Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[NoeticSoul]

I’m still trying to figure out what happened today!

A whole-lotta nothin'?

 

[steeltowngirl]

How do you know what medications he may or may not have been on on Feb 13, 2017? Have we had evidence to support this assertion? Because if so, I've not yet seen it. Is there a link?

I don’t have information for 2/13/17, but RA came into the prison on Prozac, so potentially had been on antidepressants for some time. Haldol is a different class of meds - an anti-psychotic.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana, is on trial and Day 11 of the trial began with testimony from several witnesses including Steve Mullin, John Galipeau, Ethan Drang, and Michael Clemons.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Megnut]

I was discussing this case with a friend today who was adamant that RA was not BG. I wanted to check in and see where they were at after two days of what is in my opinion damning evidence.

They couldn't refute any of it...but insisted it still didn't mean that RA was BG. At this point I just suspect that they've invested too much in the RA is not BG narrative to admit the (IMO) truth. I full believe (again, JMO) that we are beyond reasonable doubt now.

I just don't see how the defense mounts any defense. I think we are at the 'pound the table' stage of this trial.

MOO

Oh, we're there.

They pounded the table with a subpoena, a subpoena for a witness who was on the stand whom they could continue to cross exam, no subpoena required.

It was dramatic though. Very table poundy.

JMO

 

[NoeticSoul]

Oh, we're there.

They sounded the table with a subpoena, a subpoena for a witness who was on the stand whom they could continue to cross exam, no subpoena required.

It was dramatic though. Very table poundy.

JMO

Tantrums for naught.. moo

 

[Gigiky]

Haldol. Horrible drug. Awful side affects!

 

[Megnut]

Do we have any idea of what will happen tomorrow?

Does the Defense?

I think they need more time.

(jmo)

 

[Notthisshipsister]

<respectfully snipped>
There is circumstantial DNA evidence of Libby and Abby at the crime scene.

The yellow dot is Abby. She was mortally wounded with the first cut, bled out on the spot, did not put her hands to her neck. She is described as Victim #1 in legal documents.

The red dots are Libby. The first cut was not fatal. She put her hands to her neck. She left a palm print and blood spatter on the tree. Blood dripped onto her face from her neck. Her eyes were moist with tears. She was nearly decapitated. She bled out at point #5. She was dragged to point #6. All based on DNA evidence of Libby and Abby.

There is evidence that the murderer dragged Libby's body once or twice across the crime scene. First, from the blood spatter tree (#4) to where she bled out (#5), then dragged by her arm to the tree (#6). Why isn't there any DNA of a suspect on their bodies?

He dragged Libby by her arm (body position) once or twice. There should be DNA evidence, but there isn't. There must be good reasons that there is no DNA evidence of a suspect on the girl's bodies, since we know they were touched.

View attachment 542506

BG had a hat on. Could he have used the hat as a makeshift "glove", knowing that his bare hand might leave DNA behind? Or perhaps he had a bandanna or something in his pocket-- even actual gloves?

 

[NoeticSoul]

Does the Defense?

I think they need more time.

(jmo)

That hourglass ran out years ago.

 

[otto]

Question: Was that the witness that saw someone young with a beautiful face?

I don't recall. I do think that eye witness testimony identifying a man, who might be "bridge guy", heading towards the bridge might be irrelevant. That testimony is helpful in terms of demonstrating Richard Allen's timeline and connecting to Libby's video, but it's not the key piece of evidence imho.

The woman who saw Richard Allen on the bridge places him on the bridge at the time that the girls walked towards the bridge. Richard Allen agrees that he was there, on the bridge, looking at a fish. He was also checking the stock market ticker. Minutes later the girls walk past the witness, heading towards the bridge ... where Richard Allen was last seen.

Could the video be Richard Allen? It's difficult to estimate sock height versus boots with lifts and hat height. If the defence provided a video of the accused purposefully walking across the bridge and it did not look like bridge guy, that would be enough for me to believe that he is not guilty.

 

[MassGuy]

BG had a hat on. Could he have used the hat as a makeshift "glove", knowing that his bare hand might leave DNA behind? Or perhaps he had a bandanna or something in his pocket-- even actual gloves?

I think he had gloves, but even that wouldn’t be necessary to not leave behind (outdoor crime scene and all).

