Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[vinayd]

I recall some discussion about character witnesses a few threads back. Are there legal conditions under which they can be admitted? I can't recall what we learned in the discussion.

I don't believe they come in until the sentencing phase.

 

[Davemac1]

This was a strange element of the case. If the confession about Richard Allen seeing the man driving the van is true, it makes it even stranger. The confession makes it seem like he did not want to be seen by the man in the van.

What is even more interesting is that if Richard Allen had seen the photo of BG put out on February 15th, I am surprised he was so confident that coming forward would not lead to law enforcement looking into him. At that moment in time, how would Richard Allen know that there was no way the photo could be enhanced to see the person's face or determine the person's height in the photo? He had to suspect the still photo came from the phone of one of the girls based on his walking across the bridge. My guess is that he was trying to get ahead of being questioned. That would make some sense.

It was a very strange risk to take that seemed to work for about 5 and a half years. The only reason it took 5 and a half years was because the tip got misfiled and lost.

Wonder if he was caught between a rock and a hard place?
May have told his wife he was down there on the day the girls went missing...
Then the unexpected photo appeared. " Oh yeah. There you are" She may well have said when she saw the picture on the TV.

 

[Ekliptika]

So the girls were moved back to the crime scene while the searchers were still there looking for them?

Yes, in pitch darkness, as I assume there were no lamp posts out there. And not just moved there, but also killed, as the evidence shows they were killed where they were found, dragged and sticks on them. All done in the black darkness, as flash lights would have been visible for the seachers and would have attracted attention. Perhaps the killer where wearing night vision googles?
Very plausible explanation (ironi maybe used in this post).

 

[justtrish]

If the state, judge and jury was caught off guard about the D resting so soon, that's kind of unusual----usually they'd be updating every morning about how many witnesses remain, so the judge has a way manage the time. If it was a surprise, that could be one of two things.

Maybe the D purposely pretended to keep going---then suddenly quit so the P would not be ready for their rebuttal?

OR maybe the D just ran out of witnesses or decided to just quit while they felt they were on a high note?

Court ended early yesterday also and it ended early the day before. It seems if they didn't intend to call a witness today they could have said that yesterday so they could then work on the jury instructions yesterday so not to waste several hours.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, in pitch darkness, as I assume there were no lamp posts out there. And not just moved there, but also killed, as the evidence shows they were killed where they were found, dragged and sticks on them. All done in the black darkness, as flash lights would have been visible for the seachers and would have attracted attention. Perhaps the killer where wearing night vision googles?
Very plausible explanation (ironi maybe used in this post).

Yes, night vision goggles and headphones so they could listen to music.

 

[FromGermany1]

Amazed the defense didn't call any of Allen's friends or work colleagues to testify what a stand up fella he is?

Maybe he isn't?

There is nothing more to learn of his character, IMO. We and the jury know enough now.

 

[Arkay]

1. Someone else plugged the headphones into Libby’s phone. 2. Libby plugged the headphones into her phone bc she was still alive.

SBM

With respect, I do not understand this at all.

For your #1, I cannot fathom that someone kidnapped, undressed and then murdered two girls and then figured he’d stay at the scene of the crime to unwind with a little music?

For your #2, I cannot fathom that after Libby was frightened enough to record this man who was giving orders to her and Abby, then forced down the hill and across the creek, then having her clothing removed and her throat slit, in her last moments alive she also decided that somehow, with her last breath and drenched in her own blood, it was a good time to enjoy some music?

JMO

 

[katydid23]

SBM

With respect, I do not understand this at all.

For your #1, I cannot fathom that someone kidnapped, undressed and then murdered two girls and then figured he’d stay at the scene of the crime to unwind with a little music?

For your #2, I cannot fathom that after Libby was frightened enough to record this man who was giving orders to her and Abby, then forced down the hill and across the creek, then having her clothing removed and her throat slit, in her last moments alive she also decided that somehow, with her last breath and drenched in her own blood, that it was a good time to enjoy some music?

JMO

And where did the headphones go?

 

[Willow Knight]

This may possibly rank as the worst defense plan/ strategy I’ve ever seen
JMO

Can one imagine if Mr Baldwin's quest for expert witnesses included Saturday night phone calls?

Leaving long messages on voice mail, not knowing who would be receiving the messages.

Offering view of the CS photo (must sign a DNA).

Endorsing a GIMMIE MONEY fund to pay for expert witnesses using JUSTICE FOR LIBBY AND ABBY hashtag!!!

 

[RexLuther]

How long did it take whoever did the first extraction to do it in 2017? Why, was she able to find this and he was not if the ability to do so was there back then?

2. Why is the data about power logs not available at all? Did the first guy miss a step or? Not write something down???

Not moo. Trying to understand so asking.

