4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[Twistinginthewind]

I could fathom any scenario, it's months until BK's trial after all, where BK isn't the brutal killer of 4 innocent people, really, he's certainly to be presumed innocent based on the law of the land...

We all have that right, presumption of innocence, thankful for that where we live in the US of A.

But if not him, with all the evidence that's been gathered by LE -- local (Moscow PD) and the State and the Feds who were part of the investigation team, IMO the best of the best -- who else could be the perp?

I would really like to know.

Why is he the only suspect?

Who else could be the perp that has operated under the radar, and has since (in the 7 months since their murders), escaped justice?

JMW (Just Me Wondering)...

 

[al66pine]

Choosing Vendors by Location & Price?

Drugs or sex could be possible other reasons BK's car is on video and cell pings at least 12 times. That makes little sense to me bc: Why drive ten miles to get drugs or sex when BK's uni was larger, probably more of both? Where there is more, things are usually cheaper for shoppers....

snipped for focus. @I'm Nobody
Drugs, sex."Where there is more, things are usually cheaper for shoppers."
Discounts or coupons for TAs?
Sorry, ^ prompted me to think about "smart shoppers," so could not help myself from taking the idea one step further.

SERIOUSLY---
^ possibility of def't using arrest rates & street drug dealers, etc. in the area --- to support his (potential) alibi --- is interesting.

Paraphilia, dysfunction? Paying a sex worker to act out his (potential) twisted "fantasy" may be believable to many, could support a (potential) alibi. Would/could BK admit that to his atty's? Allow that info to be presented in court? IDK.

Your post is thought provoking. Thank you for creative thinking.

 

[Chloegirl]

Choosing Vendors by Location & Price?

snipped for focus. @I'm Nobody
Drugs, sex."Where there is more, things are usually cheaper for shoppers."
Discounts or coupons for TAs?
Sorry, ^ prompted me to think about "smart shoppers," so could not help myself from taking the idea one step further.

SERIOUSLY---
^ possibility of def't using arrest rates & street drug dealers, etc. in the area --- to support his (potential) alibi --- is interesting.

Paraphilia, dysfunction? Paying a sex worker to act out his (potential) twisted "fantasy" may be believable to many, could support a (potential) alibi. Would/could BK admit that to his atty's? Allow that info to be presented in court? IDK.

Your post is thought provoking. Thank you for creative thinking.

Ummm... Not saying it can't happen but we live practically in the woods here it's not super exciting, not a ton of options, like less than 20k people so not a real hoppin scene. JIMOO.

 

[Chloegirl]

I could fathom any scenario, it's months until BK's trial after all, where BK isn't the brutal killer of 4 innocent people, really, he's certainly to be presumed innocent based on the law of the land...

We all have that right, presumption of innocence, thankful for that where we live in the US of A.

But if not him, with all the evidence that's been gathered by LE -- local (Moscow PD) and the State and the Feds who were part of the investigation team, IMO the best of the best -- who else could be the perp?

I would really like to know.

Why is he the only suspect?

Who else could be the perp that has operated under the radar, and has since (in the 7 months since their murders), escaped justice?

JMW (Just Me Wondering)...

No, it is him we need more time, possibly less gag order if you are team anti (I waffle). Dude has way too many issues and there is lot more evidence we don't know about against him. Speculating, of course.

 

[Chloegirl]

This is as much as I can enlarge BK's shoes w/o photo being too blurry. Looks like his have a high instep (is that what's it's called?? Or is it high arch?) and almost a triangle on the front top?

Okay, I got to say this is impressive finding the shoes and scanning in this close kudos!

 

[Chloegirl]

24/7 Starbucks

@Balthazar
Perhaps a bit OT, and afaik not relevant to this case, but ^ post made me curious, [Edit: obvsly way behind on reading thread] had to do a quick search.
A couple of the top results. New to me.

"All 24 Hour Starbucks Listed
Vegevega
Vegevega › all-24-hour-starbucks-listed
Jul 21, 2022 — You can find 24 hour Starbucks locations in 9 of the 50 U.S. states. Including; Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Washington ..."

