Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[KentuckyMama]

Dbm. Sorry. Im having technical difficulties. Texting and feeding a baby should not be done simultaneously.

 

[otto]

Yes it matters to me, if I am a juror. It helps to confirm the timeline & makes it more logical that he came from the CPS building. The more points that can be plotted out as far as who was where & at what time, the more likely it all lines up.

JMO

The trail witnesses explain Richard Allen's timeline - leaving mom, going home, over-dressing, where he parked, walking near the Freedom Bridge, standing on the Monon bridge, walking towards the South end of the bridge saying "guys, down the hill."

Everyone who saw a man prior to Richard Allen standing on the bridge is secondary.

The woman who saw Richard Allen on the bridge, confirmed by RA, is the one that counts.

 

[gremlin444]

How do you know what medications he may or may not have been on on Feb 13, 2017? Have we had evidence to support this assertion? Because if so, I've not yet seen it. Is there a link?

Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana, is on trial and Day 11 of the trial began with testimony from several witnesses including Steve Mullin, John Galipeau, Ethan Drang, and Michael Clemons.

www.wishtv.com

"Allen came into the prison on Prozac. His dosage was later adjusted."

"

 

[KentuckyMama]

Richard Allen said he didn't have a gun that day and that when he did carry one - it always had one bullet.

Some guns haven't been ruled out (inconclusive) and the gun model he used was never used in any of the tests done.

Also, I think an unspent bullet would be very different to a spent bullet and am not sure why fired bullets were used at all unless unspent ones being ejected and put back in the chamber didn't make the cut.

I have no idea about guns and bullets, but I do wonder about the difference between a fired bullet and unspent one and I also question or wonder about the testing that was performed.

JMO MOO JMT

I thought he said he always kept one bullet chambered, not that he only had one bullet. It is illogical to carry a gun regularly with only one bullet in it. Maybe I'm remembering wrong. I will go hunting.

 

[Vern]

I have not been able to find a single case where an unspent cartridge was used as a main piece of evidence in a murder trial. But an unspent vs spent cartridge would definitely be different. From my understanding, ballistics generally only uses spent cartridges.

Diane Downs

Elizabeth Diane Downs, Petitioner-appellant, v. Sonia Hoyt, Respondent-appellee, 232 F.3d 1031 (9th Cir. 2000)

Elizabeth Diane Downs, Petitioner-appellant, v. Sonia Hoyt, Respondent-appellee, 232 F.3d 1031 (9th Cir. 2000) case opinion from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

law.justia.com

 

[iamshadow21]

I’m still shocked that there was no DNA. One would think that in the fray that ensued during the murder of Libby, a hair, from the murderer, at the very least, would have been found.

Go figure.

Despite what shows like CSI would have us believe, not every passing contact - or even firm contact - leaves enough DNA to be detected or collected.

If there had been a violent sexual assault, then there would be far more chance of that kind of transfer.

But a lot of this attack, the killer seemed to have used the gun to control the girls, which required no physical contact. If they undressed themselves, and Abby redressed herself, then there's no contact there, either.

It may be that the only time he actually touched them was when he was killing them. And if he was wearing gloves, long sleeves, long pants, wasn't perspiring heavily, didn't cut himself, had his hair tucked under a tightly fitting hat... He's not dressed and sterile for surgery, but just by dressing that way and using the gun for control, he's reduced his chance of transfer greatly over someone who commits a crime where he is in close contact with his victim throughout.

An example - you might be on a crowded train or bus, but you're not going to end up with DNA from every person you brushed up against to get out at your stop. But if you're at a concert, jammed into the standing area, pressed closely against half a dozen people next to you, all of you dancing, sweating, singing... it'd be strange if you didn't have traces of all six people afterwards.

Yes, you can get DNA on you from a casual brief touch. But sustained heavy contact is far more likely to transfer enough to detect.

The killer in this case seemed to minimise his contact, but he also got lucky. It happens.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana, is on trial and Day 11 of the trial began with testimony from several witnesses including Steve Mullin, John Galipeau, Ethan Drang, and Michael Clemons.

www.wishtv.com

"Allen came into the prison on Prozac. His dosage was later adjusted."

"

Thanks. This tells me about his medication in 2022, not on Feb 13, 2017 which is what I was asking about.

 

[MiniMoo]

I thought he said he always kept one bullet chambered, not that he only had one bullet. It is illogical to carry a gun regularly with only one bullet in it. Maybe I'm remembering wrong. I will go hunting.

it always had one bullet.
it = gun

If you find it let me know. Thanks! Be good to know as I thought one.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Dbm. Sorry. Im having technical difficulties. Texting and feeding a baby should not be done simultaneously.

You're totally excused mama! xox

 

[Myvice]

I thought I heard (maybe Hidden True Crime ?) that Dr Wala continues to be employed by Wexford Health... their healthcare staff is subcontracted to work in correctional institutions. However, she is no longer allowed to see/treat/evaluate inmates at the Westville prison. That was my understanding but I have not attempted to verify this.

jmo

Thank you Fred&Edna. I wondered whatever resulted from that. Apparently, her behavior didn't amount to enough to have her license taken.

 

[INfisherman]

The murderer touched their bodies, but left no DNA.
Agreed. Surgical gloves.
That means: pre-meditated

He wore gloves when he loaded his weapon, I’m sure. RA, IMO, has minimized many things across many different conversations. He said he cares what people think about him, so he has done everything he can to avoid being caught. He claims the van interrupted him so he had to kill the girls. No, he planned to kill the girls beforehand & that’s why both the gun & box cutter/edged weapon were in his possession. Again, minimizing so he doesn’t look as evil.

