Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[INfisherman]

Does the Defense?

I think they need more time.

(jmo)

Please please please please let it be BDI (Bigfoot did it).

 

[MiniMoo]

They did test other 40 caliber handguns, to include an Sig owned by BW. His Sig came up as inconclusive, while RA’s Sig was a match.

The examiner testified that the protocols called for using fired casings for comparison, as they leave more discernible marks. Whether a round is manually ejected or a fired, the extractor and ejector still make contact with the casing, which allows for comparison.

The defense will be calling their own expert to cast doubt on this I’m sure.

Better be a bullet expert is all I will say and not someone that isn't an expert.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Spartygirl]

Please please please please let it be BDI (Bigfoot did it).

Nope--it was the aliens
JMO

 

[minor4th]

<modsnip>

RA himself Puts himself there.

then was seen by other witnesses, in the same spots he said where he saw them.

Maybe, also maybe not.

 

[AugustWest]

Were Odinists going to witness in his favor?

Of course I’m not a lawyer, but I would be looking for witnesses to testify that I wasn’t at the place and time of the crime. They would be in my favor.

ETA: I could understand if one of the Odinists witnessed the murders. Of course he’d be brought to testify.

<modsnip> The concept of obtaining witnesses in one's favor goes way beyond being able to call one witness or another.

ETA: don't think about Odinists, don't think about RA, just the Amendment.
ETA2: @steeltowngirl I didn't mean to sound like I am barking commands at you. I'm not, I just want to help you understand the 6th.

 

[MassGuy]

Better be a bullet expert is all I will say and not someone that isn't an expert.

JMO MOO JMT

I don’t remember this person’s name but they are an expert. Unlike that metallurgist they also wanted to call.

 

[ClearAhead]

But he wasn't dressed like BG. In all this testimony he has never said he was wearing a Blue jacket.
We've seen 3 different versions of what he thought he was wearing but none of those were Blue.
MOO

Oct 13th interview?

Delphi murders: Suspect's confessions, denials in spotlight during trial's second week

Richard Allen repeatedly denied involvement in the 2017 killing of Abigail Williams and Liberty German before he repeatedly confessed.

www.nbcnews.com

In the interview, Allen — then a CVS clerk — provided an account of what he’d done that Feb. 13. He described the outfit he’d worn that day — jeans and a blue Carhartt jacket — and said that after seeing his mother, he went for a walk at Monon High Bridge Trail around noon.

 

[otto]

I assume she didn't lose her license. I'm unsure as to her current position within the company.

And remember, it's hearsay on my part

jmo

I assumed that a woman of such esteem as Dr. Monica Wala would have some sort of online bio, publications. I couldn't find anything. I'm curious about her phd area of research specialization and how that connects with stating that Richard Allen is "selfless" regarding his wife.

My laymen opinion is manipulative with threats of suicide while demanding that his wife and mother still love him after they understand that he murdered the girls.

 

[Rosegold68]

How long is this trial supposed to last? Will RA be cross examined at any point?

I’m a bit surprised there’s ’nothing much’ evidence wise, I really thought there would be more… Hope it’s enough for a conviction and really hope there’s something to come which clears up all the doubt. It’s looking so wishy washy so far…to me anyway, jmo.

 

[INfisherman]

Better be a bullet expert is all I will say and not someone that isn't an expert.

JMO MOO JMT

I honestly feel at some point their argument is going to go way over most jury members heads. Not that I’m a mental giant but I was having a difficult time following the reasoning behind all the doubts around ballistics evidence.

JMO

ETA It wasn’t the state’s ballistics expert’s testimony that I found confusing, it was the claims how her methods were questionable & didn’t omit other guns.

 

[Spartygirl]

He is diagnosed as having an excessive need to be taken care of by others. He wants to see his wife and to have better accommodations. If he doesn't get what he wants, he'll threaten suicide, eat poop, act up, and potentially threaten others. He confessed, tried to take it back, admitted more details, feigned nuts. I'm thankful that Richard Allen is having a very difficult time in a concrete box with a steel door.

I think RA has difficulty coping with situations where he has no control.

