AK AK - Steve Keel, 61, missing from hunting trip, from TN - Aug 27, 2022

[annpats]

In another post, someone mentioned that the meat needed to be hung up to create a dry layer first. I don't think they said how long. Also, that seems like a lot of meat.

Oh, I see. I've never been hunting. I have no idea about any of it.

Where do you hang it up? Outside? Would it not attract bears?

And while you're waiting for it to dry, what do you do? Hunt some more? Go back to camp and sleep? Sit around the campfire drinking beer and telling stories?

It all sounds a lot of waiting for meat, getting meat, leaving and waiting for the same meat, moving meat again, preparing meat....

It sounds like actually stalking and hunting the caribou is the easy part and the hard work starts once you've got the kill.

It sounds like you need several guys, like a whole group to share it all and pitch in to help.

Do you think Bryan and Steve struggled, took on more than they could manage, became despondent, got upset/angry and had an argument of some kind?

Which then led to one of them walking off, threatening to go home without the other, or something even more nefarious?

MOO.

 

[RickshawFan]

I've expressed confusion about the logistics, also. It appears these men pulled to the side of the road in their vehicle, and carried ALL THEIR GEAR on their backs. For miles. On the soggy ground.

So often, in missing persons cases, we all get a view of a paradise where someone goes on an adventure and sadly goes missing, and I think, I sure would like to go there myself. Not this place. I can't IMAGINE willingly spending even an hour out there as recreation.

I don't get it either..... I was all about the Costa Rican beach hideaway in the Moriah Wilson case. I volunteered to take a surf trip there and do some real-time sleuthing with WS-ers on remote lol. Not that I know how to surf or anything, but I was stoked!

Not this place! I've been in some awful places, with difficult terrain, scary conditions, and terrible weather, but this one ...... I might want to see it from a vehicle on the Dalton Hwy, but slog through it for vacation? No way.

As far as I can tell, it's a very important role for the outfitters for hunts in this area: they get you and all your stuff to the hunt location, and extract you at a designated time. All correctly permitted. I'd want that security. I have a feeling they'd put you down somewhere nice, too.

SK and his buddy would have had to have a colossal cooler, correct? How are they even lugging this across the tundra? Full of food? I'm actually not certain what purpose a cooler would even serve and was surprised they even had one: bears and other predators get into those; it was also above freezing during the days and there was no ice presumably....

I can only think that they totally miscalculated the trip, and had no idea how far off they were even when they got there and were into the trip. I mean, they could have just signed up with an outfitter once they scoped out the reality? I just don't think they realized what they were into, even during the trip. That's the only possibility I can guess at.

 

[RickshawFan]

In another post, someone mentioned that the meat needed to be hung up to create a dry layer first. I don't think they said how long. Also, that seems like a lot of meat.

I thought that's what they were talking about when they said the kill was at a food cache, but it turns out, it was plopped on the ground because SK was too tired to take it to camp. So, evidently the carcasses weren't hung.

Holy cow..... the weight of just one caribou:
Adult bulls: 350-400 lbs, generally, but up to 700 lbs.
Adult females: 175-225 lbs.
Smaller sizes in the north.

Caribou Species Profile, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

General information about Caribou in Alaska such as description, life history, range, habitat and more.

www.adfg.alaska.gov

The antlers on SK's pack look like they came from a very small caribou, if these are the regular weights?

National Park Service info on Alaska caribou: Caribou - Denali National Park & Preserve (U.S. National Park Service)
National Park Service caribou photos: Photo Gallery (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[annpats]

I thought that's what they were talking about when they said the kill was at a food cache, but it turns out, it was plopped on the ground because SK was too tired to take it to camp. So, evidently the carcasses weren't hung.

Well, Steve's wasn't, but maybe Bryan's was earlier in the trip? He had a caribou about 3 days before.

Then again, maybe Bryan's weren't hung either, in which case, perhaps they weren't doing the caribou preparation correctly?

Is it essential the meat is hung before preparation? And where would you hang it?

If they weren't doing it correctly, then maybe there is plenty else about the trip they weren't doing correctly either?!

 

[RickshawFan]

I cannot imagine why, if he had a gun with him and was in trouble, he did not fire off some shots as they had discussed.

Maybe he did?

It's not clear to me how sound would travel on vacant tundra.

 

[Gardenista]

Well, Steve's wasn't, but maybe Bryan's was earlier in the trip? He had a caribou about 3 days before.

Then again, maybe Bryan's weren't hung either, in which case, perhaps they weren't doing the caribou preparation correctly?

Is it essential the meat is hung before preparation? And where would you hang it?

If they weren't doing it correctly, then maybe there is plenty else about the trip they weren't doing correctly either?!

It must not be essential because there are no trees there to hang them. So there must be an alternative way to get the crust, lol

 

[annpats]

A link below from Alaska Outdoors about hanging and drying out caribou and the amount of days recommended.

