Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[minor4th]

Guards, I can see as they’re probably not encouraged to make much contact with inmates, regardless of why they’re being held or what assignments the guards are given. I can’t see a psychologist just sitting there taking notes without asking a single wuestion, especially when a person is talking about suicide & murder. That’s like walking into a doctor’s office & him not asking you to describe your pain or symptoms. Not worth debating though.

Supposedly she was just there to make observations. She would not be allowed to question him without advising him of his Miranda rights and obtaining a waiver from RA. Nevertheless, I think she probably did do some questioning and prompting IMO

 

[minor4th]

There’s a relatively large area of land north of the bridge but south of the creek. I’m not faulting the searchers, but I am saying that the way the testimony is framed, it sounds like that particular group probably did not go north of the creek. And if that’s the case, it’s actually somewhat detrimental to the defense’s theory.

View attachment 542466

JMO

I see what you’re saying now. So, I can’t tell what he meant fro. The reports we’ve read.

 

[minor4th]

This photo was taken by Libby shortly before they were abducted. I don't have the timestamp, but it's probably available online. There are other photos of the Monon bridge that can be compared to this photo to determine whether it is the Monon bridge or not.

View attachment 542467

This just leads me to more questions. Is it possible Bridge Guy initially approached them from the bottom of the bridge and then doubled back to follow them as they were at the end of the bridge?

 

[otto]

Thank you so much! That is very helpful. Question: Could the three of them have made it to the final location in 10 minutes? That seems unlikely to me, given the terrain and considering it takes 10 minutes to cross the MHB. I hope someone in the trial has actually determined if that’s possible.

The clothing was found on the South and North side of the creek. That means that the girls were partially or fully undressed (Libby) before they crossed the creek. That means that they either dropped some clothes as clues, or RA threw them into the creek, before they walked up the ravine.

Richard Allen admitted that a white van drove by and interrupted the sexual assault. He had to be on the South side of the creek to be interrupted by the van.

The white van passed at approximately 2:25, ten to fifteen minutes after they were abducted. Then they crossed the creek to the ravine, where they were murdered an hour later.

 

[Inthedetails]

I've thought about that for hours. My gut tells me he was taking pictures but it has been said in here his phone was not in the tower dump. So IF he used a camera he could possibly have made copies at his job at that time. Moo

I've thought for seven years that BG took photos of the girls but now I don't.

There was nothing more to this crime, imo, than RA wanting to hurt two children who happened to be at the bridge that day. It's a horrific crime, but also basic. imo

jmo

 

[otto]

To that end, and because I'm super behind - do we know if anyone walked DOWN from the cemetery (side, not specific location) towards the creek? Not moo - this is a question.

Yes, on the late morning of February 14, (going from memory about early testimony) someone walked down the ravine and discovered the bodies.

 

[minor4th]

The clothing was found on the South and North side of the creek. That means that the girls were partially or fully undressed (Libby) before they crossed the creek. That means that they either dropped some clothes as clues, or RA threw them into the creek, before they walked up the ravine.

Richard Allen admitted that a white van drove by and interrupted the sexual assault. He had to be on the South side of the creek to be interrupted by the van.

The white van passed at approximately 2:25, ten to fifteen minutes after they were abducted. Then they crossed the creek to the ravine, where they were murdered an hour later.

Right, but the photos with the timestamps show that the earliest the van drove by would have been 2:22 PM and we know Libby’s phone recorded activity until 2:32 PM. So that leaves only 10 minutes to get from the South side of the creek where the van drive by to the final crime scene with no further movement on Libby’s phone. Is that even possible?

 

[MassGuy]

Abduction at 2:13 pm. Investigators testified that they believe that RA left the crime scene at 3:30. Someone who looked like him was seen on the road at 3:57.

RA spent more than an hour with the girls - which is the typical time that a victim is kept alive after abduction.

"FBI research revealed that 74 percent of children abducted and murdered were killed within the first 3 hours of their disappearance."

https://leb.fbi.gov/spotlights/crimes-against-children-spotlight-child-abduction-rapid-deployment-card-team

I think that research is in regards to what we think about when we think of your standard child abduction. This was a bit different, as they weren't moved offsite (taken by vehicle for instance). I view this more through the lens of an offender who commits a blitz style attack. We see this a lot with joggers for instance, where they are attacked on a trail and dragged just off it. Those victims tend to be killed very quickly (within minutes).

But there's a hybrid situation going on here, where he takes them to another location and extends the event, forcing the girls to comply to his demands (disrobe), which is likely part of his fantasy. So through that lens I see this going on a longer than typical amount of time based on the immense risk level and nature of the abduction.

 

[Spartygirl]

That’s a pretty poor excuse from the defense imo. I’m sorry, but isn’t it up to the defense to open the video files they want to use to get the date?

You would think so.

They probably didn't even open the video files until today only to discover there are not dates.

Should have done their homework but too busy writing fantasy Franks full of rituals and other nonsense.

They seem to not go through everything (files, discovery, etc) that they receive.
Incompetent lawyers, from what I am reading. JMO

They also put a witness on stand to testify about a 302 Report --
One that he did NOT even write

OOPS.
JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Thank you! You guys are so smart. Do we know where on the MHB that was because there appears to be no one else on the bridge behind them - and it looks like they have covered quite a distance at that point.

The photo was taken approximately where I plotted the point on the MHB. That was at 2:07 according to testimony from Cecil, the examiner of the forensic extraction of the phone.

