Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[rosesfromangels]

I would too at first sight of someone eating their own poo and playing with their willy randomly at my visit!

moo

He’s playing coo coo to get a softer ride.
Won’t work.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[gremlin444]

Question 1--is there a copy online of prior affidavits of Sarah Carbaugh--not from the PCA or the Allen home search warrant?

Question 2--does anyone know when the term "WHITE wash" jeans began popping up in association with her description?

If that isn't being seen until this trial, given the description of the awful acoustics and mic setup in that courtroom (even by media sitting in their reserved area) and seeing the differences in facts that we see in the varying reports coming out of this hearing that seem to be because of trouble hearing (multiple reporters saying "50 feet" and only 1 reporter saying "15 feet"--I am beginning to wonder if what SC said at this trial was "LIGHT wash" jeans.

Bridge Guy's jeans certainly could be described as light wash--especially when compared to the more popular modern trend for jeans to be medium wash to dark wash.

 

[zh0r4]

I’m not a psychiatrist but a licensed one decided he needed to be forcibly given this medication, MOO

My understanding is Dr. Wala is a psychologist not a psychiatrist. This means she cannot prescribe meds bc she is not an M.D. Sometimes a psychologist may work with an M.D./collaborate, but they can’t prescribe medication. Do we know what M.D. was prescribing the medication? I may have missed something but I don’t remember that M.D. testifying? Maybe the prisons have a medical doctor on site?

 

[otto]

I don't even care what they collected. Nothing they did collect and test linked RA to the scene or the kids.

<respectfully snipped>
There is circumstantial DNA evidence of Libby and Abby at the crime scene.

The yellow dot is Abby. She was mortally wounded with the first cut, bled out on the spot, did not put her hands to her neck. She is described as Victim #1 in legal documents.

The red dots are Libby. The first cut was not fatal. She put her hands to her neck. She left a palm print and blood spatter on the tree. Blood dripped onto her face from her neck. Her eyes were moist with tears. She was nearly decapitated. She bled out at point #5. She was dragged to point #6. All based on DNA evidence of Libby and Abby.

There is evidence that the murderer dragged Libby's body once or twice across the crime scene. First, from the blood spatter tree (#4) to where she bled out (#5), then dragged by her arm to the tree (#6). Why isn't there any DNA of a suspect on their bodies?

He dragged Libby by her arm (body position) once or twice. There should be DNA evidence, but there isn't. There must be good reasons that there is no DNA evidence of a suspect on the girl's bodies, since we know they were touched.

 

[zh0r4]

Richard Allen said he didn't have a gun that day and that when he did carry one - it always had one bullet.

Some guns haven't been ruled out (inconclusive) and the gun model he used was never used in any of the tests done.

Also, I think an unspent bullet would be very different to a spent bullet and am not sure why fired bullets were used at all unless unspent ones being ejected and put back in the chamber didn't make the cut.

I have no idea about guns and bullets, but I do wonder about the difference between a fired bullet and unspent one and I also question or wonder about the testing that was performed.

JMO MOO JMT

I have not been able to find a single case where an unspent cartridge was used as a main piece of evidence in a murder trial. But an unspent vs spent cartridge would definitely be different. From my understanding, ballistics generally only uses spent cartridges.

 

[photographer4]

<respectfully snipped>
There is circumstantial DNA evidence of Libby and Abby at the crime scene.

The yellow dot is Abby. She was mortally wounded with the first cut, bled out on the spot, did not put her hands to her neck. She is described as Victim #1 in legal documents.

The red dots are Libby. The first cut was not fatal. She put her hands to her neck. She left a palm print and blood spatter on the tree. Blood dripped onto her face from her neck. Her eyes were moist with tears. She was nearly decapitated. She bled out at point #5. She was dragged to point #6. All based on DNA evidence of Libby and Abby.

There is evidence that the murderer dragged Libby's body once or twice across the crime scene. First, from the blood spatter tree (#4) to where she bled out (#5), then dragged by her arm to the tree (#6). Why isn't there any DNA of a suspect on their bodies?

He dragged Libby by her arm (body position) once or twice. There should be DNA evidence, but there isn't. There must be good reasons that there is no DNA evidence of a suspect on the girl's bodies, since we know they were touched.

View attachment 542506

Sorry accidentally hit post without meaning to on a blank screen.

 

[m00c0w]

Good-- I thought if you are subpoenaed, you have to appear in person.
That's the way it has always been, at least in my state.

