Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[photographer4]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

www.wishtv.com

“Mullin revealed investigators later identified the person seen on the trail cam; that person’s name was not shared”

Oh? So uh, what’s this about? Not moo. Asking an actual question.

 

[m00c0w]

Yes, that is precisely the issue. The judge (a government actor) decided that a theory wasn't suitable for a jury to consider. The 6th amendment, like all amendments, was written to limit the power of the government to make decisions about what are wild-goose chase theories and what aren't wild goose-chase theories. Those are things people (juries) should consider, not our government for us.

Not exactly… the judge decided that certain evidence wasn’t probative in value or had a tendency to confuse the issues that outweighed the relevance of the evidence. Given that the evidence was hardly relevant to begin with, it’s not a high bar to show its probability to confuse should result in its inadmissibility.

And judges are exactly the people that make this decision, every single day. And in general, SCOTUS has upheld the ability of a trial court to limit witnesses, especially when it comes to third party culpability.

The precedent is literally so against the defense’s current position that they had to misrepresent case law when trying to get the original motion in limine denied. Indiana consistently requires a material connection to the crime, and the defense has not been able to pass this relatively high bar. Every case the defense cited had an element this defense does not, which linked the third party back to the crime in a real way.

If you carefully parse the defense’s repeated motions, you’ll find that there is not much of substance. It’s a lot of speculation, accusations, conflating facts and misrepresenting evidence. They cannot connect any of their people of interest to the crimes, or they would have. They would have more than “he was possibly in a truck on one of these days and there was a truck seen in Delphi”, or “he had photos on Facebook of Odinist stuff”, or “if we move the crime 13 hours into the future with no rational basis, we can eliminate alibis”.

If I was RA, I would be afraid and I would be angry that they spent so much time, money, and effort trying to plug a sinking ship instead of bailing out to a new ship when they had the chance. I think RA is absolutely getting hosed here, but not by the state.

JMO

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone!
Be sure to take our Websleuths Delphi poll. We put up a new poll before court every day.
We will track how many people change their minds or if the poll numbers stay steady throughout the trial. CLICK HERE to take the poll.
Tricia

 

[Gigiky]

@Gigiky

Where would the ideal place for him to go whilst he awaited trial? In your opinion?

They could have housed him in that Mental Health Unit but not kept in him in an observation cell for 13 months. It's a prison I'm pretty sure they housed other Inmates there who committed crimes that are equal to what RA is being charged with.

 

[otto]

“He has tried to backdoor testimony about harsh living conditions contributing to abnormal behaviour, false confessions, and suicide threats.”

Can you explain this to me like I’m 5? TIA

Will do my best

Richard Allen is a manipulative, controlling man who threatened suicide during conversations with his wife, mother, and prison staff in order to achieve personal goals. With prison staff, he wanted better living conditions. With his wife and mother he wanted assurance that they will still love him when they "get it".

He tried to backdoor "I'm a victim" through protestations on video that were not allowed in court. His conditions were allegedly so harsh that he had to eat poop? He washed his face in the toilet and he was giving confessions suicide threats to his wife and mother? If they agree that he was crazy, even if the courts disagree, then he can be forgiven according to Ricky, his wife, and his mother? Nevermind the ravine murders?

The denial surrounding Richard Allens' wife's absence of recognition of Richard Allen as murderer reminds me of this. It almost seems financially motivated - to remain silent when they recognize the person in the video.

The Story Behind Into the Fire: The Lost Daughter

A new Netflix documentary follows Cathy Terkanian, who learns that a child she put up for adoption had been missing for 21 years.

time.com

 

[WildHuncher]

Agreed, partially. I was awaiting the 3-day pretrial hearing with dread because I still believed there could be some very strong evidence against KAK. Needless to say I was shocked at the 10 mins they spent on him.

After following the P's case for me the door has closed, but I still think that if there was a more vigorous argument to include KAK as SODDI it would have been perfectly fair for the jury to hear the evidence. The rest? Not a molecule of factual evidence, IMO.

All MOO

The tie-in with KAK is such an obvious and natural conclusion that I’m sure LE would have found it had there been anything to find. We know they spent kilo dollars pursuing KAK’s lies about evidence his father threw in the Wabash River.

They didn’t find anything because it wasn’t there to find.

 

[MassGuy]

They could have housed him in that Mental Health Unit but not kept in him in an observation cell for 13 months. It's a prison I'm pretty sure they housed other Inmates there who committed crimes that are equal to what RA is being charged with.

That's always been my question here, what could they have done differently that would have guaranteed he'd be alive for trial (suicidal before and during), but afforded him the rights of other people in his situation?

So this mental health unit would meet these requirements?

