Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[gremlin444]

RA's mental health timeline from the link
[snip]
March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

****************
Then there is this; so who knows what they did? Voluntary or Involuntary?
[snip]
Prosecutors said that they had considered “involuntary medication” to treat Allen’s symptoms, but two psychiatrists and a psychologist had allegedly deemed it unnecessary, and they also felt it wasn’t necessary to move him to another facility with a psychiatric unit.

Shocking Details Of Delphi Murders And Suspect’s Health Revealed In Documents

The newly unsealed documents provide insight into what investigators found at the crime scene as well as their interactions with Richard Allen before and after his arrest.

www.huffpost.com

Great list! Thanks!

They do appear to be at roughly monthly intervals, so that lends itself a bit more to the monthly long acting Haldol injection. Unfortunately the May and June entries don't specify if the medication given was an injection or not (not to mention involuntary or not). The April involuntary injection leans a bit more towards at least the first dose being the short acting injection.

And it's all complicated by the fact that while on the monthly long acting Haldol, you can be given an immediate release Haldol injection if there are episodes of increased aggression/psychosis.

Haldol Decanoate Dosage Guide - Drugs.com

Detailed dosage guidelines and administration information for Haldol Decanoate (haloperidol decanoate). Includes dose adjustments, warnings and precautions.

www.drugs.com

 

[KSwizzle]

The following things can be all true:

-RA is the murderer
-LE was terrible in their investigation, dismissing the FBI, losing interviews, not writing into notes interviews and evidence, honestly the whole thing was terrible MOO
-RA was inhumanely treated to potentially an egregious point and he was experiencing psychosis during this time

MOO but LE was lucky RA gave all these confessions because if he did not this falls apart to me

 

[IzzyBlanche]

What is the FBI agent expected to testify about, does anyone know that too?

 

[INfisherman]

What is the FBI agent expected to testify about, does anyone know that too?

Probably Weber’s initial statement he gave to the agent.

JMO

ETA clarity

 

[MassGuy]

The following things can be all true:

-RA is the murderer
-LE was terrible in their investigation, dismissing the FBI, losing interviews, not writing into notes interviews and evidence, honestly the whole thing was terrible MOO
-RA was inhumanely treated to potentially an egregious point and he was experiencing psychosis during this time

MOO but LE was lucky RA gave all these confessions because if he did not this falls apart to me

That’s pretty much where I’m at.

The only thing I differ with is the importance of the confessions. They’re crucial if one doesn’t not believe the ballistic analysis, but far less important if one does.

I wish those results had been independently verified by the FBI, and it will be interesting to hear from the defense expert on the subject.

 

[INfisherman]

Is it just me or does the defense’s presentation just seem all over the place? Maybe that’s another strategy in hopes of confusing the jury. Doesn’t lend itself to telling a story which refutes the evidence given by the state. Maybe I’m jumping the gun a bit.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Then there is this; so who knows what they did? Voluntary or Involuntary?

May have been both.
Found this

This led to Allen’s first dose of involuntary medication on April 13, 2023. On May 11, he received his second injection of Haloperidol, a drug used for mental disorders. Wala stated how Allen continued to show signs of self-harm, such as bruising from banging his head, which led to another involuntary injection on June 5.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/i-just-want-to-sign-my-confession-richard-allen-gives-his-account-of-delphi-murders-to-prison-psychologist/

 

[gremlin444]

“I think” I heard in the WHTR debrief last night that FBI Pohl would be in court testifying on Monday after the judge denied him testifying by video.

They also said Brad Webber would be called to the stand by the defense on Monday

I double checked. At about 39 min into the recap, they say it is Brad Weber who will be on the stand on Monday. Before that they said Pohl was denied remotely, they didn't mention in person. They said that Gull seemed to be expressing the sentiment that "hey, if you want to impeach Brad Weber, you talk to Brad Weber directly."

So many details for the reporters and all of us to keep track of! I think everyone is exhausted at this point.

 

[photographer4]

I’m pretty sure this was the first photo LE released of BG. If it’s not it’s pretty much identical to it.
BG is clearly on the bridge. Not sure how that affects your scenario.

View attachment 542549

A man being on a bridge does not make the man a killer. The state has not proven BARD (imo) that a man on the bridge killed the kids, and certainly not that said man is RA. Mooo.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

Which creates a question in my mind about how he was arrested and held pretrial so long to begin with- hence my due process questions- if he hadn’t been held as he was there would not be these confessions under these circumstances and no confessions no case really- with all the other things that are questionable lost interview videos, misfiled leads, kicked out FBI etc it’s rather problematic for me-

Regardless of my feelings about guilty or not, the process has complicated the case - moo

Absolutely agree. The case has been extremely difficult to get a sense of a timeline, reconcile the testimony and establish a direct connection to RA. Moreso since we can’t even hear or see the case or read the days transcripts. The jury is, so it will be a case where the jury truly decides if they have the right guy or if they can’t agree. I think I would be surprised if there was an absolute aquital.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

A man being on a bridge does not make the man a killer. The state has not proven BARD (imo) that a man on the bridge killed the kids, and certainly not that said man is RA. Mooo.