I did not hear if he was subpoenaed or not, and if his FBI job takes precedence over that and testifying in court.

I’m also curious if the defense has even submitted a Touhy request, and maybe that also has something to do with it. Doesn’t sound like they were prepared to call the agent to testify until Gootee didn’t perform as expected.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I wish I could find any clarification as to whether the Haldol injections he was given were the immediate action kind or the ones that last 3-4 weeks. Because if he was given the immediate action kind, that can also be given in psychiatric institutions and penal institutions when someone is exhibiting sustained or numerous (and separated only by short periods of time, like every few hours) incidents of violence and aggression.

Well, He wasn't on the Haldol Injections from being locked up, when he went to the Bridge, pointed gun at Libby & Abby, ordered them DTH, across the creek, left one naked and sliced their throats

Then go to DNR guy to say he was there that day.

Lied to his wife about being on the bridge.

Plus seen by witnesses, saw the van, confirmed by van driver and knew details of the CS.

nope-- he wasn't injected with that on FEB 13 2017

He is a perverted, short man syndrome, alcoholic, controlling perv, trying to SA 2 young innocent teenagers who were there to enjoy a beautiful day.

He took away their lives and continued to live his.

 

[MiniMoo]

I have not been able to find a single case where an unspent cartridge was used as a main piece of evidence in a murder trial. But an unspent vs spent cartridge would definitely be different. From my understanding, ballistics generally only uses spent cartridges.

So, this situation is kind of unique.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[oviedo]

<respectfully snipped>
There is circumstantial DNA evidence of Libby and Abby at the crime scene.

The yellow dot is Abby. She was mortally wounded with the first cut, bled out on the spot, did not put her hands to her neck. She is described as Victim #1 in legal documents.

The red dots are Libby. The first cut was not fatal. She put her hands to her neck. She left a palm print and blood spatter on the tree. Blood dripped onto her face from her neck. Her eyes were moist with tears. She was nearly decapitated. She bled out at point #5. She was dragged to point #6. All based on DNA evidence of Libby and Abby.

There is evidence that the murderer dragged Libby's body once or twice across the crime scene. First, from the blood spatter tree (#4) to where she bled out (#5), then dragged by her arm to the tree (#6). Why isn't there any DNA of a suspect on their bodies?

He dragged Libby by her arm (body position) once or twice. There should be DNA evidence, but there isn't. There must be good reasons that there is no DNA evidence of a suspect on the girl's bodies, since we know they were touched.

View attachment 542506

Maybe he wore gloves ? My pharmacy techs wear gloves - he definitely had to touch her hand to move her body

JMO

 

[NoeticSoul]

He’s playing coo coo to get a softer ride.
Won’t work.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Very transparently and obviously to most of us I think. That the Defense did not have him evaluated for being mentally *insane* or both mentally and emotionally incompetent to stand trial.. is beyond me, but for the truth of the fact that he WAS NOT any of those things, and was faking it and they knew that.

My opinion only of course.

 

[photographer4]

Well, He wasn't on the Haldol Injections when he went to the Bridge, pointed gun at Libby & Abby, ordered them DTH, across the creek, left one naked and sliced their throats

Then go to DNR guy to say he was there that day.

Plus seen by witnesses, saw the van, confirmed by van driver and knew details of the CS.

nope-- he wasn't injected with that on FEB 13 2017

He is a perverted, short man syndrome, alcoholic, controlling perv, trying to SA 2 young innocent teenagers who were there to enjoy a beautiful day.

He took away their lives and continued to live his.

How do you know what medications he may or may not have been on on Feb 13, 2017? Have we had evidence to support this assertion? Because if so, I've not yet seen it. Is there a link?

 

[INfisherman]

Let's assume that bridge guy was not seen by any witnesses on the trails heading towards the bridge. How does that play out regarding guilt or innocence?

After a visit with his mom, Richard Allen went to the Monon bridge trail on the afternoon of Feb 13. A woman saw Richard Allen standing on or near the first platform looking at fish. Richard Allen admits that he was there looking at fish. That happened before the girls were abducted, and after the adult female witness returned to her car. That witness saw Libby and Abby walking towards the bridge.

So far:

• an adult female witness places Richard Allen and the murdered girls on or near the Monon bridge at the time of the kidnapping.
• Richard Allen confirms that he was on or near the first platform of Monon bridge at that time looking at his phone and fish
• Libby, Abby, and Richard Allen (by admission, with witness) are on or near the bridge at the time that they are kidnapped.