"Jurors in the Delphi double-murder trial heard from a prison psychologist who testified Wednesday that Richard Allen confessed to her multiple times about killing Abigail "Abby" Williams and Liberty "Libby" German while he was on suicide watch at Westville Correctional Facility.​

...​

​

Allen was often erratic and went off on tangents, while at times confessing in "an almost matter-of-fact manner." He also seemed less suicidal at times, saying he "could not kill himself because he was too much of a coward," Wala told jurors.​

...​

​

Coinciding with the confessions were a series of bizarre behaviors and suicidal thoughts.​

...​

​

The bizarre behavior began shortly after Allen received discovery material from his attorneys and it's possible his conduct was in response to what he'd read in those documents ... believes Allen was feigning much of this behavior to get a visit from his wife and to be transferred to another facility.​

​

Allen also showed signs of dependent personality syndrome, a mental health condition that involves an excessive need to be taken care of by others."​

'I killed Abby and Libby': Jurors hear about Richard Allen's confessions, bizarre behavior

Dr. Monica Wala, Richard Allen's therapist at Westville Correctional Facility, testified he confessed many times, while feigning bizarre behavior.

eu.jconline.com

yeppers
Insecure short man syndrome, pervert
Will you still love me ??
even though I murdered 2 innocent young girls

Mommy, wifey-- will you still love me ???
Even though I did this Horrific thing of killing 2 innocent children ???

It's like he wanted their approval.
Just UGH

 

[otto]

How long is this trial supposed to last? Will RA be cross examined at any point?

I’m a bit surprised there’s ’nothing much’ evidence wise, I really thought there would be more… Hope it’s enough for a conviction and really hope there’s something to come which clears up all the doubt. It’s looking so wishy washy so far…to me anyway, jmo.

Highly unlikely that Richard Allen will take the stand. He has tried to backdoor testimony about harsh living conditions contributing to abnormal behaviour, false confessions, and suicide threats.

Direct plus circumstantial evidence tell a good story. It's rare that we have both.

 

[minor4th]

Does it matter? Libby, Abby, and Richard Allen (by admission, with witness) are on, or near, the bridge at the time that the girls are kidnapped. This is direct evidence. Eliminate the witnesses who testified to seeing a man (bridge guy or Richard Allen) heading to the bridge that day. They aren't relevant.

We're left with:

• an adult female witness placed Richard Allen on the first platform of Monon bridge
• Richard Allen confirmed that he was on or near the first platform of Monon bridge at that time looking at his phone and fish
• the adult female witness said that Libby and Abby walked past in the opposite direction, towards the bridge, as she walked to her car
• this places Richard Allen and the murdered girls on or near the Monon bridge at the time of the kidnappings

Does it really matter whether the other witnesses saw bridge guy on the trails heading toward the bridge?

Not so fast.

• The adult female witness did not say she saw Richard Allen at the first platform of the MHB.
• So she saw Libby and Abby. This is not disputed.
• This does not place Richard Allen and the girls on the MHB at the same time, shortly before the kidnappings.

I personally do not think any of the eyewitnesses are so important because it can’t be established who they saw.

 

[MiniMoo]

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 8 | Lead investigator on interrogation; Defense says Allen was never read his rights

Richard Allen denied any involvement during police interrogation says lead investigator in trial's eighth day.

www.wrtv.com

"When Allen was asked how he normally carried a gun, he responded he used a side holster. Allen told Holeman he usually carried his pistol with one round in his chamber."

One round in the chamber means the bullet is now loaded and the gun is able to be shot immediately without needing to rack it. The rest of the bullets are down in the magazine.

Question: Do a lot of people carry guns around like that? Like one bullet all set to go.

On the BG video isn't there a sound made like a gun - just off the top of my head. For all we know if there was a sound - it could be anything, but if it was a gun I'm sure a person that uses one a lot would know that sound blindfolded.

I'm sure there are some on here that know what a gun sounds like at every point - I most definitely don't.

If say a gun was thought to be heard in the background of Libby's video would that be a gun that is already loaded or not?

Is it something easy to tell or not.


JMO MOO JMT

 

[acutename]

I assume she didn't lose her license. I'm unsure as to her current position within the company.
is
And remember, it's hearsay on my part

jmo

In the article I quoted above, in x-exam she is asked about it and says "it is a gray area" and that Westville (or the IDOC?) is "investigating"

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 11 | Prison psychologist says Allen made multiple confessions

Allen's former prison psychologist said she advised Allen not to talk about the case but at some point, began receiving confessions from Allen regarding the killings.

www.wrtv.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

<modsnip> The concept of obtaining witnesses in one's favor goes way beyond being able to call one witness or another.

