Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[steeltowngirl]

Just thought of a concern I would have with defense introducing Odinism. A juror might think they are being presented with an either/or choice. State says RA, Defense says Odinists. If one or more jurors doesn’t find the Odinist theory plausible, they could default to “then it must be RA.” He’s guilty.

Minus the Odinism, it’s RA or the unknown killer. Maybe a serial killer, who knows? Could be anyone, up to the juror’s imagination. Therefore, plausibly RA could be seen as not guilty and the juror didn’t have to “choose” a faulty alternate suspect. They could then confidently vote for a not guilty verdict.

jmo

 

[zh0r4]

Highly unlikely that Richard Allen will take the stand. He has tried to backdoor testimony about harsh living conditions contributing to abnormal behaviour, false confessions, and suicide threats.

Direct plus circumstantial evidence tell a good story. It's rare that we have both.

“He has tried to backdoor testimony about harsh living conditions contributing to abnormal behaviour, false confessions, and suicide threats.”

Can you explain this to me like I’m 5? TIA

 

[INfisherman]

Just thought of a concern I would have with defense introducing Odinism. A juror might think they are being presented with an either/or choice. State says RA, Defense says Odinists. If one or more jurors doesn’t find the Odinist theory plausible, they could default to “then it must be RA.” He’s guilty.

Minus the Odinism, it’s RA or the unknown killer. Maybe a serial killer, who knows? Could be anyone, up to the juror’s imagination. Therefore, plausibly RA could be seen as not guilty and the juror didn’t have to “choose” a faulty alternate suspect. They could then confidently vote for a not guilty verdict.

jmo

I would hope they would ask the judge for clarity if that occurred, if allowed.

JMO

ETA if the jury took things as a choice.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Did Mullin slip out LE thought multiple people were involved that day. How interesting. MOO.

Per Andrea Burkhart YT.

<modsnip>
LE is allowed to throw around different ideas early in an investigation.

That’s how I see it

 

[katydid23]

About that young guy: it's very possible for him to have hung out near the south end of the bridge or even under it and no one would have seen him. MOO

He hung out there for 7 or 8 hours ands no one else ever saw him?

 

[AugustWest]

It sounds like a jury should rule on evidence that is admissible. Is the issue that the judge ruled the wild-goose-chase theory inadmissible before it reached the jury ... so it denies Richard Allen the right to present to jury regardless of Judge's decision?

What am I missing?

Yes, that is precisely the issue. The judge (a government actor) decided that a theory wasn't suitable for a jury to consider. The 6th amendment, like all amendments, was written to limit the power of the government to make decisions about what are wild-goose chase theories and what aren't wild goose-chase theories. Those are things people (juries) should consider, not our government for us.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I would hope they would ask the judge for clarity if that occurred, if allowed.

JMO

Yes, and if I’m the juror, I’m asking my jury mates to ignore the Odinist theory if they think it’s bunk. Just look at the evidence against RA and that’s it. He, and he alone, is on trial. You can think the Odinist theory stinks and still find RA not guilty.

jmo

 

[IzzyBlanche]

So RA wasn't BG but he never saw BG although he was near the bridge around the same time?

And RA didn't see Abby and Libby either?

 

[INfisherman]

He hung out there for 7 or 8 hours ands no one else ever saw him?

Possibly the hide & seek world champion?

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Still doesn't make the one man RA... mooo.

I think many people believe it does make RA the one on the video. Apparently his voice on his confession video sounds exactly like the voice saying 'Guys, down the hill.' IF the jury heard that similarity too, the D will be in big trouble.

 

[INfisherman]

Yes, and if I’m the juror, I’m asking my jury mates to ignore the Odinist theory if they think it’s bunk. Just look at the evidence against RA and that’s it. He, and he alone, is on trial. You can think the Odinist theory stinks and still find RA not guilty.

jmo

Yes you can.

I think you know I’m not a supporter of the Odinism claims. With that said, and regardless of JG’s ruling concerning nexus, I think that’s where the legal eagles here feel there might be something questionable occurring. No lawyer here (NOT using THAT acronym) but I think that’s where they’re going with this. It’s just a matter of keeping JG in check, nothing more. Maybe that goes somewhere, maybe it doesn’t. JG may not wish to deal with it & let the appeals court handle it, right, wrong or indifferent. If RA is found NG, then no harm really (until the next RA comes along). If he’s guilty we might have more with which to deal at a later time during appeals.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

There was evidence ... that they were elsewhere. Thus, denied.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why the Defense did not concentrate on KAK and possibly his father too. That floors me.