Does it really matter whether the other witnesses saw bridge guy on the trails heading toward the bridge?

Yes it matters to me, if I am a juror. It helps to confirm the timeline & makes it more logical that he came from the CPS building. The more points that can be plotted out as far as who was where & at what time, the more likely it all lines up.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Question 1--is there a copy online of prior affidavits of Sarah Carbaugh--not from the PCA or the Allen home search warrant?

Question 2--does anyone know when the term "WHITE wash" jeans began popping up in association with her description?

If that isn't being seen until this trial, given the description of the awful acoustics and mike setup in that courtroom (even by media sitting in their reserved area) and seeing the differences in facts that we see in the varying reports coming out of this hearing that seem to be because of trouble hearing (multiple reporters saying "50 feet" and only 1 reporter saying "15 feet"--I am beginning to wonder if what SC said at this trial was "LIGHT wash" jeans.

Bridge Guy's jeans certainly could be described as light wash--especially when compared to the more popular modern trend for jeans to be medium wash to dark wash.

Add the low sun behind as she drove east.

 

[NoeticSoul]

I'm gonna go ahead and have a nice cup of chamomile tea in honor of the positive evolution of this trial so far, the comradery here (even though many differences abound!), TYSM to our WS house attorneys for your valuable input!!, the jurors who seem so dedicated to the truth with such detailed and important questions, the "reporters" that try so hard to report accurately given their limitations, and US... who've been waiting 7 years for this justice for Abby & Libby and family and are SO anxious for the TRUTH, either way.

Sending love to you all this Friday night. I'm still catching up to reading xoxo

 

[detectivewannab]

Do we have any idea of what will happen tomorrow?

 

[otto]

He is diagnosed as having an excessive need to be taken care of by others. He wants to see his wife and to have better accommodations. If he doesn't get what he wants, he'll threaten suicide, eat poop, act up, and potentially threaten others. He confessed, tried to take it back, admitted more details, feigned nuts. I'm thankful that Richard Allen is having a very difficult time in a concrete box with a steel door.

I think RA has difficulty coping with situations where he has no control.

"Jurors in the Delphi double-murder trial heard from a prison psychologist who testified Wednesday that Richard Allen confessed to her multiple times about killing Abigail "Abby" Williams and Liberty "Libby" German while he was on suicide watch at Westville Correctional Facility.
...

Allen was often erratic and went off on tangents, while at times confessing in "an almost matter-of-fact manner." He also seemed less suicidal at times, saying he "could not kill himself because he was too much of a coward," Wala told jurors.
...

Coinciding with the confessions were a series of bizarre behaviors and suicidal thoughts.
...

The bizarre behavior began shortly after Allen received discovery material from his attorneys and it's possible his conduct was in response to what he'd read in those documents ... believes Allen was feigning much of this behavior to get a visit from his wife and to be transferred to another facility.

Allen also showed signs of dependent personality syndrome, a mental health condition that involves an excessive need to be taken care of by others."​

'I killed Abby and Libby': Jurors hear about Richard Allen's confessions, bizarre behavior

Dr. Monica Wala, Richard Allen's therapist at Westville Correctional Facility, testified he confessed many times, while feigning bizarre behavior.

eu.jconline.com

 

[Tealgrove]

Do we have any idea of what will happen tomorrow?

I’m still trying to figure out what happened today!

 

[Myvice]

TIA, does anyone remember where Wala was working after she left the prison?

 

[INfisherman]

That’s what those prison confessions come down to. Do you believe he was of sound mind and they are legitimate? Or do you believe he was not of sound mind? The latter has a caveat though, he could not be of sound mind yet still provide details that were true, in which case it wouldn't matter what his mental health condition was.

Allen saying he did it over and over didn’t do it for me, because I do believe he was in a horrible mental state.

That phone call to his mom was incredibly compelling though, as it read like he was of sound mind (very lucid). Reporters in the courtroom confirmed as much.

Allen saying he skipped lunch with his parents, bought a 6 pack, drank 3, went home and bundled up, hit the trails, encountered the girls, planned to rape them, and killed them, does ring true to me. It is possible the got the part where he covered them with sticks from discovery, but that doesn't move the needle for me.

The confessions to Wala, for me, it was that he kept things in order. He wasn’t just rambling phrases that made no sense. He repeated what he did in a logical fashion. Wala mentioned this as one reason why she suspected he might be faking at times.

JMO