4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672411421743906816

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672407007507386370

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin

 

[SpiderFalcon]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672411421743906816

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672407007507386370

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin

DNA that's been included in the discovery, so far. Or that the Defense has looked at. It's ALOT of discovery. Maybe Defense just hasn't gotten thru all of it yet.

 

[Nila Aella]

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323 Objection to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf

View attachment 430890

Perhaps the Prosecution has evidence of clean up, which might be used at trial. Or perhaps, the FBI hasn't completed the processing of the car. AT did ask in her Motion to Compel:

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050423 Motion to Compel Discovery.pdf

View attachment 430891
And the hearing for this is on June 27th. Hopefully, we'll learn more.

That motion to compel was May 4 which was 51 days ago. I would think some of those items have been provided by the state since the motion to compel (I believe they have since JWL mentions the lack of dna evidence regarding the elantra in his objection). I don't think the State would object to providing the elantra results as they came in. JMO.

Great point about the possibility of finding clean-up evidence!
MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

Did we ever hear about the white car in the police body cam video when they responded to the drunk student call around 3 am-ish?

Not that I recall. I went back and checked the body cam again. I see the Police car. A truck pass by right to left. And a car that comes from left to right. The car is hard for me to see clearly. I can't tell if it is white. I don't see a front plate, but it is blurry there and the lighting IMO isn't good. As it passes, the front end does not look like an elantra, to me anyway. And I don't see an angle to the back window. Overall very difficult to see though. I also recall LE saying that it was not the car they were interested in. JMO

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjV_oPxstz_AhVDFVkFHec7DjYQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.khq.com%2Fnews%2Fidaho-murders%2Fmoscow-police-body-camera-footage-showing-white-car-unrelated-to-murder-investigation%2Farticle_4069f036-7769-11ed-b22f-971c4bf3fbb3.html&usg=AOvVaw0SDhaCJOKTPz8fvq0UFwgy&opi=89978449

edit: added link to article LE states not related

 

[duckcat]

Worth noting: LE doesn't close every loop. Time and money are limiting factors. Always. Few cases are beyond all doubt.

Every good defense attorney will exploit that line.

You might think there's a second white car involved, that there are two other perpetrators or accomplices and that BK might be innocent because his car is clean.

But we don't have the whole story.

LE might've run checks on 100 DNA profiles, all matching party goers, all of whom have confirmed alibis. That's not going to show up in a PCA. The two that were tested and yet unmatched, maybe they've been matched since and checked out. Maybe the location of the DNA left it low priority. Basement shower, for instance. Thermostat, for instance. DD bag, for instance. Things that were most assuredly touched, just not relevant to the crime.

The car. Perhaps LE misidentified it early. That's not a mistake or failure, that's just "early in the investigation". We all have bias. Maybe one investigator was "sure" it was a Sentra because of personal knowledge and only later was that assumption challenged. Or maybe LE didn't have all the footage yet and only had information on a Sentra, later ruled out.

His car. Yes, after such a bloody slaughter, and via the Law of Transference, you'd expect to find evidence in his car. But if we were to learn, say, he purchased a ROLL of plastic sheeting and an empty roll of it was found, if we learned he purchased VATS of bleach and hydrogen peroxide and had his car detailed 27 times and had replaced a front seat, a seatbelt, car mats, I don't think we'd be still be expecting DNA to be found.

I notice the motions say nothing about Murphy nor dog hair.

Maybe BK was extra smart about human DNA and managed to leave little of himself at 1122 and to bring little with him, from the roommates. Ah but he may well have attracted some dog hair on his way out --

These motions are interesting but they're bringing no house of cards down IMO.

There may still be questions, when the trial is done and gone. Like how did the killer leave if his car isn't captured at 4:20?

Another case the murderer is enjoying LWOP plus 56 years. CCTV captured him entering the house with the unsuspecting victim. CCTV captured him leaving alone. It didn't capture him leaving with her body. But we know he did. CCTV is not perfect, isn't always a consistent stream. BARD allows room for inference. Just because CCTV doesn't show something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I have every confidence that, when this goes to trial, the Prosecution will lay it out plain. Vehicle data, cellphone data, CCTV, Amazon purchases, Walmart purchases (there's ALWAYS Walmart purchases), receipts, DNA....