"Is There A Starbucks That Is Open 24 Hours
sarasveggiekitchen
https://sarasveggiekitchen.com › is-there-a-starbucks-t...
Apr 6, 2022 — The states that have the most 24 hours Starbucks locations include California, Las Vegas, and the Washington DC area...."

That would be a good idea if this was NYC, but Moscow is tiny. I was floored to find out Grub Truck was happening at 1pm so bars are pretty much it, other than the better than Pullman shopping of WinCo. Stores close at 7pm. Several like 9 or 10. This place is dark at night, people are not out and about unless they're in party mode, walking their dog, or on their way to work. IMO.

 

[Chloegirl]

Finally, someone says it!

Yes. And that's what we know of, assuming they're holding a lot back for later considering the gag order and whatnot. I find we're dancing around things a lot which is sort of infuriating. It's a strong case I don't want to condemn anyone but it doesn't look good for BK. Trying to be patient, but I do need some more encouragement so there's always tomorrow for new evidence disclosed. JMOO

 

[Cool Cats]

I added #s for ease of discussion...


The only item on the above list that is concrete is BK's DNA on the knife sheath. While it is implausible that his DNA got there other way than by his handling of the sheath and subsequently leaving it, It is not impossible that the sheath was left by someone else or by BK at some other time.

THE CAR: There is nothing in the videos that uniquely identify the car as belonging to BK (LP #, BK seen inside the car driving by the house, etc.). The car driving toward the scene may be BK's but that does not mean that the car seen in #2 is the same car (the reverse is also true). Again, not likely but not definitively "his car."

THE PHONE The phone appears to have been on the move for a short period of time before the crimes happened and a short time after they happened. Yet, the phone is not known to be in the car that is at the crime scene...what did someone say earlier--a negative is not proof or something like that?

THE "EYE WITNESS" Was not an eye witness to the murders. What the witness did see was a man she did not say she knew, whose face was partially covered. His body and the part of his face that she did see "did not exclude BK", nor do they exclude a lot of other men.

My sense of justice for victims, defendants, and potential victims due to a wrongful conviction or pitiful prosecution demands that I don't declare someone guilty, online or otherwise without knowing more than what I can poke holes through. OR maybe part of me enjoys playing devil's advocate.

it should go without saying at this point, but all of the above is based on what we are privy to at this moment.

YOUR QUOTE:
"OR maybe part of me enjoys playing devil's advocate."

I can play devil's advocate too.

MAYBE in all this evidence there is nothing to tie BK to 4 homicides:

51 terabytes of information that includes thousands of pages of discovery, thousands of photographs, hundreds of hours of recordings, many gigabytes of electronic phone records and social media data.

Maybe it's someone else's car that is seen dozens of times on dozens of videos,
maybe it's someone else's phone pinging dozens of times back and forth to the crime scene,
maybe a man who looks similar to BK did it,
maybe someone else dropped a knife sheath in the bed - that "just happens" to have BK's DNA on it.

Maybe the 100's of Search Warrants didn't turn up any incriminating evidence against BK:

No incriminating purchases.
No incriminating online searches.
No Social Media ties to any of the victims or to their family or friends.

Maybe all these criminal investigators missed the real killer and the real killer is still "out there."

Assistant Chief - Washington State University Police Department
Idaho State Police (ISP)
Idaho State Police Forensics Services
Idaho State Police Detectives
Moscow Police Department Officers (MPD)
WSU Police
FBI Agents
FBI Forensic Examiner - 35 years with LE and 12 years with the FBI
Moscow Police Department Sergeant - 22 years with previous homicide investigations
Latah County Sheriff's Deputy Corporal (CPL)
Technical Specialists from all LE organizations
Technical Specialist in digital devices
Technical Specialist in digital media

Cell Site Location Information (CSLI)
Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST)
Idaho State Crime Lab
Othram (Genetics)

 

[Chloegirl]

SFF

Ooo, I never thought of this (BBM). Very interesting possibility. Maybe something more to do with the sheath? Many have thought he might have left it intentionally. MOO

He might be getting a little bit too much credit. The way it stated is is if he is running the show and I doubt very much that's going on. I wish we would stop waffling between mastermind and town imbecile (not you I just mean in general). Most likely it's somewhere in between. There's a lot more evidence even though some of it's going to get holes poked at it. I'm still needing tipping points to lock him up and throw away the key but it doesn't look great there's a lot of things that don't add up with him. JMOO

 

[maconrich]

Okay, I got to say this is impressive finding the shoes and scanning in this close kudos!