How long do hang your Caribou

Hey, sorry. How long do you guys hang your Caribou? Thanks guys!!!

forums.outdoorsdirectory.com

There are quite a few different points of view, some say 3 or 4 days, some say no more than 7 days, and some say that hanging it doesn't make much noticeable difference to taste, and some start butchering it as soon as they get the meat home.

But like you say, Bryan and Steve had no trees to hang the meat on, and I can't believe they carried it all to one of their camps and hung it there.....

Anyway, Bryan got his meat back to base camp, as he was preparing it when Steve allegedly left the next morning to go and fetch his (that he left behind the day previously.)

The distances involved and the terrain involved and all this heavy meat carrying would've been exhausting!
And that's after they've trudged for miles with all their supplies from the van setting up 2 camps!

 

[Black Diamond]

From Alaska Fish and Game website:
“Weights of adult bulls average 350 – 400 lbs (159 – 182 kg). Mature females average 175 – 225 lbs (80 – 120 kg). The dressed weight of a 400-lb (181-kg) caribou is about 240 (109 kg) lbs. This equates to about 100 lbs (45 kg) of meat.”

A guy can carry 100lb of meat at a time himself with a real struggle if he has the right pack, or 2 trips (or 2 guys splitting the load) of 50lb is much more reasonable.

 

[RickshawFan]

A link below from Alaska Outdoors about hanging and drying out caribou and the amount of days recommended.

How long do hang your Caribou

Hey, sorry. How long do you guys hang your Caribou? Thanks guys!!!

forums.outdoorsdirectory.com

There are quite a few different points of view, some say 3 or 4 days, some say no more than 7 days, and some say that hanging it doesn't make much noticeable difference to taste, and some start butchering it as soon as they get the meat home.

But like you say, Bryan and Steve had no trees to hang the meat on, and I can't believe they carried it all to one of their camps and hung it there.....

Anyway, Bryan got his meat back to base camp, as he was preparing it when Steve allegedly left the next morning to go and fetch his (that he left behind the day previously.)

The distances involved and the terrain involved and all this heavy meat carrying would've been exhausting!
And that's after they've trudged for miles with all their supplies from the van setting up 2 camps!

I can't imagine them just plopping SK's carcass in the middle of nowhere. That's sounding like something that might not actually have happened. Just out there? With no protection from predators? What about birds of prey? Mice? No bear fence? No 24-hour guard?
And if the carcass was only 1/2 a mile away, why didn't they just "freshen up" in camp and come right back for it that evening? Heck, it was light until 10 pm or something.

 

[Black Diamond]

I can't imagine them just plopping SK's carcass in the middle of nowhere. That's sounding like something that might not actually have happened. Just out there? With no protection from predators? What about birds of prey? Mice? No bear fence? No 24-hour guard?
And if the carcass was only 1/2 a mile away, why didn't they just "freshen up" in camp and come right back for it that evening? Heck, it was light until 10 pm or something.

It wouldn’t have been the carcass. It would be just the usable meat. My guess 100 Lb +\-Very likely deboned meat because the bones add a lot of weight that is unnecessary to lug around. It takes more butchering effort at the killsite to debone, but the reward is less weight to haul. In addition, the meat was all likely inside his pack in pillowcases or sacks protected from all insects and critters except maybe bears that could rip the pack apart. So leaving the pack there overnight wasn’t that irresponsible if they knew there isn’t much chance of a bear being around.

 

[acutename]

Here's an image I made taking all of the info we have so far. I used the AK Maps app. LMK if I messed any of it up or if there are other points to add

Alaska Mapper - New Map

is there a scale to this? less than a mile along the road since there isn't another mile marker or are MMs 346 and 348 just not "marked?"

 

[acutename]

Well, Steve's wasn't, but maybe Bryan's was earlier in the trip? He had a caribou about 3 days before.

Then again, maybe Bryan's weren't hung either, in which case, perhaps they weren't doing the caribou preparation correctly?

Is it essential the meat is hung before preparation? And where would you hang it?

If they weren't doing it correctly, then maybe there is plenty else about the trip they weren't doing correctly either?!

everything you will want to know:

Tips for Handling Wild Game Meat in the Field

Caring for meat is of utmost importance when hunting. Many hunters struggle with meat care on day hunts let alone in the backcountry. When hunting in the backcountry meat could be exposed to the elements for days on end. Make sure to follow certain rules to mitigate meat loss. When caring for...

www.themeateater.com

(in treeless areas, you can use rocks)

 

[Gardenista]

is there a scale to this? less than a mile along the road since there isn't another mile marker or are MMs 346 and 348 just not "marked?"

Mile posts 345-349 are marked-the lettering is gray. I just added my own label to 347 so it would pop. The scale is at the bottom = 5000 ft.