We may never know who that rogue DNA belonged to. I don't think it'll be a hurdle too high for a jury. It'll pale.

Jmo

Agreed with all. Bill Thompson just asked for an increase in budget, so let’s hope he can answer these questions. As we know, he’s required to lay all of this all in a simple way well before the case goes to trial. It’s just due diligence and falls under the “right to a speedy trial.” 6-7 months after an arrest, many of those loops should be closed.

IMO it’s concerning that they have been so delayed in releasing the car footage to the defense. That evidence is the least complicated compared to all of the warrants and subpoenas required and the GB of data to mine through in regards to DNA and digital forensics.

The fact that the public has also never seen a single image of the car released by LE is very unusual IMO. A BOLO usually includes a picture of the source vehicle, not stock images. Why even ask for the public’s help to find a very common and generic car, using very common and generic photos? They didn’t share the one unique element that they saw on camera—the lack of a front plate. They captured the car on multiple cameras, thus multiple angles and ranges of img quality. Makes you pause to question why they’ve kept it tight the hip. Again possibly circles back to more than one person.

AT’s assertion that they cherry picked a single seemingly irrelevant photo with the FBI for ID is very odd. Why not share the footage from the multiple cameras closer to the home? Why not share every piece of footage that they believed caught the car that night?

Hopefully the prosecution’s response will clear this up.

 

[kittythehare]

IMO, that isn't the type of thing that is likely to happen with 3 separate individuals. First of all, DNA doesn't remain forever. So if someone was in that house for a party in June, the likelihood of his DNA being there in November is about nil. Second, IMO, LE would have interviewed and/or put out a call for the entire student body who's been in that house in the last few months to come forward if they really wanted to rule out the 3 unknown males. How do they know those 3 men didn't play a role in this? Even if they're 100% sold on BK being the killer, how can they definitively rule out an accomplice without at least trying to figure out who those 3 men were to clear them? Seems to me LE was happy to get their guy. I would be too, but I still believe if he's guilty, he didn't act alone.

MOO.

DNA

How long does DNA last?

www.sciencefocus.com

Exploring the limits for the survival of DNA in blood stains - PubMed

It is generally recognized that usable DNA may be retained in dry biological stains for years. We have explored the environmental limits for this property. Air-dried blood stains were incubated at different conditions of relative humidity (RH) and temperature. The quality of the extracted DNA...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ancient DNA analysis - Nature Reviews Methods Primers

This Primer outlines the best ways to find, handle and analyse ancient DNA from various sources. The authors summarize ethical considerations and the importance of working closely with all stakeholders, including archaeologists, curators and descendant communities.

www.nature.com

https://academic.oup.com/dnaresearch

 

[kittythehare]

How is it nonsense and hot air that supposedly no victim DNA was found anywhere in his car, apartment, or office. Any juror dismissing that type of information is single-mindedly focused on guilt and not approaching the case objectively, IMO, as that's an important piece of (non)evidence.

MOO.

Well afaik no crime was committed in his car office or apartment.
There is probably no dNA in his granny's house or his cousin's yacht either.
Essentially it's a strawman argument.
This boy knew what a hazmat suit was and what it did and it would not have been too difficult to rig up something similar and change into it at any stage.

 

[arielilane]

New filing by Bryan Kohberger's attorney says "there is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohberger's apartment, office, home or vehicle." FIrst time I've seen that victims DNA was not found in those places. Doc: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323%20Objection%20to%20States%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

Had a wording error in my previous tweet, so this is the corrected one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672407063690096640

Edited post

 

[Nila Aella]

So the Ridge Road detail is from an FBI report we are not privy to, correct? I'd be interested in what time and day that took place. I'm also not familiar with the Taylor sighting.

No, that report is not public, only mentioned by JWL in his objection. Would have been real nice of JWL to add the time and direction that car was going . I would think it was sometime that night/early morning if the fbi was looking at it to identify the car JMO.

