4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[girlhasnoname]

Perhaps BK saw Maddie and Kaylee on the Food Truck live stream and decided 'tonight's the night'. It would fit the timeline and may have been just the visual experience that set off determination for that particular night?

I def can see BK obsessing over that live stream.

ALL MOO

 

[Boxer]

TBH I don’t fully understand this whole grand jury secret thing … but I have been reading about the Idaho Law governing it ….

Yes the only people that hear what the Prosecution deliver, appear to be the Grand Jury Members ….. but wouldn’t they have to deliver their verdict to a judge at the end???
I have seen a judge mentioned in my reading …. But not that specifically …

I find this entire Grand Jury “concept” in this case, to not be very fair and equitable ….. as they only hear one side, from the Prosecution … and yet at a trial there is supposed to be full sharing of information between Prosecution and Defence, prior to the trial.

It would be Intersting to see the statistics for Grand Jury hearings… do they ever not end with a result of indictment ?
The prosecution could only tell the GJ major pieces of evidence, which can look damning but infact could only be a small part of the “story” and there is no one to cross examine that evidence …..

JMO

Edit to add: oooops I think we were all posting at the same time…

The grand jury is the constitutional process to indict for a felony. Most states have moved indictment to judges, because generally Grand Juries are more favorable to the prosecution. This has created preliminsry hearing which end up being mini trials in high profile cases but Grand Juries are still used.

 

[girlhasnoname]

This is the one I was recalling @SLouTh

by @SharonNeedles : Three maps.

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 60

It's common for PhD students to Uber or deliver food for extra income. Quite a few in daughter’s PhD program worked outside jobs. Her stipend was in the mid- to upper 30s (major metro on East coast, but not an ivy). Housing was not included. She made extra $ working in a comms lab, but it...

www.websleuths.com

Thanks so much, @SharonNeedles is an expert map maker. Miss them on this thread.

 

[ktm44]

I am mainly wondering why the circling and then going over to the area of the Mobil station. If the lights are on, why circle 1122 King Rd 3 times which could draw attention to your vehicle and then leave the area and go over to the area of the Mobil station then come back 35 minutes later? Also, according to Google Maps, it is a 5 minute drive between 1122 King Rd and the Mobil station, so he was doing something else for about 25-30 minutes, then came back to 1122 King Rd. What was he doing?

Strategically, I would think he would have chosen to drive over to 1122 King Rd and lie in wait of the lights going out - maybe on Walenta or in the parking lot of the apartments adjacent to the back yard of 1122 King Rd. It would have made more sense to know exactly when the lights went out, wait 30-45 minutes and then enter the house knowing everyone would likely be asleep by then. But instead, he circled 3 times and then left the area and then came back and went into the house not knowing how long the lights had been out, so he didn't know if it was likely people in the house were still awake or completely asleep. I'm just perplexed by this behavior and the decisions behind it from a defendant who had months to plan this crime.

And I'm also perplexed by what he did while he was over near the Mobil station. He allegedly went down a side street near the Mobil station, so was he thinking of attacking another residence instead? There seems to be a lot of low cost student housing on Hanson, for example and - this is probably just coincidental, but there is a white Nissan Sentra parked at the head of the cul de sac on Hanson.
View attachment 428612
Anyway, I'm really just ruminating over what was going on that night.

We aren't sure of the motive was prowling, hot prowling or fully intending to murder or even if he had more than one residence in his sights.

I would suggest the circling could be because he either didn't feel the circumstances were ideal, perhaps too many lights on in the house, which wouldn't be ideal for prowling, more cars than he expected parked outside or perhaps just deciding which residence was a better fit for him that evening.

I grew up in a family of professional athletes and know many others. Each had a very unique pregame ritual that all focus on mental preparation and while none drove cars circling an area while preparing to harm people but I could see someone circling while mentally preparing for something like this.

 

[Chloegirl]

We aren't sure of the motive was prowling, hot prowling or fully intending to murder or even if he had more than one residence in his sights.

I would suggest the circling could be because he either didn't feel the circumstances were ideal, perhaps too many lights on in the house, which wouldn't be ideal for prowling, more cars than he expected parked outside or perhaps just deciding which residence was a better fit for him that evening.

I grew up in a family of professional athletes and know many others. Each had a very unique pregame ritual that all focus on mental preparation and while none drove cars circling an area while preparing to harm people but I could see someone circling while mentally preparing for something like this.

These behaviors remind me of animals, apologies. They also ruminate, study, circle back, and then pounce. This is the most basic instinct a human would have and I can't relate to it whatsoever. I would like to think he was trying to stop himself, was in an extreme mental state, but more likely he was checking that the coast was clear. JMOO.

