Andrew Kinsman, 49, Toronto, 26 June 2017

[Grey-St]

Yeah, and in the case of Laura Babcock, her murderer was her last EIGHT calls on her phone. When she was missing, they didnèt even ask who the last person she called was.

THAT is failure to do your job. I will tar and feather. The police force is not easy to get into, and I know many who would have died for a job in that place and certainly wouldn't have turned their backs on someone simply because they were an escort, foreign, or homosexual.

Actually, it's sadly even worse. They were made aware of who her last eight calls were between, and still did nothing.

 

[matou]

Bruce McArthur barred from Gay Village as part of sentence for 2001 assault

Accused killer also prohibited from spending time with male prostitutes after assaulting a man with metal pipe almost 15 years ago.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...age-as-part-of-sentence-for-2001-assault.html

OMG

 

[matou]

As part of McArthur’s sentence, except for work or medical appointments, he was ordered to stay away from the area between University Ave. to the west, Bloor St. to the north, Sherbourne St. to the east and College/Carlton to the south — an area that includes Toronto’s Gay Village.

It’s not clear if the conditions lasted after two years.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...age-as-part-of-sentence-for-2001-assault.html

 

[matou]

The order was likely put in place to protect male prostitutes, he added.

McArthur was also ordered to stay at least 10 metres away from 484 Church St., the City Park Co-operative Apartments, or any address known to be the home or workplace of the victim.

He was further ordered to go to counselling, including anger management. He was not allowed to have any firearms, cross-bows, ammunition or explosives for 10 years, and was to have a sample of DNA taken and added to a database.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...age-as-part-of-sentence-for-2001-assault.html

 

[Grey-St]

Bruce McArthur barred from Gay Village as part of sentence for 2001 assault

Accused killer also prohibited from spending time with male prostitutes after assaulting a man with metal pipe almost 15 years ago.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...age-as-part-of-sentence-for-2001-assault.html

OMG

W T F.

I feel sick for the second time today now.

 

[tarabull]

N O - W O R D S

:thud:

 

[Satchie]

I don't disagree with you. I'm not against the police, I've worked closely with the best of best that TPS has to offer, throughout my own career. But it can't be ignored that missing persons cases are continuously being mishandled, it's a huge and scary problem. We are talking about the most preliminary steps in a missing persons investigation. Holding their cards close in order to secure a conviction is understandable, but that wasn't even in their sight yet, there was no suspect, because the missing persons cases were hardly being dug into.

I resent being referred to an armchair quarterback when I feel unsafe in my city, and worry that if I god forbid ever go missing, will TPS care?

And for the record, I fully support dotr's post, these missing men need to be found and the only person at fault is BM. We need to come together and offer support and show compassion for these folks, their friends, and their loved ones. But when the time is right, something needs to systemically change within TPS.

I think the issue is, a missing persons case is not yet a crime. I haven't looked for stats, but most often it's either suicide, an accident or someone walking away from their life and not wanting to be found.

And, as police frequently say, it's not a crime to run away/leave your family, or even kill yourself, and it's nobodies business why, especially not the police.

We all have a fundamental right to personal privacy, enshrined in legislation. My spouse, my mother, don't own my personal information, unless I'm proved to be dead .

Privacy legislation means, unless it's potentially evidence in a crime, police aren't allowed to take someone's computer and rummage around for details of their private life. Police can use their powers to monitor financial transactions, online presence and phone use, but exclusively for the purpose of locating the missing person to do a welfare check. Not to figure out the details of their private life.

 

[Grey-St]

(Speculation) So he elicits the services of a male sex worker, and then beats him with a metal pipe. Nice guy.

 

[matou]

(Speculation) So he elicits the services of a male sex worker, and then beats him with a metal pipe. Nice guy.

I was thinking worse than that. JMO

 

[Grey-St]

I think the issue is, a missing persons case is not yet a crime. I haven't looked for stats, but most often it's either suicide, an accident or someone walking away from their life and not wanting to be found.

And, as police frequently say, it's not a crime to run away/leave your family, or even kill yourself, and it's nobodies business why, especially not the police.