Taylor sighting:

The rental building faces Taylor Road, which connects King Road and Highway 95. Francetich said the footage showed a side view of a “light-colored” and “white” car going west on Taylor Road on November 13, between 2:45 a.m. and 3:15 a.m.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi9-trHs9z_AhVkFVkFHTgaBO4QFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.crimeonline.com%2F2022%2F12%2F16%2Fidaho-college-murders-landlord-hands-over-footage-of-white-car-spotted-night-of-quadruple-stabbings%2F&usg=AOvVaw1v-VK2e76QO1HqLz7xj2oG&opi=89978449

 

[Cool Cats]

IMO, that isn't the type of thing that is likely to happen with 3 separate individuals. First of all, DNA doesn't remain forever. So if someone was in that house for a party in June, the likelihood of his DNA being there in November is about nil. Second, IMO, LE would have interviewed and/or put out a call for the entire student body who's been in that house in the last few months to come forward if they really wanted to rule out the 3 unknown males. How do they know those 3 men didn't play a role in this? Even if they're 100% sold on BK being the killer, how can they definitively rule out an accomplice without at least trying to figure out who those 3 men were to clear them? Seems to me LE was happy to get their guy. I would be too, but I still believe if he's guilty, he didn't act alone.

MOO.

From what we know, there is no evidence whatsoever that LE "put out a call" for the entire student body to come forward if you were in that house on King Rd. Unrealistic.

LE has no legal right to go around demanding DNA from anyone.

DNA is all over the place, it doesn't change the evidence against BK that there is other DNA found. If someone else helped BK that night then it doesn't change BK's guilt.

3 guys went and killed 8 people in 4 places, blood was all over the floor at one of the places and they dragged a bleeding body and walked in blood leaving shoe prints, etc...

Even so, no victim DNA was found in their 2 vehicles they drove to the crime scenes and they did not leave any of their DNA behind. On top of that there were several unidentified DNA's recovered throughout the 4 crime scenes that did not match the defendants or the victims.

Defense told jury all this and jury didn't care, guy was found guilty on the evidence they presented.

The jury goes by the evidence presented. BK will be found guilty on overwhelming evidence, of which, the defense is buried in right now.

The lawyers on here are surprised by how much evidence there is. One said it is the most she has ever seen in her experience.

2 Cents

 

[TL4S]

No, that report is not public, only mentioned by JWL in his objection. Would have been real nice of JWL to add the time and direction that car was going . I would think it was sometime that night/early morning if the fbi was looking at it to identify the car JMO.

Taylor sighting:

The rental building faces Taylor Road, which connects King Road and Highway 95. Francetich said the footage showed a side view of a “light-colored” and “white” car going west on Taylor Road on November 13, between 2:45 a.m. and 3:15 a.m.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi9-trHs9z_AhVkFVkFHTgaBO4QFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.crimeonline.com%2F2022%2F12%2F16%2Fidaho-college-murders-landlord-hands-over-footage-of-white-car-spotted-night-of-quadruple-stabbings%2F&usg=AOvVaw1v-VK2e76QO1HqLz7xj2oG&opi=89978449

Thanks, this was new to me. I wonder at the 2:45 - 3:15 part. Why a half-hour time frame, which seems odd given it's from surveillance footage? Did they see it more than once? We know from the PCA that the white elantra was still in Pullman at 2:53, so this couldn't be the same car unless it was seen on Taylor St. closer to 3:05 - 3:15. jmo

 

[Balthazar]

It does concern me that the vehicle footage has not been released to the defense. It makes me think the prosecution knows something is wrong with it. Do we know for sure the white vehicle that circled and tried to make a 3 point turn but failed wasn't the DD driver who was lost? Because one thing I noticed immediately about 1122 King Rd is that the parking area/driveway and front of the house faces Queen Rd not King Rd. Could that vehicle have been a delivery driver who was trying to find the house and struggling due to the house not actually being on King Rd? From Googlemaps:

I also still recall that no picture of the actual vehicle was ever released by LE to the general public. All we have seen is a grainy picture from a camera on a gas station/convenience store that we only got to see because the convenience store clerk told a reporter which may or may not be the same vehicle.

 

[TL4S]

It does concern me that the vehicle footage has not been released to the defense. It makes me think the prosecution knows something is wrong with it. Do we know for sure the white vehicle that circled and tried to make a 3 point turn but failed wasn't the DD driver who was lost? Because one thing I noticed immediately about 1122 King Rd is that the parking area/driveway and front of the house faces Queen Rd not King Rd. Could that vehicle have been a delivery driver who was trying to find the house and struggling due to the house not actually being on King Rd? From Googlemaps:View attachment 430908

I also still recall that no picture of the actual vehicle was ever released by LE to the general public. All we have seen is a grainy picture from a camera on a gas station/convenience store that we only got to see because the convenience store clerk told a reporter which may or may not be the same vehicle.