 

[AugustWest]

Not exactly… the judge decided that certain evidence wasn’t probative in value or had a tendency to confuse the issues that outweighed the relevance of the evidence. Given that the evidence was hardly relevant to begin with, it’s not a high bar to show its probability to confuse should result in its inadmissibility.

And judges are exactly the people that make this decision, every single day. And in general, SCOTUS has upheld the ability of a trial court to limit witnesses, especially when it comes to third party culpability.

The precedent is literally so against the defense’s current position that they had to misrepresent case law when trying to get the original motion in limine denied. Indiana consistently requires a material connection to the crime, and the defense has not been able to pass this relatively high bar. Every case the defense cited had an element this defense does not, which linked the third party back to the crime in a real way.

If you carefully parse the defense’s repeated motions, you’ll find that there is not much of substance. It’s a lot of speculation, accusations, conflating facts and misrepresenting evidence. They cannot connect any of their people of interest to the crimes, or they would have. They would have more than “he was possibly in a truck on one of these days and there was a truck seen in Delphi”, or “he had photos on Facebook of Odinist stuff”, or “if we move the crime 13 hours into the future with no rational basis, we can eliminate alibis”.

If I was RA, I would be afraid and I would be angry that they spent so much time, money, and effort trying to plug a sinking ship instead of bailing out to a new ship when they had the chance. I think RA is absolutely getting hosed here, but not by the state.

JMO

I've read every single motion in this case. Every one. I have also read every piece of precedent submitted in support of both sides arguments in this case. Every single referenced case. <modsnip>

 

[MassGuy]

The tie-in with KAK is such an obvious and natural conclusion that I’m sure LE would have found it had there been anything to find. We know they spent kilo dollars pursuing KAK’s lies about evidence his father threw in the Wabash River.

They didn’t find anything because it wasn’t there to find.

Yes. I think they were confident at one point that he was the nexus here. That investigation spared no expense, and I'm sure the vast majority of people on here felt the same. I know I did.

That's why I was shocked when we heard about Allen, but I'm obviously more than comfortable now. It appears to be nothing more than a crazy coincidence that was chased down and led to nothing.

 

[INfisherman]

They didn’t find anything because it wasn’t there to find.

RSBM

I’m of the opinion there was something to find at one point, LE just didn’t get it fast enough before certain things were deleted & RA hid or destroyed specific devices.

ETA JMO

 

[Boxer]

I thought she parked near Mears Entrance with 4 parking stalls at the trail head. Richard Allen was seen walking near the Freedom Bridge.
Image credit: upthread

View attachment 542530

Yes. She parked at Mears walked to the MHB saw the man on the MHB, turned around passed Abby and Libby on their way to the MHB continued down to Freedom Bridge and back up to her car at Mears.

 

[otto]

Yes. She parked at Mears walked to the MHB saw the man on the MHB, turned around passed Abby and Libby on their way to the MHB continued down to Freedom Bridge and back up to her car at Mears.

Thank you ... I wondered about the Freedom Bridge loop.

Libby and Abby were dropped off at the Mears Entrances, so Libby and Abby must have been on the bridge trail before the witness headed towards the Freedom Bridge.

 

[WildHuncher]

It appears to be nothing more than a crazy coincidence that was chased down and led to nothing.

Exactly. I couldn’t believe it wasn’t SOMEBODY from that catfishing ring.

 

[Davemac1]

LE are making this a lot harder than it should be with their shoddy record taking and filing. Officer Dan Dulin being a prime example with his failure to press Allen on what he was wearing and other details in his 5 minute parking lot interview!

I am now thinking Allen originally came forward to LE to tell them that he was the guy in the picture and I'll explain why.
Remember, the first time the picture of BG was released it was just a still shot and not a video The source of it had not been declared. He wasn't even officially known as BG then. LE just said they wanted to speak to the person as he was on the trails ( note, not bridge) at around the time Abby and Libby were there.
It was released on Feb 15th at 18:50 and low and behold, the very next day Allen informs LE he was there.
We don't know who took that original message(shock,horror!) but Dulin followed it up a few days later.
Now I'm pretty sure the killer/ Allen didn't think Abby and Libby had a device that produced that picture. The device would have been confiscated the moment he found it. But he didn't. Libby must have kept it well concealed when she shot the video. Hence why Law enforcement managed to find the phone but the girls murderer didn't.
I believe Allen thought the group of girls including Breann Wilber took the picture when he approached them on his way to the monan bridge. One of them even said in their testimony that they were on the trails to hike and TAKE PICTURES! He probably saw them with their phones out when he walked passed.
Now he had a big problem but I guess he figured they took the photo on the trail and not the bridge. Plus his wife probably said that "looks awfully like you dear" when she saw it. "It was probably taken by the three girls I saw when I was down there. Ill speak to LE in the morning and clear this up."
Notice in his statement he only mentions seeing the 3 girls!
But shortly after LE released this fantastic bit of incriminating evidence, Officer Dulin <modsnip>, fails to ask a lead suspect what he was wearing when he was there or more importantly if he was the guy in the photo!!

