Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Ricochet]

:waitasec:I think the shock therapy thing was more of a sarcastic idea.

Hmmm.... Maybe Not!!

IMO her memory doesn't need to be 'jogged'.

What if.....she had ect, and since it causes memory loss she forgets the "I don't know" answer?

:floorlaugh:

 

[LambChop]

Electric shock therapy maybe? Her fog is an excuse but I believe she may have shocked even herself after realizing how brutally she stabbed him. She prefers not to recall that part.

She is faking. She has made a number of slips. One was the bullet casing. If she were in a fog how would she know how the bullet casing got on top of the blood? She remembers it all. She also gave us a prevue of what happened by telling Flores the ninja story. jmo

 

[danzn16]

She is faking. She has made a number of slips. One was the bullet casing. If she were in a fog how would she know how the bullet casing got on top of the blood? She remembers it all. She also gave us a prevue of what happened by telling Flores the ninja story. jmo

How did she say the casing got on top of the blood? Missed that! And very interested to hear her explanation!

 

[HMSHood]

just for clarification I'm a guy.

I've only seen about 10 minutes of her testimony, but if her demeanor has remained relatively consistent throughout then I really question bpd. We're emotional, and from what I saw she seemed to together, albeit bizarre, to be borderline. I'd expect more hostility/anger from her if she was borderline.

While I don't find the murder amusing, I did find what was taking place between her and the prosecutor to be highly amusing. My sense is she was ****ing around with him and he knew what she was doing. Rather than fall into the trap of becoming argumentative/combative with her he rolled with the flow.

It's like the prosecutor wants her to go right, and she wants to go left. Rather than fight her by trying to get her to go right, he chooses to go left with her and do it her way and by doing that he defeats what she is trying to accomplish.

I only saw 10 minutes, but that's what I was thinking.

More power to you. I rarely hear about males having BPD. Some people think Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader has BPD. :floorlaugh:

 

[STEADFAST]

How did she say the casing got on top of the blood? Missed that! And very interested to hear her explanation!

She didn't explain that.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

FWIW when I was younger I experienced trauma. Not as bad as some of this I am sure. However, i can recall with clarity the events of that time. I have the in years following tried to forget. Jodi having no memory yet driving on highways and making out with a man following the events impossible. Discussion on this threads has been around her criminal record being clear up to this event. Maybe she was never caught doing anything illegal. In her other relationships she was always the one to end it first. Could be wrong about this so some one correct me.
If she is narsist so are many people but they don't murder. Is the narsistivty co-factoid with a personality disorder that makes a lethal mix?

Has anybody seen the movie Being Flynn? I had programmed it to record not knowing anything about it. Last night I watched it and I must say it gets pretty depressing. As I watched, I realized that the character who plays the father, played by Robert De Niro, of the son, whose voice the movie is told through, is a narcissist. The father's diagnosis is never named in the movie but as I watched I realized he was probably a malignant narcissist. He was fascinating to watch. Had I never 'studied' here on WS, I don't think I could have identified a label for what to call him.

The ending is interesting and proof that the human spirit can be somewhat independent of it's circumstances.
I won't say more so not to give too much away.
If I'm not mistaken, this movie is based on the real life experiences of the son.

After the movie ended, I felt overwhelming sympathetic toward children who are born into situations that they have no control over and either have to learn to swim or they'll definitely sink. Normally, a person doesn't go around imagining how bad things can be for some people or thinking about the conditions of their upbringing.

Interestingly, TA apparently had a rough childhood and outwardly he was trying to be better/different. Yet, emotionally people are sometimes drawn to the old stuff/feelings/baggage if they don't work through the damage it caused them first. Hopefully, that reads as I intended it - not blame based but as insight into why he may have kept encouraging JA (who he viewed as someone who was bringing him down) instead of ending it early on.

In the movie, there is a female character who has identified behaviors that are not okay with her; that she will not put up with in another person in her life. In other words, despite her troubled familial background, she had grown emotionally and conducts herself in healthier ways.

This is a great movie to watch about mental health issues.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

She is faking. She has made a number of slips. One was the bullet casing. If she were in a fog how would she know how the bullet casing got on top of the blood? She remembers it all. She also gave us a prevue of what happened by telling Flores the ninja story. jmo

Yes, I agree and said that JA's fog is an excuse. Then I added another thought that she may have even shocked herself by the brutality of her crime. I don't believe that she doesn't remember either. She doesn't want to be sentenced to death so she's not coming completely clean.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

:waitasec:I think the shock therapy thing was more of a sarcastic idea.