ISP Sgt. Cecil on day 7 explained the historical extractions but it needs its own timeline of who, what, when on the hardware and software. Andrea Burkhart gives a good account but admits it got confusing over the methods and types of extraction used. Homeland security even got involved in an extraction version.

The data on the power logs was lost due to the initial methods used where the datatable was lost/overwritten. This would have given confirmation on whether the phone was powered down / rebooted on the 13th of February.
Sgt. Cecil doesn't cover himself with glory since he started photographing phone evidence in landscape mode with the phone in portrait mode hence missing information at the bottom?!

Both parties have the latest extraction databases but for some reason the ISP miss/ignore the audio jack status change? Unsure if the phone was forensically checked but if it was then I'm sure any corrosion / water damage would be noted (well you would hope).
JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think they wanted to focus on the fact his phone was NOT in the area. It sorta blows up an alibi if a person isn't with their phone when they say they were on that phone. That phone could have cleared him fully if he actually had it on him and if he actually was NOT on the trail from 130-330. I mean it would have showed exactly where he was and when, but he didn't have it and the one he showed DD in the days after the murders, was not in the area so where was it and why would he say he had it on that trail because he was checking stocks.. he didn't even just say oh yeah I think I had my phone.. he said I was on it, using it, doing something specifiic. That is a huge deal then if it isn't there on the trail and he also didn't keep that phone. If he left as he tried to change his story to suggest, then his phone would show him leaving at 130, but it didn't and it wasn't even there.

The defense can't highlight all his lies when trying to present their case.

IMO

Was it ever even testified that RA's number wasn't on the tower dump? I don't remember testimony about the cells phone except what the D brought up pretrial about the geofencing, nothing about the actually GPS type info. Was it even brought up at trial?

 

[sunshineray]

Am I correct in remembering correctly that it was after the video image of BG was released that RA called in to LE to report he was on the bridge?

I believe it was before

 

[AugustWest]

Amazed the defense didn't call any of Allen's friends or work colleagues to testify what a stand up fella he is?

Maybe he isn't?

You have to be careful about calling witnesses to testify on your good character. It opens the door to the other side bringing in information about how bad your character is.

 

[sunshineray]

So the girls were moved back to the crime scene while the searchers were still there looking for them?

There was absolutely no evidence presented that talk about that theory, in my recollection, you?

 

[fred&edna]

And where did the headphones go?

Under the SODI's invisibility cloak, of course. (SODI = Some Odinist Did It)

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

So the girls were moved back to the crime scene while the searchers were still there looking for them?

People doubt RA could drag the victims, but apparently it's believable someone else carried them from a car without leaving any evidence, without being seen or heard by searchers, in the dark, and then took a break to listen through headphones to something before tucking the phone under a dead body. I guess they randomly tossed clothes in the creek too?

jmo

 

[AugustWest]

I recall some discussion about character witnesses a few threads back. Are there legal conditions under which they can be admitted? I can't recall what we learned in the discussion.

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[katydid23]

ISP Sgt. Cecil on day 7 explained the historical extractions but it needs its own timeline of who, what, when on the hardware and software. Andrea Burkhart gives a good account but admits it got confusing over the methods and types of extraction used. Homeland security even got involved in an extraction version.

The data on the power logs was lost due to the initial methods used where the datatable was lost/overwritten. This would have given confirmation on whether the phone was powered down / rebooted on the 13th of February.
Sgt. Cecil doesn't cover himself with glory since he started photographing phone evidence in landscape mode with the phone in portrait mode hence missing information at the bottom?!

Both parties have the latest extraction databases but for some reason the ISP miss/ignore the audio jack status change? Unsure if the phone was forensically checked but if it was then I'm sure any corrosion / water damage would be noted (well you would hope).
JMO

There probably would not be any 'damage' in the audio port by the time they began extracting. It is just condensation/droplets and or dust/dirt that gets in to the port and can trigger the notification that something is plugged in. There would not be any major clues left behind.

 

[Inthedetails]

How are we feeling?
Me - mentally exhausted.
I cannot begin to imagine what the families, the jury, the media, are feeling at this point.

Disappointed and so ready for this to be done, which is not how I expected to feel after waiting all these years for answers. We still won't know what happened and that is frustrating, and I'm disappointed at the circus atmosphere that developed after RA's arrest. I have disappointments about the court procedures too, but those will be worked out through appeal to determine of the errors are substantial.

I really wanted to feel completion and honestly some camaraderie for those of us who identified with the victims as just regular kids having fun together. I don't feel either completion or camaraderie as there are too many arguments, imo, about fantastical theories.

I expect a guilty verdict and that will be that. For a long time, this case was on my mind - the only one I've ever discussed with people "in real life." Now, I just want it finished.

jmo

 

[photographer4]

A link from yesterday