ETA: don't think about Odinists, don't think about RA, just the Amendment.

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped> ... there’s an example about Aaron Burr. It’s weighty stuff.

FG denied Odinism and other suspects. I am trying to understand specifically how that disallows a witness in one’s favor. If you mean SODDI, I get that. Clearly, if defense says he didn’t do it, someone else did. The jury understands that. Defense wants to present another part of the investigation, one that didn’t provide evidence to bring charges against others.

I think you are indicating that Gull is presiding over a trial and making rulings in a manner that are unconstitutional.

I will have to respect your opinion as an attorney, take a step back, and read some more.

 

[minor4th]

They’re a poor defense team? It could be multiple reasons, I’m not a part of the team I can only speculate and I’ve speculated previously they’re not doing a good job for RA, MOO

This is a top-notch defense team, especially as public defenders.

 

[jepop]

Were Odinists going to witness in his favor?

Of course I’m not a lawyer, but I would be looking for witnesses to testify that I wasn’t at the place and time of the crime. They would be in my favor.

ETA: I could understand if one of the Odinists witnessed the murders. Of course he’d be brought to testify.

Idk @steeltowngirl, but you appear to have a valid point, on some level at least. Jmo based on the link provided.

From link provided

"...addition, a defendant cannot establish a violation of his constitutional right to compulsory process merely by showing that deportation of potential witnesses deprived him of their testimony; rather [h]e must at least make some plausible showing of how their testimony would have been both material and favorable to his defense."
(my emphasis).

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt6-5-4/ALDE_00013333/#:~:text=The%20Sixth%20Amendment%20guarantees%20a,obtaining%20witnesses%20in%20his%20favor.

 

[MassGuy]

Question: Do a lot of people carry guns around like that? Like one bullet all set to go.

On the BG video isn't there a sound made like a gun - just off the top of my head. For all we know if there was a sound - it could be anything, but if it was a gun I'm sure a person that uses one a lot would know that sound blindfolded.

I'm sure there are some on here that know what a gun sounds like at every point - I most definitely don't.

If say a gun was thought to be heard in the background of Libby's video would that be a gun that is already loaded or not?

Is it something easy to tell or not.


JMO MOO JMT

All police officers do, and many people who carry guns for protection do as well. If you have a split second to act, you don't want to have to rack the gun in order to be able to fire.

We haven't heard the audio obviously, but even if we had, it sounds like it's open to interpretation. People in the courtroom have said they thought they heard a slide being racked around the "down the hill" timeframe, but others heard no such thing.

Personally, I don't believe he did rack the slide there. At that point the threat of a gun would be enough, and racking it for intimidation would have been unnecessary. When he did ultimately rack the gun at the murder scene, I believe it's probable that the girls weren't complying with a demand, perhaps an order to undress or something.

From the sound alone it isn't possible to tell if the gun already has a round in the chamber, unless you're able to hear that cartridge hit the ground. That almost certainly would not be the case here, considering the sound of the gun being racked is in dispute.

 

[INfisherman]

Question: Do a lot of people carry guns around like that? Like one bullet all set to go.

On the BG video isn't there a sound made like a gun - just off the top of my head. For all we know if there was a sound - it could be anything, but if it was a gun I'm sure a person that uses one a lot would know that sound blindfolded.

I'm sure there are some on here that know what a gun sounds like at every point - I most definitely don't.

If say a gun was thought to be heard in the background of Libby's video would that be a gun that is already loaded or not?

Is it something easy to tell or not.


JMO MOO JMT

First, unless I’m hearing the full version, cleaned up (audio), I’m not going to speculate on what can or cannot be heard.

Whether a round is in the chamber or not, the slide can be racked. If one carries a gun with a round in the chamber in hopes of committing a murder & wishes to leave as little evidence behind, then I’d say racking the slide is making a pretty big mistake. It’s one more casing or round with which the perp must be concerned.

Yes, some carry a gun locked & loaded, so to speak.

JMO

ETA locked & loaded response