We may never know the full story of that day, before, during & after the murders. I do feel RA acted alone in Delphi. I also think he had contact with other people who could have led/introduced RA to AW & LG indirectly. I doubt that link will ever be made either, as the evidence has probably already been destroyed.

JMO

 

[AugustWest]

I’m kind of surprised by the reactions.
There’s no DNA, no digital evidence.
All is not lost for those who believe RA is innocent.

Odinist-inspired murder would have been a stretch to sell to a jury, and may have had the opposite effect from what defense was seeking.

jmo

I didn't reply to this earlier, but I will now.

This issue isn't about RA for me. At all. This isn't about his guilt or innocence. I don't care if the defense uses one theory or another. I'm not RA's lawyer so it doesn't matter anyway.

What I do care about is the Constitution. And following the rule of law. One of those rules of law the Constitution is the Sixth Amendment:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

To have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor. That isn't being granted in this instance. It's violative of the rights of every American citizen. Every one of them. I'd fight just as hard for you, or any other person here, to guarantee them the same.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt6-5-4/ALDE_00013333/#:~:text=The%20Sixth%20Amendment%20guarantees%20a,obtaining%20witnesses%20in%20his%20favor.

 

[Spartygirl]

Dbm. Sorry. Im having technical difficulties. Texting and feeding a baby should not be done simultaneously.

The struggle is real, KM
No worries.

 

[gremlin444]

Thanks. This tells me about his medication in 2022, not on Feb 13, 2017 which is what I was asking about.

(editing out in my reply what upon re-reading sounded snarky to me...serves me right for replying while distracted).

Because that's the only bit of information that has been given to the public so that's all we can go by. They wouldn't have even though to ask "what meds are you on" when he called in his self-tip in 2017.

I feel pretty confident he wasn't on monthly injections of Haldol in 2017 (which is what I think the other person misinterpreted me as thinking) because of two things (IMO, MOO, IMHO):

1) he would have been entering IDOC with a diagnosis of schizophrenia or ongoing significant psychosis
2) you can't be (IMHO, MOO) regularly drinking alcohol of any significant amount on monthly Haldol because alcohol and that level of Haldol is a dangerous combination.

 

[Spartygirl]

Thank you Fred&Edna. I wondered whatever resulted from that. Apparently, her behavior didn't amount to enough to have her license taken.

DBM

 

[steeltowngirl]

I didn't reply to this earlier, but I will now.

This issue isn't about RA for me. At all. This isn't about his guilt or innocence. I don't care if the defense uses one theory or another. I'm not RA's lawyer so it doesn't matter anyway.

What I do care about is the Constitution. And following the rule of law. One of those rules of law the Constitution is the Sixth Amendment:

To have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor. That isn't being granted in this instance. It's violative of the rights of every American citizen. Every one of them. I'd fight just as hard for you, or any other person here, to guarantee them the same.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt6-5-4/ALDE_00013333/#:~:text=The%20Sixth%20Amendment%20guarantees%20a,obtaining%20witnesses%20in%20his%20favor.

Were Odinists going to witness in his favor?

Of course I’m not a lawyer, but I would be looking for witnesses to testify that I wasn’t at the place and time of the crime. They would be in my favor.

ETA: I could understand if one of the Odinists witnessed the murders. Of course he’d be brought to testify.

 

[MassGuy]

Richard Allen said he didn't have a gun that day and that when he did carry one - it always had one bullet.

Some guns haven't been ruled out (inconclusive) and the gun model he used was never used in any of the tests done.

Also, I think an unspent bullet would be very different to a spent bullet and am not sure why fired bullets were used at all unless unspent ones being ejected and put back in the chamber didn't make the cut.

I have no idea about guns and bullets, but I do wonder about the difference between a fired bullet and unspent one and I also question or wonder about the testing that was performed.

JMO MOO JMT

They did test other 40 caliber handguns, to include an Sig owned by BW. His Sig came up as inconclusive, while RA’s Sig was a match.

The examiner testified that the protocols called for using fired casings for comparison, as they leave more discernible marks. Whether a round is manually ejected or a fired, the extractor and ejector still make contact with the casing, which allows for comparison.

The defense will be calling their own expert to cast doubt on this I’m sure.

 

[acutename]

TIA, does anyone remember where Wala was working after she left the prison?

according to this article,she does not specify... but not at the IDOC:

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 11 | Prison psychologist says Allen made multiple confessions

Allen's former prison psychologist said she advised Allen not to talk about the case but at some point, began receiving confessions from Allen regarding the killings.

www.wrtv.com

 

[gremlin444]

it always had one bullet.
it = gun

If you find it let me know. Thanks! Be good to know as I thought one.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 8 | Lead investigator on interrogation; Defense says Allen was never read his rights

Richard Allen denied any involvement during police interrogation says lead investigator in trial's eighth day.

www.wrtv.com

"When Allen was asked how he normally carried a gun, he responded he used a side holster. Allen told Holeman he usually carried his pistol with one round in his chamber."

One round in the chamber means the bullet is now loaded and the gun is able to be shot immediately without needing to rack it. The rest of the bullets are down in the magazine.

 

[fred&edna]

Thank you Fred&Edna. I wondered whatever resulted from that. Apparently, her behavior didn't amount to enough to have her license taken.

I assume she didn't lose her license. I'm unsure as to her current position within the company.

And remember, it's hearsay on my part

jmo