IMO her memory doesn't need to be 'jogged'. She has everything set in stone that day. Proof is in her testimony where she suddenly remembers somethings and conveniently forgets somethings.

Yes, that's how I meant it. My writing doesn't convey my tone and I sometimes forget that because I know what I meant!

I believe she remembers but pretends that she doesn't. Imo she feels the killing was justified.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Just a quick clarification: "Shock treatment" (electroconvulsive therapy) actually causes some memory loss and is used, with the patient's informed consent, to help treat depression. The patient is treated with dignity and respect by the team members administering the treatment. The patient is under full anesthesia while a controlled current is applied for just a few seconds, while only the big toe "twitches". Such therapy would not help JA recall anything; it would only give her more credence to chant, "I don't remember."

I think maybe requiring her to view a continuous slideshow of those post mortem photos might better jog her memory. Just my own humble opinion, of course.

I'm reading the posts backwards, which isn't helping! After this post, I'll start over!
Another poster suggested hypnosis and I replied 'or shock therapy'. I wasn't intending to be sarcastic exactly, more of just launching off the idea and writing back to the other poster. No therapy will cause JA to tell the whole truth because she's trying to avoid the death penalty.

It's not legal to give people truth serum or anything like that. Lie detector tests aren't allowed to be used as evidence in court.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Just a quick clarification: "Shock treatment" (electroconvulsive therapy) actually causes some memory loss and is used, with the patient's informed consent, to help treat depression. The patient is treated with dignity and respect by the team members administering the treatment. The patient is under full anesthesia while a controlled current is applied for just a few seconds, while only the big toe "twitches". Such therapy would not help JA recall anything; it would only give her more credence to chant, "I don't remember."

I think maybe requiring her to view a continuous slideshow of those post mortem photos might better jog her memory. Just my own humble opinion, of course.

Just thought of the word that describes how I hoped my original comment about 'shock therapy' would be received ~ now I have to look up how to spell it -lol! ~ Facetious.

Yet, I didn't mean to insult the other poster either. Let me see if I can find some factual info as to why the courts can't coerce information from a perp.

Truth drug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A case about shock therapy ~
http://abcnews.go.com/US/shock-therapy-mental-health-patient-shown-court-video/story?id=16116908

About hyponosis ~
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7737764

No question is a dumb question imo.

 

[Tiger09]

What's creepy to me is her abuse claims that aren't backed up and seem to mirror Travis Alexander's abusive childhood. Fits with her becoming the "Mormon good wife" she thought he wanted. Forgive me, but its commonly referred to in pop culture as a "lady in the streets, but a freak in the sheets." It's like she absorbed TA and when she couldn't have him she consumed him, she became him. It's like a live praying mantis. I see narcissism to the extreme in this, she is not listening to her attorneys at all. I'm sure that her chemical levels have been checked since the state would not risk mistrial and DT would like the excuse of JA had mental issues. So I'm sure she's got a personality disorder, which will be spun into whatever- aliens? I'm sure she's got more lies- she's dangerous.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

JA has changed her reaction today. She is not as arrogrant and using sly smile. She has changed either from defense team or herself. She is presenting herself as meek and timid with the tears on standby.

Watching Jodi in her various interviews, and on the stand, gives me the impression that she is acting, playing the part she thinks is most advantageous at different times. She can seemingly show many different personalities, depending on the situation. Just like a chameleon, she changes according to the immediate need. It is also amazing how she can testify on the stand with such a coolness and confident air about her. She fully believes she can go toe to toe with the experienced prosecutor. Tit for Tat. She quibbles about the most innocuous words. I tire out just watching her. I hope the jury sees through her act...ing.

 

[bodyfx]

Yet, I didn't mean to insult the other poster either. Let me see if I can find some factual info as to why the courts can't coerce information from a perp.


About hyponosis ~
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7737764

No question is a dumb question imo.

Thank-You so much. This is exactly what I was looking for. Still it seems like if a person is caught even once in a lie....they HAVE to undergo forensic hypnosis as a penalty. That would scare someone into REMEMBERING the details and uncover the TRUTH once and for all.

