Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[steeltowngirl]

Also from the article:

Baldwin had taken pains to make his gun work look realistic. A few days earlier, he’d gone into the church to walk through what it would be like to use the weapon in the scene. The live rounds he fired contained blanks, but still made enough noise that crew members were startled.

“Alec was pretty concerned about safety on set,” said another camera technician.

“He wanted to know where I would be standing when he drew his gun,” this person said. “I told him I was going to be standing in a different place, and he said, ‘Good.’”

 

[steeltowngirl]

@JaneEyre jinx!

 

[Deleted member 158085]

If Alec Baldwin had been rehearsing using the rubber revolver that we know was on set he could have pulled on the trigger all he wanted and no one would have died or been injured.

While this rehearsing was going on more care could have been taken checking the safety of the real gun for when filming started. Instead things were rushed, ending with a women being killed. JMO.


'Rust' movie shooting: Deputies confiscate more weapons, ammunition from set

Of course! But for some reason they wanted the real gun and dummy rounds for this.

Honestly, I have no idea why Hollywood does the things they do. I've stated multiple times that I think only replicas that cannot be loaded with anything, even blanks, should be used. Truly, they can add the sound later.

But this is how it is done, apparently, and I believe the cost for realism is way too high.

 

[Gardenista]

Also from the article:

Baldwin had taken pains to make his gun work look realistic. A few days earlier, he’d gone into the church to walk through what it would be like to use the weapon in the scene. The live rounds he fired contained blanks, but still made enough noise that crew members were startled.

“Alec was pretty concerned about safety on set,” said another camera technician.

“He wanted to know where I would be standing when he drew his gun,” this person said. “I told him I was going to be standing in a different place, and he said, ‘Good.’”

I wonder if they were startled because they didn't yell "hot gun". I bet the attorneys are going nuts over all these interviews.

 

[Arkay]

It's run through my mind as well that possibly someone had an axe to grind with HGR or even Hall, and they figured the mistake of live ammo in the gun would likely end careers. They didn't count on the fact a person could be killed. Maybe they just thought the bullet would hit some random object?

That would be such an ENORMOUS risk to take. To bring a deadly bullet on set, load it into a deadly gun, and cross their fingers that the actor shoots only a random object?

And they would have to know in advance that HGR or Hall would not do their jobs diligently, otherwise they wouldn't actually be in trouble and this would all be moot.

 

[Luna20]

I’ve been thinking about what they will come up with for HGR’s legal defense. Any thoughts on it?

 

[Marysmith]

I’ve been thinking about what they will come up with for HGR’s legal defense. Any thoughts on it?

The set was unsafe and the AD didn’t check diligently, to start anyways?

 

[shotgun09]

I’ve been thinking about what they will come up with for HGR’s legal defense. Any thoughts on it?

Safety was ignored, from the top on down.

 

[10ofRods]

If they didn't want him to pull the trigger, why bother loading it with anything at all?

That's the whole point. AD yelled "Cold Gun!" which means "Not Loaded At all!"

The gun should never have been loaded. Even a gun with dummies or blanks is NOT a "cold gun."

Only an unloaded gun is cold. Most of the time when a gun is pointed directly at the camera, we never see the trigger actually pulled. We may hear the post-production sound of a bullet firing, but we don't see the trigger being pulled, because our minds fill in that action.

Further, if they had decided to have Baldwin pull the trigger (due to an angle on the shot that might have showed it), it definitely should have been a cold gun. Which it wasn't, obviously.

Back in the old days of filming Westerns, the actors were taught to make a certain motion with the gun (as if the gun had kicked back on them) so that the other actors could react to the "shot." No shot was fired. Audiences didn't care and millions of kids imitated that same "Pow" motion because they thought it was realistic. There's no puff of smoke in those old movies, no blazing guns. Just a little jerk to show that it's been shot (and for the sound editor to put in the bullet sound).

A cold gun is a gun without any type of ammo in it.

 

[jjenny]

Cold gun doesn't mean not loaded at all. If loaded with dummies, it's also a cold gun. If loaded with blanks or live ammo, it's a hot gun.
Dummies are inert, they don't make noise, and don't fire a projectile.
So gun loaded with dummies is also considered a cold gun. Basically dummies are fake ammunition that resemble live ammo but are harmless (don't fire, don't make nose, can't injure anyone). The problem is that they look similar to live ammo, so if person loading the gun isn't careful, and dummies and live ammo are mixed together, a tragedy can take place.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

That's the whole point. AD yelled "Cold Gun!" which means "Not Loaded At all!"

The gun should never have been loaded. Even a gun with dummies or blanks is NOT a "cold gun."

Only an unloaded gun is cold. Most of the time when a gun is pointed directly at the camera, we never see the trigger actually pulled. We may hear the post-production sound of a bullet firing, but we don't see the trigger being pulled, because our minds fill in that action.

Further, if they had decided to have Baldwin pull the trigger (due to an angle on the shot that might have showed it), it definitely should have been a cold gun. Which it wasn't, obviously.