I figured maybe defense didn’t want to open the door to KAK, if RA was lying about being solo. Then they put him on the witness list. Scrapped my theory. Unless they were playing chess. Make the state think they were ok to open the door, with no intention of actually calling him.

jmo

 

[otto]

She turned around and walked to Freedom Bridge and then back to her car.

I thought she parked near Mears Entrance with 4 parking stalls at the trail head. Richard Allen was seen walking near the Freedom Bridge.
Image credit: upthread

 

[MiniMoo]

Just thought of a concern I would have with defense introducing Odinism. A juror might think they are being presented with an either/or choice. State says RA, Defense says Odinists. If one or more jurors doesn’t find the Odinist theory plausible, they could default to “then it must be RA.” He’s guilty.

Minus the Odinism, it’s RA or the unknown killer. Maybe a serial killer, who knows? Could be anyone, up to the juror’s imagination. Therefore, plausibly RA could be seen as not guilty and the juror didn’t have to “choose” a faulty alternate suspect. They could then confidently vote for a not guilty verdict.

jmo

I don't think I'd agree with Odinism being brought in, but am not opposed to the idea of this third party angle or argument as I think there is something to it with different parties being a part of the investigation especially as some were POIs or have confessed to the crime themselves.

I feel there is a Nexus.

Definitely not Odinism though.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[photographer4]

Can you imagine, as a juror, having to live with failing to convict a person of such an awful, heinous, senseless crime after hearing him confess it so many times, in so many ways, to so many people?

I can imagine how they might feel once the trial is over when they find out all the things that we know that they aren’t privy to, and all the issues with the case legally to date. Moo.

 

[INfisherman]

I figured maybe defense didn’t want to open the door to KAK, if RA was lying about being solo. Then they put him on the witness list. Scrapped my theory. Unless they were playing chess. Make the state think they were ok to open the door, with no intention of actually calling him.

jmo

Vido, in his interview with KK at Grissom, knew KK lied about him & his dad being in Delphi. Vido claimed LE knew he wasn’t there the day of the murders. They were trying to figure out why KK said that along with why KK deleted data from some of his devices that was around the same timeframe as the murders. The interview is a long & disturbing read but gives a good background as well as a feeling for how KK might be as a witness.

JMO

ETA context

 

[Gigiky]

I'm very careful about posting my thoughts/opinions on this case because most times I'm left scratching my head. But here goes. I remember hearing Lawyer Lee saying in her recap that the reason RA was placed in the prison Psychiatric Unit and not held in jail was for his safety. Before I retired I was the Supervisor of a Correctional Psychiatric Treatment Unit. And when it was first built it was considered state of the art. It was a 150 bed unit. It was divide into wings each consisting of 50 beds. And with in this unit there were different levels of care, depending on the progress you made while in treatment. And if an inmate would have a Psychotic episode then he would be placed on a 72 hour hold until he could be reevaluated and then start working the steps to go to the next level., which would include free time to go out into the common area to watch TV or do their laundry. Eat in the small dining room etc. Inmates that were housed in this Specialty Unit were Medium to some Maximum level offenders due to this Treatment Facility being the only one of its kind in the State. So my point I'm trying to make is why was RA put in an observation cell for 13 months and he hadn't/hasn't been convicted of a crime? I can understand not putting him in General population for his own safety. But housing him like they have is atrocious. As for the eating of the feces I think its an eating disorder called (PICA) that can occur for different reasons. One being several Mental Health Diagnosis. And that's JMO!

 

[SouthEnd]

I don't think I'd agree with Odinism being brought in, but am not opposed to the idea of this third party angle or argument as I think there is something to it with different parties being a part of the investigation especially as some were POIs or have confessed to the crime themselves.

I feel there is a Nexus.

Definitely not Odinism though.

JMO MOO JMT

Agreed, partially. I was awaiting the 3-day pretrial hearing with dread because I still believed there could be some very strong evidence against KAK. Needless to say I was shocked at the 10 mins they spent on him.

After following the P's case for me the door has closed, but I still think that if there was a more vigorous argument to include KAK as SODDI it would have been perfectly fair for the jury to hear the evidence. The rest? Not a molecule of factual evidence, IMO.

All MOO

 

[INfisherman]

I can imagine how they might feel once the trial is over when they find out all the things that we know that they aren’t privy to, and all the issues with the case legally to date. Moo.

Not asking about this case.

If you were on a jury for a murder trial, a DP case, would you even want to go back & study it up to the trial or follow it afterwards? Or just leave it alone? I can see reasons for both.

ETA in/on

 

[Rosegold68]

@Gigiky

Where would the ideal place for him to go whilst he awaited trial? In your opinion?