I believe LE would have talked to the DD driver and already ID's his/her car, and I don't think the prosecution would use anything questionable in the PCA. However, an area of concern for me is that the PCA doesn't include any footage of the white elantra between 2:53am near SE Nevada St. in Pullman, and going westbound on Indian Hills Dr. in Moscow at 3:26. Do they have footage of that white elantra actually leaving Pullman and entering Moscow, or anywhere in between during those 33 minutes? Maybe at the time of the PCA they didn't have it yet, but IDK...I question that.

 

[Nila Aella]

Thanks, this was new to me. I wonder at the 2:45 - 3:15 part. Why a half-hour time frame, which seems odd given it's from surveillance footage? Did they see it more than once? We know from the PCA that the white elantra was still in Pullman at 2:53, so this couldn't be the same car unless it was seen on Taylor St. closer to 3:05 - 3:15. jmo

That range and timing has always bothered me too, since it was released. The 2:45-3:15AM car has always been reported as a range. At first I thought this might be the police car involved in the alcohol offense (2:53-3:15AM). But subsequent articles said the owner of the video mentioned the fbi taking a look at the car capture with their special equipment. MOO

This camera also seperately picked up a car heading into the neighborhood and back out a few minutes later: 1:45AM. Noting that there is no range on this report. MOO

The property owner said he also noticed a sedan travelling west towards 1122 King Road around 1.45am and return to the highway a few minutes later, suspecting the involvement of a “third-party driver” who dropped two victims before the murders.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiL-d_Nvtz_AhWZF1kFHa0MAjYQFnoECAgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.yahoo.com%2Fwhite-car-spotted-surveillance-footage-053335628.html&usg=AOvVaw2meRt58gKChAqX0gXpBPqD&opi=89978449

edit: added the neighborhood

 

[TL4S]

That range and timing has always bothered me too, since it was released. The 2:45-3:15AM car has always been reported as a range. At first I thought this might be the police car involved in the alcohol offense (2:53-3:15AM). But subsequent articles said the owner of the video mentioned the fbi taking a look at the car capture with their special equipment. MOO

This camera also seperately picked up a car heading into the neighborhood and back out a few minutes later: 1:45AM. Noting that there is no range on this report. MOO

The property owner said he also noticed a sedan travelling west towards 1122 King Road around 1.45am and return to the highway a few minutes later, suspecting the involvement of a “third-party driver” who dropped two victims before the murders.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiL-d_Nvtz_AhWZF1kFHa0MAjYQFnoECAgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.yahoo.com%2Fwhite-car-spotted-surveillance-footage-053335628.html&usg=AOvVaw2meRt58gKChAqX0gXpBPqD&opi=89978449

edit: added the neighborhood

Yes! 1:45, not some 1:30 - 2 am range. Very strange. The 2:45 - 3:15 time does not coincide with the 3 passes the white elantra makes within a half hour before the final 4:04 pass at King Rd, either. Did the car make a few passes earlier, too? But then why not put that in the PCA? That article was from Dec. 15, so we know LE had this information before writing the PCA.

 

[Chloegirl]

Agreed with all. Bill Thompson just asked for an increase in budget, so let’s hope he can answer these questions. As we know, he’s required to lay all of this all in a simple way well before the case goes to trial. It’s just due diligence and falls under the “right to a speedy trial.” 6-7 months after an arrest, many of those loops should be closed.

IMO it’s concerning that they have been so delayed in releasing the car footage to the defense. That evidence is the least complicated compared to all of the warrants and subpoenas required and the GB of data to mine through in regards to DNA and digital forensics.

The fact that the public has also never seen a single image of the car released by LE is very unusual IMO. A BOLO usually includes a picture of the source vehicle, not stock images. Why even ask for the public’s help to find a very common and generic car, using very common and generic photos? They didn’t share the one unique element that they saw on camera—the lack of a front plate. They captured the car on multiple cameras, thus multiple angles and ranges of img quality. Makes you pause to question why they’ve kept it tight the hip. Again possibly circles back to more than one person.