@Balthazar shared the photo, I only enlarged the shoes. But thank you!

 

[Idaho transplant]

Yes. And that's what we know of, assuming they're holding a lot back for later considering the gag order and whatnot. I find we're dancing around things a lot which is sort of infuriating. It's a strong case I don't want to condemn anyone but it doesn't look good for BK. Trying to be patient, but I do need some more encouragement so there's always tomorrow for new evidence disclosed. JMOO

In today's Idaho Stateman, Kohberger claims the DA is withholding exculpatory evidence that would clear his name.
That's where the GJ comes into play. Does this revolve around the roommate that was subpoenaed to testify? Do you think Kohberger believes she saw something or someone at a time that doesn't fit the timeline?

 

[wary]

I wonder the same. I just have a niggling feeling that there is some bigger situation connected to this case than we know. I'm generally quite logical and not at all into conspiracies, but I can't help feeling that in a case without missing people, victims with no known enemies, and a defendant that is known to be odd, but not violent, that there is something else, maybe even an adjacent crime that is connected.

Why not just wait for the preliminary hearing? Why not just hand over everything to the defense? As a layperson, I may be over simplifying it, but if you are as confident in the prosecution as many online people seem to think the team should be, why hold back what you have with the defense team?

As for the defense stalling, I also agree that they are not stalling. In fact, I find that a ridiculous notion. Stalling for what? This crime happened in a small, college town. No one there is soon going to forget about what happened, especially considering the prime location where the crime occurred.

I agree that many "alibis" are likely more wishful thinking and creative story-telling than an actual alibi. That being said, IMO, I don't (yet) find BK's/AT's assertion that he has an alibi to be part of the "good ol'" tactic.

I would not be shocked if it turns out that BK was involved in a lesser crime, not because I have info supporting that, but because it would explain his lack of public alibi at this point. If you think you can get out of a murder charge without admitting to whatever you were doing/involved in, why confess to anything?

Because sitting in jail for two years waiting to be tried for first-degree murder is a lot worse than confessing to buying illegal drugs.

MOO

 

[SLouTh]

In today's Idaho Stateman, Kohberger claims the DA is withholding exculpatory evidence that would clear his name.
That's where the GJ comes into play. Does this revolve around the roommate that was subpoenaed to testify? Do you think Kohberger believes she saw something or someone at a time that doesn't fit the timeline?

Do you have a link to the article ??? Only asking as I have also wondered the same …..

News Nation has a Lawyer Mark Geragos, giving opinion ….

Saying that if there is / was exculpatory evidence then the Defence had the “right“ to present that to the Grand Jury ….

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669555574424453120

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger requests indictment pause

Kohberger’s lawyers want to evaluate whether the grand jury that indicted him was biased.

www.newsnationnow.com

And this from the Law … in Idaho

Powers and Duties. The prosecuting attorney has the power and duty to:


(1) present to the grand jury evidence of any public offense, however, when a prosecutor conducting a grand jury inquiry is personally aware of substantial evidence which directly negates the guilt of the subject of the investigation the prosecutor must present or otherwise disclose that evidence to the grand jury;

I.C.R. 6.1. Formation of the Grand Jury | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

 

[SLouTh]

The way it stated is is if he is running the show and I doubt very much that's going on.

Agree @Chloegirl ….. I 100% think it is his Defence at work ….

IMO, the Defence dropped a hint at the “non dissemination order” hearing, that they could be heading this way …. When the defence gave the Judge an additional reason for standing silent at the indictment hearing …..

Edit to add a reference:

Taylor further noted that the suspect kept mute throughout his arraignment on May 22in order to maintain his right to contest the indictment.

