporting evidence in the disclosed materials. This isn't about finding an alibi; it's about substantiating the alibi.

While it's true that the defendant can state their alibi and then find corroboration, the defense team may want to actually understand the full landscape of the evidence before making any claims. This is a common and prudent approach in criminal defense.

The process of establishing an alibi involves more than just stating where the defendant was. It requires a careful review of the evidence and a strategic approach to building a credible defense. This can be a time-consuming process, particularly in complex cases with large volumes of evidence, which is why the defense has requested an exception or extension of time.

 

[Chloegirl]

I understand where you're coming from, and you're correct in stating that if the defendant is telling the truth about their whereabouts, the alibi is what it is, especially if the alibi was in regards to cheating and the defendant was simply at the market and they are the type dawdle about for hours. However, in the legal system, it's not sufficient just to state the alibi. It needs to be supported by evidence, and that's where the complexity comes in.

Yes, the defendant can state where they were at the time of the murders. However, merely stating an alibi without any supporting evidence is unlikely to be persuasive in court. The defense team must find evidence that corroborates the alibi to make it credible, especially in a serious case involving multiple charges of murder. This is not about manufacturing an alibi, but about building a strong and credible defense.

The sheer volume of evidence in this case requires a significant amount of time to review thoroughly. Even if the defendant knows where they were, it's crucial to find supporting evidence in the disclosed materials. This isn't about finding an alibi; it's about substantiating the alibi.

While it's true that the defendant can state their alibi and then find corroboration, the defense team may want to actually understand the full landscape of the evidence before making any claims. This is a common and prudent approach in criminal defense.

The process of establishing an alibi involves more than just stating where the defendant was. It requires a careful review of the evidence and a strategic approach to building a credible defense. This can be a time-consuming process, particularly in complex cases with large volumes of evidence, which is why the defense has requested an exception or extension of time.

Okay I will bite. Early that morning my hubby went to the grocery store for us. Don't think I didn't remember the timing, circumstances, grocery list, receipt, etc. and the ability for the cashier to confirm his whereabouts. I didn't hear about the events of 11/13 until later that day, but that snapped to my memory immediately. Your brain sort of wants to get it all straightened out in case there's any questions, unless of course you are BK and you would rather sort through 51 TB of evidence to find some sort of legal alibi otherwise. If you are completely innocent in driving around at 4am you should not need additional time to find something to tether you.

 

[Chloegirl]

Hah, I love that BK was the Regional champ in 2011 for extemporaneous speaking. He's been practicing his efforts to persuade and influence people for a long time, sounds like he's very good at it. A lot of people interviewed have said he loves to talk and prove he knows his subject matter.

I think we got a good dose of that live in the traffic stop in Pullman by the female officer.

MOO

Let me at him! I will debate him for sure! I so hope he doesn't think he's getting on the stand to defend himself. JMOO.

 

[maconrich]

I believe you both could be correct:
Person of Interest on 11/29 turned suspect on 12/19.

MOO

Thank you! That honestly makes the most sense to me. IMO. MOO.

Edited to remove why it makes more sense to me.

 

[Boxer]

@Chloegirl
Let me at him! I will debate him for sure! I so hope he doesn't think he's getting on the stand to defend himself. JMOO.
I hope he does take the stand.
Explain his actions.