Back in the old days of filming Westerns, the actors were taught to make a certain motion with the gun (as if the gun had kicked back on them) so that the other actors could react to the "shot." No shot was fired. Audiences didn't care and millions of kids imitated that same "Pow" motion because they thought it was realistic. There's no puff of smoke in those old movies, no blazing guns. Just a little jerk to show that it's been shot (and for the sound editor to put in the bullet sound).

A cold gun is a gun without any type of ammo in it.

I think on a film set, a gun loaded with dummies is 'cold' as they cannot fire.

I read this a few days ago:

According to an earlier affidavit filed by the Sheriff’s Office, Halls allegedly yelled “cold gun,” meaning the weapon was not loaded, as he was handing it to Baldwin. But the crew member who spoke to The Times remembers Gutierrez Reed as being the one to have pronounced the gun “cold.” A gun loaded with dummy rounds would be considered “cold” on a film set.

Sheriff: Lead bullet fatally struck 'Rust' cinematographer; 500 rounds of ammo recovered on set

 

[jjenny]

I’ve been thinking about what they will come up with for HGR’s legal defense. Any thoughts on it?

We already heard from her lawyers, that she didn't know there were live bullets on the set, that she had two jobs (prop assistant and armorer) and so on.

 

[jjenny]

Wow this article is more detailed than the one from @Mo Thuairim that I commented on earlier today #182. What’s missing from these still is any word from Sarah the prop master. No doubt she is listening to her attorney. I’m curious if she and HGR accounting of events will overlap.

My guess is Sarah also doesn't have a lot of experience as a prop master. More experienced people likely turned the job down.

 

[Luna20]

HGR can say the set had issues but she still took the job. It also doesn’t excuse her from knowing the difference between the ammo types.

 

[Satchie]

Of course! But for some reason they wanted the real gun and dummy rounds for this.

Honestly, I have no idea why Hollywood does the things they do. I've stated multiple times that I think only replicas that cannot be loaded with anything, even blanks, should be used. Truly, they can add the sound later.

But this is how it is done, apparently, and I believe the cost for realism is way too high.

I expect it's like everything else in Hollywood: competition for viewers.

I don't know who watches Westerns or what they're looking for, but I imagine the old style ambience of a western set, western costumes and especially western guns are what they're looking for (and many scenes of actors using those guns to shoot each other). So that's what film makers give them.

Everyone is using real guns, no one is making fake guns that look real, so who wants to be the one to make the movie that viewers heap scorn on because the guns are obvious fakes. Unfortunately, as film quality has become higher and higher, particularly at home with massive screens, those details are obvious.

JMO

 

[Luna20]

We already heard from her lawyers, that she didn't know there were live bullets on the set, that she had two jobs (prop assistant and armorer) and so on.

She still has to defend the bullets that were in the gun when she passed it to Hall though right?

 

[jjenny]

She still has to defend the bullets that were in the gun when she passed it to Hall though right?

Yep, her job is to make sure the gun is loaded properly (with dummies) and not live ammo.

 

[10ofRods]

I haven’t been able to find information about any record keeping the armorer would use to track inventory of the guns, blanks and dummies.

If only for budgetary and liability concerns wouldn’t the armorer record what’s been bought or rented and what’s used each day?

There must be some system in place but no one has talked about it so far.

@mickey2942 I see you’re asking too!

That's why, usually, an armourer is a full time hire. Not a part time hire, as in this case (she had two jobs - one of which was being propmaster, which is usually done by 2 people).

This was a very low budget production and it's in several MSM reports that the more experienced armourer they tried to hire said no, that he would need two full time assistants to do it properly and that it couldn't be done with a half-time person.

I think it's the same guy who said that even dummies and blanks should be stored in a safe and handled only by the armourer.

Another puzzling piece of this, if it's true that it was a vintage or vintage style Colt, is that the gun had to be cocked for it to fire. If it was cocked, then whoever cocked it is extremely negligent for not first checking that *all* rounds were removed from the cylinder (which is done by ejecting them, one by one...with the gun n the half-cocked position - as someone upthread detailed carefully, and which I have now read three times and shared with some gun owners I know - it's a very specific procedure).

I'd really like to know if either HGR or the AD knew exactly how this gun worked and how much time they'd put in shooting blanks from it to make sure it was properly operational - and of course, then, unloaded and the barrel clear of all possible debris.

 

[MikeF]

That would be such an ENORMOUS risk to take. To bring a deadly bullet on set, load it into a deadly gun, and cross their fingers that the actor shoots only a random object?

And they would have to know in advance that HGR or Hall would not do their jobs diligently, otherwise they wouldn't actually be in trouble and this would all be moot.

I've not seen the other ammo (in the 500 collected) definitely identified as live rounds, so right now we know there was one live round on the set. Someone brought it there. It was already known both Hall and HGR had prior mistakes made, so maybe it was just a waiting game for whoever. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

HGR can say the set had issues but she still took the job. It also doesn’t excuse her from knowing the difference between the ammo types.

If she wasn't given the proper amount of time to make sure the weapons were safe, she should not have handed any of them out. It's that simple. JMO.