AT’s assertion that they cherry picked a single seemingly irrelevant photo with the FBI for ID is very odd. Why not share the footage from the multiple cameras closer to the home? Why not share every piece of footage that they believed caught the car that night?

Hopefully the prosecution’s response will clear this up.

Well believe it or not they may have been concerned for the welfare of the person who committed these crimes if they released the video and someone was ID'd. There was a lot of energy around finding this person and maybe they just didn't want it to go sideways? IMO.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

MOO, IMO, with reference to the car videos, and also the recordings AT has asked for in her three Motions to Compel:

I really don't know what type of "equipment" LE uses, as far as body cams, or how LE "saves" surveillance videos, I have ZERO IT knowledge (Somebody HELP, please...) but I work for an entity that uses audio recordings, and it's very expensive to "translate" those audio recordings to the public domain, due to super high tech equipment needed to listen to them in their original form. I wonder, given the wording in the below document, if AT has made an appointment with the Prosecutor's Office to inspect these items. I know this case is becoming VERY EXPENSIVE, for the Prosecutor's office, and I would imagine for Defense, as well.

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/012323 States Response to Request for Discovery.pdf

 

[gremlin444]

Re: car footage. I went back and looked through the Defense motions to compel to see what it mentioned about the car footage. I found it in the 2nd motion to compel from 6/15 (bolded and underlined by me):

2. Request 4: All footage provided to Forensic Examiners with FBI used to identify make and model of vehicle.
a. All reports generated related to the identification of the White Elantra.
b. All reports, communications and documentation related to the change in
year of the White Elantra sought.
c. CV or credentials of Forensic Examiners.
The State has responded by listing various page numbers and file names of recordings
they have previously provided, however, they do not provide any reports generated, communications and documents relating to the change in year of the white Elantra or the identity of the Forensic Examiner who identified this as the make and model of vehicle.

To me, my understanding from this is that the prosecution HAS already provided the footage in screen shot print outs and recordings, and they have indicated the page#s/file names. The defense appears to be saying that they want things that are beyond that--the reports regarding the model year change and info about the Forensic Examiner.

 

[Cool Cats]

Re: car footage. I went back and looked through the Defense motions to compel to see what it mentioned about the car footage. I found it in the 2nd motion to compel from 6/15 (bolded and underlined by me):

2. Request 4: All footage provided to Forensic Examiners with FBI used to identify make and model of vehicle.
a. All reports generated related to the identification of the White Elantra.
b. All reports, communications and documentation related to the change in
year of the White Elantra sought.
c. CV or credentials of Forensic Examiners.
The State has responded by listing various page numbers and file names of recordings
they have previously provided, however, they do not provide any reports generated, communications and documents relating to the change in year of the white Elantra or the identity of the Forensic Examiner who identified this as the make and model of vehicle.

To me, my understanding from this is that the prosecution HAS already provided the footage in screen shot print outs and recordings, and they have indicated the page#s/file names. The defense appears to be saying that they want things that are beyond that--the reports regarding the model year change and info about the Forensic Examiner.

Yes,
the defense is stalling and asking for evidence they are not necessarily entiled to. Evidence the prosecution has already handed over.

The change in car year.
Geneology
GJ

Defense is desperate to find something exonerating because they can't find anything in their 51 terabytes of information. So they overreach. Normal for defense to do with a client who is extremely difficult to defend. So difficult, they never even tried to get bail for him. They won't bother, waste of time trying.

Anything exonerating can be used to at least try to get bail. This is a big clue.

2 Cents

 

[U.N. Known]

From what we know, there is no evidence whatsoever that LE "put out a call" for the entire student body to come forward if you were in that house on King Rd. Unrealistic.

LE has no legal right to go around demanding DNA from anyone. (

Above snipped for focus

I doubt there was an "all call" command either. Everyone was spooked enough and we know many students left school. However, considering that at least one person's DNA was obtained from a discarded cigarette, I assume LE did ask various people and were either turned down or denied a subpoena.

It makes sense that they wanted samples from known associates and perhaps people seen with or near victims that night. So, what made them stop (if they have) trying to identify the 2 additional males whose DNA was in the house? The glove with unknown DNA was mentioned in the evidence, so why did they decided not to pursue that person? I would be most interested in the DNA from the glove (wonder what type it is) because It's reasonable to assume that the killer was wearing gloves.