 

[Chloegirl]

This seems reasonable. I checked the FCC tower map and I think you're right that he would have been somewhere north of Couger Way area yet at 2:42, but he had to be driving towards campus by then. I've always believed he was at home before he left Pullman, but it threw me with the 2:42/2:44 timings. Although we can only guess he was at home prior, because all we really know is he was utilising that cellular resource, which likely covers all of north Pullman.

I'm still curious what he did for 9 minutes in or around SE Nevada St. I like your suggestion of parking, but 9 minutes is a long time to just sit there. He turned his phone off at 2:47 and was seen in the same area heading south 6 minutes later. It's not like it probably matters, but I want to know how he filled his time. Just thinking? Walking or Jogging? Getting high? What was he doing that he couldn't do at home before he left?

PNW maybe he didn't sleep, but I think people drink coffee!

 

[schooling]

Just wondering if I have this correct??? If google maps / street is on your phone, even if you don’t use it…. It can still be used to track where you have been ??? by downloading the data …

Short answer, yes. Via Frequent Locations (the iOS name, Google has its own). Unless you explicitly turn it off. Go to “My Account” in Google and your stored location data will be right on the front page if you have to turned on.

Along with every. Single. Web search. You’ve. Ever. Made. While. Logged. In……

This is the ‘magic’ that powers the “Go to Work” suggestion, amongst other things, when you open your favorite mapping app.

The tricky thing is with most non-native mapping apps iOS or Android will explicitly ask you if you want to share location data when the app is not in use. Waze is a good example of this on iOS. Waze is owned by Google who is the main contributor to Android so I’m not sure if it asks there.

But the native mapping apps like Apple and Google maps don’t ask. It’s just on by default and they never really tell you about it and they bury the toggle to turn it off.

I’m going to bet BK had it on and had no clue.

 

[jepop]

These behaviors remind me of animals, apologies. They also ruminate, study, circle back, and then pounce. This is the most basic instinct a human would have and I can't relate to it whatsoever. I would like to think he was trying to stop himself, was in an extreme mental state, but more likely he was checking that the coast was clear. JMOO.

Except wild animals circle and close in on the hunt in order to eat in most cases, even a shark ( though I have heard about 'rogue' wolf packs who have occasionally been recorded historically hunting domestic animals to excess, apparently for the joy of it). Wild animals don't follow rituals whilst ruminating on intentional harm. Moo. One domestic exception might be the cat that plays with it's prey - with no intention of actually eating it (or maybe just part of it). But even that is a behaviour largely due to human domestication imo, as our kittys are so well fed that they have excess instinctual hunting energy that needs an outlet. In the case of domestic cats killing wildlife, it's the human owner's responsibility to try and prevent it. In the wild, some animals - foxes spring to mind- may bring back live prey for cubs to practice on. But Imo, this is nature and far more ethical than the cruelty humans are capable of inflicting on each other. Human predator and animal predator are two different species I think. Not the same instinctual motivation. Moo

edit spelling.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

The more I think about his mistakes - the more I’m convinced the the average person here could have done a much better job in planning the crime. (Like leave your phone at home and get a burner.)

 

[jepop]

Short answer, yes. Via Frequent Locations (the iOS name, Google has its own). Unless you explicitly turn it off. Go to “My Account” in Google and your stored location data will be right on the front page if you have to turned on.

Along with every. Single. Web search. You’ve. Ever. Made. While. Logged. In……

This is the ‘magic’ that powers the “Go to Work” suggestion, amongst other things, when you open your favorite mapping app.

The tricky thing is with most non-native mapping apps iOS or Android will explicitly ask you if you want to share location data when the app is not in use. Waze is a good example of this on iOS. Waze is owned by Google who is the main contributor to Android so I’m not sure if it asks there.

But the native mapping apps like Apple and Google maps don’t ask. It’s just on by default and they never really tell you about it and they bury the toggle to turn it off.

I’m going to bet BK had it on and had no clue.

Do they still operate if the phone is off? Or only if in airplane mode? (just thinking in regard to the morning of the crime).

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It appears to me, that it would / (will) be quite difficult to challenge the GJ Indictment …..

I am trying to remember …. And look through all of the documents… but were the Defence notified of this GJ Hearing before it occurred?? Or did they only find out in retrospect?? TIA

As far as we know, no one knew except the prosecution, GJ judge whom empaneled the jury, and the jury.

I read through all the Idaho Criminal Rules and Idaho Codes related to GJs, and they are confidential in every way, links are in one of my posts above from maybe a month ago.

So no, the defense should not have known in an official capacity. But I did speculate they may not have been surprised.