We all have a fundamental right to personal privacy, enshrined in legislation. My spouse, my mother, don't own my personal information, unless I'm proved to be dead .

Privacy legislation means, unless it's potentially evidence in a crime, police aren't allowed to take someone's computer and rummage around for details of their private life. Police can use their powers to monitor financial transactions, online presence and phone use, but exclusively for the purpose of locating the missing person to do a welfare check. Not to figure out the details of their private life.

Yeah, I agree with this in the sense that it's likely what complicates things. However, it's my belief that these are the policies, procedures, and provisions that need revision. While privacy legislation is important, it's a tricky thing to navigate when we're talking about missing people. Folks often go missing, and are found, show up, make contact, die by suicide, or die by accident. I don't refute that. But for the folks that don't, for LE to say that people can go missing on their own accord and it's not a crime to do so, I challenge that statement. I don't believe that it's actually common for people to just up and abandon their lives without a single trace of digital footprint. Jmo.

 

[nuff]

I don't disagree with you. I'm not against the police, I've worked closely with the best of best that TPS has to offer, throughout my own career. But it can't be ignored that missing persons cases are continuously being mishandled, it's a huge and scary problem. We are talking about the most preliminary steps in a missing persons investigation. Holding their cards close in order to secure a conviction is understandable, but that wasn't even in their sight yet, there was no suspect, because the missing persons cases were hardly being dug into.

I resent being referred to an armchair quarterback when I feel unsafe in my city, and worry that if I god forbid ever go missing, will TPS care?

And for the record, I fully support dotr's post, these missing men need to be found and the only person at fault is BM. We need to come together and offer support and show compassion for these folks, their friends, and their loved ones. But when the time is right, something needs to systemically change within TPS.

Face it - if you're white, middle-class, straight, have relatives and/or friends who will raise the alarm, TPS and other forces across the country will care. If you're anything else - indigenous or poor or black or mentally ill or engaged in "risky" behaviour (which could be anything from being a sex worker to substance abus ) - good luck. There's a reason for the MMIWG.

 

[Grey-St]

Face it - if you're white, middle-class, straight, have relatives and/or friends who will raise the alarm, TPS and other forces across the country will care. If you're anything else - indigenous or poor or black or mentally ill or engaged in "risky" behaviour (which could be anything from being a sex worker to substance abuse) - good luck. There's a reason for the MMIWG.

Couldn't have said it better myself. If anyone here has experience being from a vulnerable or marginalized population, you'll know what we are talking about. This isn't an isolated issue. It runs deep, it's systemic, and it's nationwide across multiple jurisdictions and levels of LE.

 

[JDG]

I think the issue is, a missing persons case is not yet a crime. I haven't looked for stats, but most often it's either suicide, an accident or someone walking away from their life and not wanting to be found.

And, as police frequently say, it's not a crime to run away/leave your family, or even kill yourself, and it's nobodies business why, especially not the police.

We all have a fundamental right to personal privacy, enshrined in legislation. My spouse, my mother, don't own my personal information, unless I'm proved to be dead .

Privacy legislation means, unless it's potentially evidence in a crime, police aren't allowed to take someone's computer and rummage around for details of their private life. Police can use their powers to monitor financial transactions, online presence and phone use, but exclusively for the purpose of locating the missing person to do a welfare check. Not to figure out the details of their private life.

Thank you. You just took the words out of my mouth, just posting to say EXACTLY that. Merci

 

[519er]

Couldn't have said it better myself. If anyone here has experience being from a vulnerable or marginalized population, you'll know what we are talking about. This isn't an isolated issue. It runs deep, it's systemic, and it's nationwide across multiple jurisdictions and levels of LE.

C.mon people.. this thread is about finding Andrew Kinsman and others ... This is totally offtopic, repetitious and not useful on this forum. There are better places for the topic above. I'm new here but finding these posts very disheartening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JDG]

Yeah, I agree with this in the sense that it's likely what complicates things. However, it's my belief that these are the policies, procedures, and provisions that need revision. While privacy legislation is important, it's a tricky thing to navigate when we're talking about missing people. Folks often go missing, and are found, show up, make contact, die by suicide, or die by accident. I don't refute that. But for the folks that don't, for LE to say that people can go missing on their own accord and it's not a crime to do so, I challenge that statement. I don't believe that it's actually common for people to just up and abandon their lives without a single trace of digital footprint. Jmo.