If he thought to bring a gun and a box cutter, and clothing to conceal his identity (hat, maybe even a face covering), then it stands to reason he did bring gloves as well.

 

[otto]

I have not been able to find a single case where an unspent cartridge was used as a main piece of evidence in a murder trial. But an unspent vs spent cartridge would definitely be different. From my understanding, ballistics generally only uses spent cartridges.

It strikes me as an interesting mix of direct and circumstantial evidence.

 

[Inthedetails]

The confessions to Wala, for me, it was that he kept things in order. He wasn’t just rambling phrases that made no sense. He repeated what he did in a logical fashion. Wala mentioned this as one reason why she suspected he might be faking at times.

JMO

Good point.

jmo

 

[BUF]

According to the WTHR debrief, Brad Webber is expected back on the stand Monday

 

[otto]

Maybe he wore gloves ? My pharmacy techs wear gloves - he definitely had to touch her hand to move her body

JMO

The murderer touched their bodies, but left no DNA.
Agreed. Surgical gloves.
That means: pre-meditated

 

[Tealgrove]

I think he had gloves, but even that wouldn’t be necessary to not leave behind (outdoor crime scene and all).

If he thought to bring a gun and a box cutter, and clothing to conceal his identity (hat, maybe even a face covering), then it stands to reason he did bring gloves as well.

I’m still shocked that there was no DNA. One would think that in the fray that ensued during the murder of Libby, a hair, from the murderer, at the very least, would have been found.

Go figure.

 

[Spartygirl]

Does the Defense?

I think they need more time.

(jmo)

LMAO
Oh yeah.. they have been ready for trial ----NOT

They still aren't by what we saw today


But.. I thought they were ready in March 2023 ??
then got pushed out again, and again and again.

The hearing also pushed the March 20 trial date further into 2023.

Delphi murder suspect's new trial date will be set this summer

Judge Frances Gull — with agreement from the attorneys — vacated Richard Allen's March 20 trial date.

www.jconline.com

 

[NoeticSoul]

I'll be so glad (joyous) when this obviousness is over and a guilty verdict--throw away the key-- graces our (US) Thanksgiving month in honor of the best friends and kindred spirits that are Abby & Libby.

js, moo, and all that stuff

 

[gremlin444]

Well, He wasn't on the Haldol Injections from being locked up, when he went to the Bridge, pointed gun at Libby & Abby, ordered them DTH, across the creek, left one naked and sliced their throats

I think you are misreading my point.

My reason for wanting to know which of the two kinds of injectable Haldol he was given is because each kind tends to be given for different reasons.

I see a lot of people assuming the injection was given for ongoing (not episodic or situational) psychosis. And it could have been, but moreso if all the injections he was given were the long term kind that last 3-4 weeks.

If he was given only the immediate release injections, that lends itself far more to being given to try to immediately subdue outbursts of aggression or violence.

My wondering has nothing to do with his behaviors before jail. I'm wondering because it could give some insight into the psych team's thoughts as to his mental state and approaches during the time of the confessions and increased acting out.

I think if you take a second and look back through any of my old posts from the last few days, I think you'll get a general impression of my view of things.

 

[MassGuy]

I’m still shocked that there was no DNA. One would think that in the fray that ensued during the murder of Libby, a hair, from the murderer, at the very least, would have been found.

Go figure.

The best bet would have been if he had used a knife, as that would have increased the chances of him cutting himself. A box cutter was the perfect weapon to avoid that I think.

Had this occurred indoors I’m sure they would have found something. As we know, they do have hairs, but who knows if they are from RA or some random other person.

There are new techniques that can obtain touch DNA from dead bodies, but it requires medical examiner’s to follow certain procedures. No way would those have been done here, unfortunately.

https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/body-swab-dna-collection-in-death-investigations

 

[fred&edna]

TIA, does anyone remember where Wala was working after she left the prison?

I thought I heard (maybe Hidden True Crime ?) that Dr Wala continues to be employed by Wexford Health... their healthcare staff is subcontracted to work in correctional institutions. However, she is no longer allowed to see/treat/evaluate inmates at the Westville prison. That was my understanding but I have not attempted to verify this.

jmo

ETA: Link. This should start where she's talking about the beginning of the cross-examination of Dr W. You only need listen to 2-3 minutes to hear the info I mentioned above.