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger intends to contest his charge | NY Breaking News

According to a recent court document, Bryan Kohberger intends to challenge the grand jury's indictment for the brutal killings of four University of Idaho students last year.

northeasternpost.com

All IMO

 

[SLouTh]

Trying to be patient, but I do need some more encouragement so there's always tomorrow for new evidence disclosed. JMOO

assuming they're holding a lot back for later considering the gag order and whatnot

There's a lot more evidence even though some of it's going to get holes poked at it. I'm still needing tipping points to lock him up and throw away the key but it doesn't look great there's a lot of things that don't add up with him. JMOO

Offering you encouragement here …. I think we all do think he is guilty from what has been presented so far…. However just a little more evidence would be helpful in reassuring everyone that they have the correct person BARD, and as you say we are not getting that just yet, for a variety of good reasons … and it is frustrating …. And must be especially so, for locals to the case ….

 

[maconrich]

Trying this again. Messed with effects, and it seems like the bottom of the shoes are almost the same color as the floor. Which would mean they're like normal tennis shoes / sneakers without what looked like a gap under the instep/arch. Makes a lot more sense and looks like there could be other touches or gray (on the shoe). Not enough for me to recognize the brand, but the bottom of the shoe was really bothering me.

 

[SLouTh]

Trying this again. Messed with effects, and it seems like the bottom of the shoes are almost the same color as the floor. Which would mean they're like normal tennis shoes / sneakers without what looked like a gap under the instep/arch. Makes a lot more sense and looks like there could be other touches or gray (on the shoe). Not enough for me to recognize the brand, but the bottom of the shoe was really bothering me.

Is that a little tag or logo on the right hand side at the front??? (BK’s left foot)

From your image ….

Although I do wonder if he would still have the same shoes 4 - 5 years later?

Edit to add …. I do think your photography work may have eliminated them as Vans ….??? The profile of the sole seems higher than that of Vans……IMO

 

[maconrich]

Is that a little tag or logo on the right hand side at the front??? (BK’s left foot)

From your image ….

View attachment 429213

Although I do wonder if he would still have the same shoes 4 - 5 years later?

Good catch! I'd guess part of a logo? Not sure though.The way his feet are positioned doesn't let us see the sides where logos would be.Do tennis shoes have little tags?? Thinking about it though, decades ago I had 2 pairs of Reebocks, and I do think they had a small tag on the side, so maybe? If he wore them a lot or used them as running shoes, I tend to doubt he'd still be wearing hem 4-5 years later. My Nike's tend to last a decade even if I wear them a lot, so I guess it all depends. Messing with the contrast etc kind of obscures the triangle on the top, but you can still make it out a little. I've not seen that on the shoes I've been looking at (doing searches).

 

[SLouTh]

Good catch! I'd guess part of a logo? Not sure though.The way his feet are positioned doesn't let us see the sides where logos would be.Do tennis shoes have little tags?? Thinking about it though, decades ago I had 2 pairs of Reebocks, and I do think they had a small tag on the side, so maybe? If he wore them a lot or used them as running shoes, I tend to doubt he'd still be wearing hem 4-5 years later. My Nike's tend to last a decade even if I wear them a lot, so I guess it all depends. Messing with the contrast etc kind of obscures the triangle on the top, but you can still make it out a little. I've not seen that on the shoes I've been looking at (doing searches).

Some Vans do have a tag there … but the ones I have seen are black and white …. But IMO they are not the profile of a Vans shoe ….

I have tried searching for a 2018 model to double check but no luck …

Soles aren’t thick enough to be Hoka‘s …. And they don’t wear out either…. Lol!

 

[maconrich]

Some Vans do have a tag there … but the ones I have seen are black and white …. But IMO they are not the profile of a Vans shoe ….

I have tried searching for a 2018 model to double check but no luck …

Soles aren’t thick enough to be Hoka‘s …. And they don’t wear out either…. Lol!

I started with Vans and haven't seen any that come close to looking like these. They kind of look like a medium chunky shoe (a little but not too chunky). With the colors, I'd say black/white, black/gray or black/silver. Tried looking just at running shoes on the off chance he didn't have a special / different pair for that, but nothing seems to be matching.