When you report someone missing, you are asked if you suspect 'foul play'. Everyone of us has the right to walk away, without interference, unless/until it is known to be a crime (once we are 'of age'). I agree that people leave digital footprints but that is where their privacy kicks in and unless there is reason to believe a crime has happened, that digital footprint is their property/knowlege only. IMO

I am very upset at all of this too but I place ALL of the blame on the monster who has hunted men, apparently for years. IMO

 

[Grey-St]

C.mon people.. this thread is about finding Andrew Kinsman and others ... This is totally offtopic, repetitious and not useful on this forum. There are better places for the topic above. I'm new here but finding these posts very disheartening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I certainly apologize if you feel that way, I'm happy to move along. But the discussion is related to new developments in the Bruce McArthur case.

 

[Grey-St]

When you report someone missing, you are asked if you suspect 'foul play'. Everyone of us has the right to walk away, without interference, unless/until it is known to be a crime (once we are 'of age'). I agree that people leave digital footprints but that is where their privacy kicks in and unless there is reason to believe a crime has happened, that digital footprint is their property/knowlege only. IMO

I am very upset at all of this too but I place ALL of the blame on the monster who has hunted men, apparently for years. IMO

Rbbm. As do I. Like I said, when the time is right, my hope is that these issues can be addressed. That's all.

 

[dotr]

Bruce McArthur barred from Gay Village as part of sentence for 2001 assault

Accused killer also prohibited from spending time with male prostitutes after assaulting a man with metal pipe almost 15 years ago.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...age-as-part-of-sentence-for-2001-assault.html

OMG

So now we know this person has shown violence as far back as 2001, scary, sickening and worrisome.
How many before 2001?!
Wondering if it is only men he is violent towards, or if he has also attacked trans persons?
Could it be possible/likely, that prior to the perp's access to possible " dumping grounds " through his landscaping, that people were murdered and left wherever they were found?

Thinking of unsolved cases of trans sex workers like Cassandra Do. imo, speculation.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?301025-Canada-Cassandra-Do-32-Toronto-25-August-2003&highlight=Cassandra
Cassandra Do, 32, Toronto, 25 August 2003
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...hes-Jul-80&highlight=transgender+unidentified
[h=2]Markham, Ont, WhtMale 1084UMON, 20-40, female clothes, Jul'80[/h]

 

[AddyFinch]

I think the issue is, a missing persons case is not yet a crime. I haven't looked for stats, but most often it's either suicide, an accident or someone walking away from their life and not wanting to be found.

And, as police frequently say, it's not a crime to run away/leave your family, or even kill yourself, and it's nobodies business why, especially not the police.

We all have a fundamental right to personal privacy, enshrined in legislation. My spouse, my mother, don't own my personal information, unless I'm proved to be dead .

Privacy legislation means, unless it's potentially evidence in a crime, police aren't allowed to take someone's computer and rummage around for details of their private life. Police can use their powers to monitor financial transactions, online presence and phone use, but exclusively for the purpose of locating the missing person to do a welfare check. Not to figure out the details of their private life.

Exactly !

 

[Grey-St]

So now we know this person has shown violence as far back as 2001, scary, sickening and worrisome.
How many before 2001?!
Wondering if it is only men he is violent towards, or if he has also attacked trans persons?
Could it be possible/likely, that prior to the perp's access to possible " dumping grounds " through his landscaping, that people were murdered and left wherever they were found?

Thinking of unsolved cases of trans sex workers like Cassandra Do. imo, speculation.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?301025-Canada-Cassandra-Do-32-Toronto-25-August-2003&highlight=Cassandra
Cassandra Do, 32, Toronto, 25 August 2003
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...hes-Jul-80&highlight=transgender+unidentified
Markham, Ont, WhtMale 1084UMON, 20-40, female clothes, Jul'80

Cassandra Do's murder specifically is the direct timeframe we're looking at regarding BM's conviction. The truly disheartening thing here is the potential depth this case has. It feels endless.