MOO

 

[mmeynstyn]

I did some quick calculations using google maps. If BK was heading from his appartment, prior to being on the south east end of Nevada Street at 2.44am, it would be a 2 minute drive at 2.42am from approximately the intersection of Cougar Street/Road/Drive/Ave and Stadium Way to that location Reading about access to StepToe that may have been blocked due to that accident at c 11.40pm, I figure it was probably the Garden Road exit out of StepToe appartments that BK took if he was driving direct from his residence to Nevada Street south-east. It would, at that time of the morning, take approx 3 mins from Steptoe, along Garden to the intersection of Cougar and Stadium. So if he was coming from home and took the most direct route, he would have actually exited the car park at approx 2.39am. This is nitpicky stuff but I find it semi -interesting! Moo

I'm surmising he may have been at home. He could have been somewhere else, but if so, wherever it was at 2.42am he was still utilising cellular resources utilised by those living at StepToe, so that makes me think he probably wasn't south of Cougar Way, or to the south east on Roads servicing WSU campus. The south east end of Nevada is part of WSU campus. Be interesting to see what the buildings are around there. Will have a squiz a bit later. Moo

You peaked my curiousity, so I went out to google maps to see what buildings are around there. Interesting...."Counseling and Health Services." Hmmmm...Starbucks is what I would need at that time of the morning.

 

[jepop]

You peaked my curiousity, so I went out to google maps to see what buildings are around there. Interesting...."Counseling and Health Services." Hmmmm...Starbucks is what I would need at that time of the morning.

View attachment 428813

Great find! Starbucks is 24/7?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Great find! Starbucks is 24/7?

At this time of year, they have very restricted hours; don't know about back in November.

Starbucks®

 

[jepop]

Great find! Starbucks is 24/7?

Starbucks®

www.starbucks.com

According to google, opening hours are currently 4.30am to 7pm. There might be a way to check a website for seasonal diffs in opening hours though. More likely to open later and close later in the Fall perhaps? Then again, the very time BK was there, just before 3am, probably not. Moo

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1668977782116823042

https://twitter.com/x/status/1668987692116312071

 

[TL4S]

Great find! Starbucks is 24/7?

Starbucks®

www.starbucks.com

According to google, opening hours are currently 4.30am to 7pm. There might be a way to check a website for seasonal diffs in opening hours though. More likely to open later and close later in the Fall perhaps? Then again, the very time BK was there, just before 3am, probably not. Moo

I looked at this before and I thought the Sunday hours were later, too.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669003482182062083

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Starbucks®

www.starbucks.com

According to google, opening hours are currently 4.30am to 7pm. There might be a way to check a website for seasonal diffs in opening hours though. More likely to open later and close later in the Fall perhaps? Then again, the very time BK was there, just before 3am, probably not. Moo

Here's what I get direct from Starbucks, so who knows?

ETA: link again
Starbucks®

 

[10ofRods]

I am mainly wondering why the circling and then going over to the area of the Mobil station. If the lights are on, why circle 1122 King Rd 3 times which could draw attention to your vehicle and then leave the area and go over to the area of the Mobil station then come back 35 minutes later? Also, according to Google Maps, it is a 5 minute drive between 1122 King Rd and the Mobil station, so he was doing something else for about 25-30 minutes, then came back to 1122 King Rd. What was he doing?

Strategically, I would think he would have chosen to drive over to 1122 King Rd and lie in wait of the lights going out - maybe on Walenta or in the parking lot of the apartments adjacent to the back yard of 1122 King Rd. It would have made more sense to know exactly when the lights went out, wait 30-45 minutes and then enter the house knowing everyone would likely be asleep by then. But instead, he circled 3 times and then left the area and then came back and went into the house not knowing how long the lights had been out, so he didn't know if it was likely people in the house were still awake or completely asleep. I'm just perplexed by this behavior and the decisions behind it from a defendant who had months to plan this crime.

And I'm also perplexed by what he did while he was over near the Mobil station. He allegedly went down a side street near the Mobil station, so was he thinking of attacking another residence instead? There seems to be a lot of low cost student housing on Hanson, for example and - this is probably just coincidental, but there is a white Nissan Sentra parked at the head of the cul de sac on Hanson.
View attachment 428612
Anyway, I'm really just ruminating over what was going on that night.

One possible explanation would be that he had scoped out the neighborhood and had more than one possible target in mind.

Also just ruminating. I can picture a scenario in which a person who was used to hot prowling or peeping or creeping in a neighborhood, as a kind of night time stress release/fantasy crime activity. The fantasies would have morphed and shifted until one became more compelling and above all the others - perhaps on that very night. He might have regarded 1122 King Rd as the "ultimate" target within that neighborhood, but still have been considering other, less "ambitious" targets, if this was his first violent attack on people.

IMO