I agree with that and I am sure the jury is grappling with that and the original unaltered video they saw.

 

[MassGuy]

A man being on a bridge does not make the man a killer. The state has not proven BARD (imo) that a man on the bridge killed the kids, and certainly not that said man is RA. Mooo.

That man approached the girls and ordered them down the hill, that is not in dispute. In what world does that not make him the killer?

 

[photographer4]

Seeing that photo again …. I definitely see RA now. And a gun shape in right pocket

Just stands out to me

You now see RA - did you think it could be RA without having seen the photo based on their descriptions of what they saw? Poofy hair, tan jacket, feminine eyes, boyish... (see my prior posts upthread for links to these assertions). If you had NOT seen this photo - would you think of RA?

 

[gremlin444]

Quick note...at the end of Friday, Judge Gull did give permission for inmate Jesse James to be transported to testify.

Former fire chief says he saw no clothes in creek the night Abby and Libby went missing | Day 13 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

The Murder Sheet said the DT said that Jesse James was very important to them, more so than some of the other transport requests that they had filed.

 

[KSwizzle]

And I know it seems like from all my posts in this trial that I’m favoring RA and not giving enough respect to the victims, I have a daughter around the same age and as I’m saying these things I believe as a society we need to be better than these monsters/losers and so we should afford them what they didn’t afford their victims, show them we are better then them and they get their due process and they can rot in prison afterwards

MOO

 

[Rosegold68]

You now see RA - did you think it could be RA without having seen the photo based on their descriptions of what they saw? Poofy hair, tan jacket, feminine eyes, boyish... (see my prior posts upthread for links to these assertions). If you had NOT seen this photo - would you think of RA?

No. And I definitely don’t see a tan jacket!

Weirdly, I’ve never seen the still photo much before now, just the video…a lot

 

[photographer4]

There must be a reason they've pursued the odinism thing? It makes absolutely no sense to me. But I'm not a defence lawyer.
They only need to prove RA wasn't on the trails at the time LE says he was don't they?

Another thing that does concern regardless of who is identified as BG is that there's no evidence linking him to the knife in his hand. The only thing we can really say he did with any conviction is to lead two girls down a hill.

We can't even say that imo. We can say a it *sound like* a voice on LG's recording led them down the hill. Could we say that *before* they cleaned up the audio? I don't know as I haven't heard the original. Either way, imo they didn't prove BARD the voice belongs to RA. mooo

 

[Dutch77]

The following things can be all true:

-RA is the murderer
-LE was terrible in their investigation, dismissing the FBI, losing interviews, not writing into notes interviews and evidence, honestly the whole thing was terrible MOO
-RA was inhumanely treated to potentially an egregious point and he was experiencing psychosis during this time

MOO but LE was lucky RA gave all these confessions because if he did not this falls apart to me

Exactly. Too many people are blinded and only believe what helps their side. Well said

 

[photographer4]

Just finished today's Murder Sheet episode.

A few notes:
Witness David McCain who had been out taking pictures on the bridge/trail--when asked which we he headed on 300N, he said that he couldn't remember at all and that it really could have been either way. He said even looking at the map didn't jog his memory. Whichever way he did go, he didn't see any pedestrians on the road.

The prescribing psychiatrist at Westville was Dr. Martin (I remember someone asking earlier).

The FBI agent who wrote the Max Weber interview report can't come not just because he's in charge of doing election security in Texas--he also can't travel because he has a health condition that prohibits it.

So what actual reason does JG have then to refuse remote testimony from him? Did she provide a written reasoning we can refer back to or was it just a flat "denied"? Not moo - asking a question.

 

[gremlin444]

No. And I definitely don’t see a tan jacket!

Weirdly, I’ve never seen the still photo much before now, just the video…a lot

IMHO, MOO, etc....if you look below the bottom edge of the blue jacket, there is an area of tan, several inches sticking out. That to me looks like a tan hoodie being worn under the jacket. RA in his interrogation/interviews said he thought that under his blue or black jacket that he wore to the trails that day that he might have worn a hoodie underneath.

It's easy enough after the murders to take off both jacket and hoodie, put hoodie on and stick balled up bloody jacket under the hoodie or put bloody jacket on and then put hoodie on over it.

All IMHO, MOO, etc. One of the witnesses also mentioned seeing what looked like a hoodie sticking out around the neckline of BG's jacket.