 

[Gigiky]

That's always been my question here, what could they have done differently that would have guaranteed he'd be alive for trial (suicidal before and during), but afforded him the rights of other people in his situation?

So this mental health unit would meet these requirements?

The facility I referred to could have met those requirements. But its not located in the state of Indiana. But I assumed because they were holding him in an observation cell in a Psychic Unit that they had other (level) regular cells as well.

 

[KentuckyMama]

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 8 | Lead investigator on interrogation; Defense says Allen was never read his rights

Richard Allen denied any involvement during police interrogation says lead investigator in trial's eighth day.

www.wrtv.com

"When Allen was asked how he normally carried a gun, he responded he used a side holster. Allen told Holeman he usually carried his pistol with one round in his chamber."

One round in the chamber means the bullet is now loaded and the gun is able to be shot immediately without needing to rack it. The rest of the bullets are down in the magazine.

Thank you. I guess this is what I read. I can't find anything yet saying he only had one bullet in his gun. Just that he always had one chambered.

 

[somequestions]

The white van is nothing new. Not even sure RA said “white.” Possibly only van. It was circulating on social media 6 years ago. Dr. Wala with all her social media accounts was most likely aware of the white van and could very well have shared it during her conversations with RA. The interesting part is that BW has now placed himself close to the location of the CS (at down the hill) during the exact time it was all happening. I think it finally dawned on him and that is why he got so angry at Rozzi. Back in 2017, he put himself arriving there at a later time. His story has changed. Likely why the D has served him. Additionally, it has been testified to by the ballistics expert that BW’s gun could not be ruled out as being a gun through which the bullet could have been cycled. Facts matter.
JMHO

The main problem will be how could Richard Allen have come up with that type of confession that is so compelling based on the homeowner with the van driving near the crime scene at the time of the crime? That is a detail only the abductor murderer would know. Whatever his mental state at the time, I think that detail of the confession is going to be very hard to overcome.

I think the only thing the defense really has left is if the jury starts asking questions about how Richard Allen got back to his car after the murders. During the confession Richard Allen made to Dr. Walla, she said Richard Allen said to her that he stayed off the trails. You have the witness, SC, who says she saw who she thinks was bridge guy at 3:57pm walking along the road that runs next to the trail. Did Richard Allen confess that he tried to avoid the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance camera on that road while walking back to his car?

I thought he was innocent. It appears now that he is the murderer, but I would still like to know how he got back to his car.

 

[Rosegold68]

Will do my best

Richard Allen is a manipulative, controlling man who threatened suicide during conversations with his wife, mother, and prison staff in order to achieve personal goals. With prison staff, he wanted better living conditions. With his wife and mother he wanted assurance that they will still love him when they "get it".

He tried to backdoor "I'm a victim" through protestations on video that were not allowed in court. His conditions were allegedly so harsh that he had to eat poop? He washed his face in the toilet and he was giving confessions suicide threats to his wife and mother? If they agree that he was crazy, even if the courts disagree, then he can be forgiven according to Ricky, his wife, and his mother? Nevermind the ravine murders?

The denial surrounding Richard Allens' wife's absence of recognition of Richard Allen as murderer reminds me of this. It almost seems financially motivated - to remain silent when they recognize the person in the video.

The Story Behind Into the Fire: The Lost Daughter

A new Netflix documentary follows Cathy Terkanian, who learns that a child she put up for adoption had been missing for 21 years.

time.com

What better living conditions was he wanting? Is that documented anywhere? By ‘threatening suicide’ to prison staff what ‘personal goals’ was he trying to achieve? Who said this?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Exactly. I couldn’t believe it wasn’t SOMEBODY from that catfishing ring.

Same. But at least they got KAK on his own. If it weren’t for the shots profile being found on Libby’s device, he would still be preying on teens

 

[loreet]

I’ve been listen to the HTC readings of RA’s confessional calls with his mother and KA. All follows is IMO.

I understand these women in RA’s life believe they are trying to protect him by denying his confessions of guilt. Certainly his lawyers have counseled RA, KA, and JA not to discuss any admissions of guilt on those recorded lines. My own feeling is that these continued denials of his truth and reality are incredibly mentally and spiritually unhealthy. Of course this is Not just true in this murder case, but many. I mean — RA clearly states he has accepted Jesus as his savior and expresses over and over that he wants to confess to these important people in his life. He is calm and clear. And KA and JA shut him up immediately.

That denial his wife and mother express on these calls is damaging to themselves and RA. Emotionally, mentally, spiritually. I believe this dissonance is easily as damaging as any solitary confinement he experienced.