The photo (actually the still from the video) has BG most of the way across the bridge around 2:13. “Down the Hill” happened around 2:14, and there is movement until 2:18. That portion of land after going down the hill relatively flat, so quick movement isn’t really out of the question.

At 2:25, movement picks back up and ends at 2:32. 2:32 is the last time the phone moves.

The spot I marked as an initial stopping point is solely based on distances and times, there is an arc of areas they could have been in. That just seems most reasonable based on what’s been in testimony.

JMO

 

[minor4th]

View attachment 542471
The photo was taken approximately where I plotted the point on the MHB. That was at 2:07 according to testimony from Cecil, the examiner of the forensic extraction of the phone.

The photo (actually the still from the video) has BG most of the way across the bridge around 2:13. “Down the Hill” happened around 2:14, and there is movement until 2:18. That portion of land after going down the hill relatively flat, so quick movement isn’t really out of the question.

At 2:25, movement picks back up and ends at 2:32. 2:32 is the last time the phone moves.

The spot I marked as an initial stopping point is solely based on distances and times, there is an arc of areas they could have been in. That just seems most reasonable based on what’s been in testimony.

JMO

I guess the bridge is much longer than I imagined.

 

[otto]

This just leads me to more questions. Is it possible Bridge Guy initially approached them from the bottom of the bridge and then doubled back to follow them as they were at the end of the bridge?

There is video of the accused walking up behind Abby and forcing the girls off the South end of the bridge. We haven't seen the entire video, but it was presented earlier in court.

 

[flashy09]

Thank you! You guys are so smart. Do we know where on the MHB that was because there appears to be no one else on the bridge behind them - and it looks like they have covered quite a distance at that point.

I just watched someone on Youtube walk the whole bridge, in probably worse condition than in 2017, with stops in 4 minutes. Granted he walked at a pretty fast clip.
2:07 is an estimated time.

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

"Among other information Cecil was missing is why, during his data extraction from Libby's phone, he did not find a now-infamous photo of Abby crossing the Monon High Bridge taken at an estimated time of 2:07 p.m. on Feb. 13. Libby used Snapchat to take several other photos that Cecil found, but he couldn't locate this one from the cache of saved pictures. Instead, he had to estimate the time the widely circulated photo seen by Libby's friends and family was taken."

 

[steeltowngirl]

These photos always make me so happy when I first see them... then I break down bawling because they should totally still be here. This was all so senseless as we learn more...

(moo)

Libby and Abby should be here.
They likely would have been in college or in budding careers by now.

The public would hardly know of them, as it should be. They would just be living normal, private lives at this point of their lives.

Maybe we would have learned of them as successful adults making the news, as young athletes, or artists, or homemakers. Whatever they wanted to become.

Honestly, we should never have had to learn their names.

Not like this.
Not here.

jmo

 

[minor4th]

There is video of the accused walking up behind Abby and forcing the girls off the South end of the bridge. We haven't seen the entire video, but it was presented earlier in court.

I understand that. I’m just wondering how there can be a photo of Abby at 2:07 with no one behind her and then the video of BG behind them at 2:13 (?). BG could not have sprinted across that bridge to catch up with them.

 

[Vern]

Thank you so much! That is very helpful. Question: Could the three of them have made it to the final location in 10 minutes? That seems unlikely to me, given the terrain and considering it takes 10 minutes to cross the MHB. I hope someone in the trial has actually determined if that’s possible.

Adult male crosses in 4 minutes and that's with a couple of pauses to point things out. He's not running or jogging, but is "walking with a sense of purpose".

10 minutes is for the timid or first timers apparenty.

Begins about 20 seconds in here:

 

[BUF]

Sterrett said he focused the search mostly south and west of the Monon High Bridge. The girls' bodies were ultimately found east of the bridge.

Delphi Girls Murdered | wthr.com

 

[MassGuy]

#NEW: The defense in the #Delphi double murders trial will not be permitted to include Odinism as they present their case.

No third party suspects.

More incoming.

@WISHNews8 #RichardAllen #RichardAllenTrial

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852468149750501728

 

[m00c0w]

I guess the bridge is much longer than I imagined.

Me, too. I didn’t understand how massive it was until I started looking at the times after Cecil’s testimony. Google Maps is also not much help because most of the bridge is obscured. Getting on Google Earth and going back to 2017 yields very clear imagery of the bridge.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I pray to all that is holy and sacred that the Judge and Jury are as outraged as I am about the slaughter of these two beautiful children. Had they lived, they would be 20 and 21 now. I imagine Libby would be studying forensics at Purdue, and I think Abby would be an art major. They would have enjoyed their senior year at high school, gone to prom, and graduated. I can only imagine what beautiful prom pictures they would have had. They would have both likely had a serious boyfriend by now, and maybe even thinking of marriage and kids after college.

But there was no senior year, no prom, no graduation or college for these children. There was no falling in love and dreaming of a white wedding and a future with someone they love. This year, like the rest since their murders, the holiday tables will have empty seats where they should be. The only solace is the little angel on top of the Christmas tree, reminding us where their beautiful souls are. That, and a community who defiantly carried on, and honored the memories of the girls.

Yes, I truly pray that the Judge and the Jury are as outraged as I am. I do know that the alleged Perp (R.A.) is truly sad. Sad that he got CAUGHT. May justice be served, and he can sort out the rest with his Maker.

Think of these sweet girls this year when you see an angel on top of a Christmas tree and say a prayer for their souls, and the families left behind.

Amateur opinion and speculation