If you want to mess with it yourself, go to the link below, it will take you to the map viewer. You can put in the coordinates to the campsite which are 69.318, -148.833. The layer for the mile posts is called DOT Centerline Milepost, so click that to turn them on. That's usually the only one I turn on. There are a bunch of maps to choose from too, including topo maps and a measuring tool

Alaska Mapper - New Map

 

[annpats]

From Alaska Fish and Game website:
“Weights of adult bulls average 350 – 400 lbs (159 – 182 kg). Mature females average 175 – 225 lbs (80 – 120 kg). The dressed weight of a 400-lb (181-kg) caribou is about 240 (109 kg) lbs. This equates to about 100 lbs (45 kg) of meat.”

A guy can carry 100lb of meat at a time himself with a real struggle if he has the right pack, or 2 trips (or 2 guys splitting the load) of 50lb is much more reasonable.

Thank you for putting it in kilograms too for all of us metric people.

Yes, even the dressed meat at 100lbs/45kg is a staggering amount of weight......not to mention the actual volume of meat. Enough to feed an army!

I suppose the idea was once they put the meat into their coolers, they would then (once the trip was finished) have to transport those same coolers full of meat back to their van.....which was approx. 5 miles away!!

And how do 2 men manage that, plus taking the gear, equipment, tents, mattresses, clothing, cooking utensils, other accessories etc. over that kind of terrain over distances of up to 5 miles each way?!?

 

[5W's]

I've expressed confusion about the logistics, also. It appears these men pulled to the side of the road in their vehicle, and carried ALL THEIR GEAR on their backs. For miles. On the soggy ground.

So often, in missing persons cases, we all get a view of a paradise where someone goes on an adventure and sadly goes missing, and I think, I sure would like to go there myself. Not this place. I can't IMAGINE willingly spending even an hour out there as recreation.

The van was parked close to the base camp. The caribou meat stash was a quarter mile from the base camp. If they shared duties together then it wouldn't be as tough on them. We have to factor this in also. I would also imagine when they hunted and killed the caribou they would have been almost right there at the location of the kill and set up the stash/cache/rucksack of the meat. So it wasn't like that far distance wise.?????

 

[Gardenista]

Thank you for putting it in kilograms too for all of us metric people.

Yes, even the dressed meat at 100lbs/45kg is a staggering amount of weight......not to mention the actual volume of meat. Enough to feed an army!

I suppose the idea was, once they put the meat into their coolers, they would then, once the trip was finished, have to transport those coolers full of meat back to their van.....which was approx. 5 miles away!!

It sounds crazy for just 2 guys to manage. They should've got a group of fellow hunter friends together and all gone for the trip as a team.

I wonder if they had a sled. I saw a bunch of people using them on the videos I watched and they even work when there isn't any snow. Maybe they left it behind at base camp thinking they could manage without it. Seems like an extra 200 pounds when leaving is a LOT. I just measured and it's 2.82 miles from base camp to the van.

 

[acutename]

Thank you for putting it in kilograms too for all of us metric people.

Yes, even the dressed meat at 100lbs/45kg is a staggering amount of weight......not to mention the actual volume of meat. Enough to feed an army!

I suppose the idea was once they put the meat into their coolers, they would then (once the trip was finished) have to transport those same coolers full of meat back to their van.....which was approx. 5 miles away!!

And how do 2 men manage that, plus taking the gear, equipment, tents, mattresses, clothing, cooking utensils, other accessories etc. over that kind of terrain over distances of up to 5 miles each way?!?

multiple trips- but I expect that they were tired and it is chilly and with very little
darkness, possibly sleep deprived, IMO.

 

[annpats]

multiple trips- but I expect that they were tired and it is chilly and with very little
darkness, possibly sleep deprived, IMO.

Oh definitely. It actually sounds like a trip from hell.

 

[acutename]

Mile posts 345-349 are marked-the lettering is gray. I just added my own label to 347 so it would pop. The scale is at the bottom = 5000 ft.

If you want to mess with it yourself, go to the link below, it will take you to the map viewer. You can put in the coordinates to the campsite which are 69.318, -148.833. The layer for the mile posts is called DOT Centerline Milepost, so click that to turn them on. That's usually the only one I turn on. There are a bunch of maps to choose from too, including topo maps and a measuring tool

Alaska Mapper - New Map

thank you- I do see the gray numbers now. Not sure if a sled could be pulled over berry bushes. I do know that in other areas, people use sleds or ATVs or both. The distances are not that far; the terrain is just not conducive to easy trekking.

 

[OddOneOut]

If they are used to carrying weight, 100 or even 200 pounds isn't that much if they could get it on their shoulder. I'm older and not used to carrying anything heavy; yet, if I can get a 55 pound bag of dogfood on my shoulder, I can easily walk around with it. The hardest part is lifting it not carrying it.