 

[MeeBee]

Electric shock therapy maybe? Her fog is an excuse but I believe she may have shocked even herself after realizing how brutally she stabbed him. She prefers not to recall that part.

I disagree with this. She seems to take a sick glee in recalling what she did. And she remembers everything (see her description of his death in the interrogation room.)

She has been caught sneaking peeks at the autopsy photos (just like Casey Anthony) and said to the detectives she wanted to see the graphic pics out of "morbid curiosity." That is not a normal reaction to learning there are graphic photos of a dead loved one available. It's the last thing I'd want to see.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thank-You so much. This is exactly what I was looking for. Still it seems like if a person is caught even once in a lie....they HAVE to undergo forensic hypnosis as a penalty. That would scare someone into REMEMBERING the details and uncover the TRUTH once and for all.

Problem with that, aside from everyone's constitutional right, is that not everyone can be hypnotized.

If we are gonna throw out the constitution .... I'm all for water boarding and fingernail removal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Watching Jodi in her various interviews, and on the stand, gives me the impression that she is acting, playing the part she thinks is most advantageous at different times. She can seemingly show many different personalities, depending on the situation. Just like a chameleon, she changes according to the immediate need. It is also amazing how she can testify on the stand with such a coolness and confident air about her. She fully believes she can go toe to toe with the experienced prosecutor. Tit for Tat. She quibbles about the most innocuous words. I tire out just watching her. I hope the jury sees through her act...ing.

Anyone watching her spar with JM would think that she thinks they're in competition with each other for their version of events, they are in a way, but no matter what only one of them walks out of the courtroom with their freedom intact .. the other is headed for LWOP or the needle. I feel like screaming at the monitor .. YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE ON TRIAL HERE JODI!!!! I don't think she gets her position in life as bottom rung on the ladder yet, I wish to god she would!

 

[hindsight2020]

I read on wikipedia that Travis' dad (Gary Alexander) died on his 20th birthday, note the 20 Iris flowers JA sent to his paternal grandmother were sent on Travis' 30th birthday, weird, since it seems JA was into 'symbology'.

There was a greek goddess by the name of Iris.

Iris is the Greek goddess for the Messenger of Love, her sacred
flower is considered the symbol of communication and messages.
Greek men would often plant an iris on the graves of their beloved
women as a tribute to the goddess Iris, whose duty it was to
take the souls of women to the Elysian fields.

Elysian Fields: in Greek mythology, the final resting places of the souls of the heroic and the virtuous.

Other traits/symbols of the flower: The irises three main petals are symbolic for faith, valor, and wisdom, white ones are a symbol of purity.

I think there was a message in the number 20 and kind of flower sent. Maybe someone else can add to this or have some another theory. I don't think it was coincidence.

I gather we can add this to the list of things we will never know.:what:

 

[bladesama]

First off, i find it quite amusing that whenever someone kills another, when ever someone commits a crime, acts different, whatever the case. everyone thinks they have mental disorder. is it not possible that jodi and others in fact do not have disorders? after all, since she underwent a psychological evaluation, why is it not brought up in trial? neither by the defense, or the proscution. There has to be a reason for this, either her evaluation has part that work against the prosecution and parts work against her defense, or there is nothing really notable about her evaluation at all.

just because someone is capable of lying very well, is able to manipulate others, or to commit heinous acts does not mean whatsoever that they have any mental condition at all. In fact if i was to analyze anyone who posts on this forum, i bet i could come to the conclusion that you all have mental disorders. The fact is, with every disorder, absolutely everyone has those personality traits of those you consider to have such a disorder, even those you consider normal. So i completely disregard pretty much every comment in here that suggests something like, ohh she must have BPD, oh she is narcissist etc. because the fact is, we all have those traits, some more then others but more often then not, it is a learned aspect of their life.

i could grow up in a poor family, have 10 brothers and sisters. my parents might work constantly to put food on the table so there is not much time for cleaning. basically i could live in a pig sty from a very young age. when i am an adult, do you think i know any different? no because this was my life for many years, as a adult my place might be just as much of a pig sty as when i lived with my parents, it is a learned habit, a familiar enviroment. Some people might grow to hate that part of their life and be able to change it and live clean etc. but for most, they will just live how they know to live. If i could make a comparison, i could grow up, have a decent family but even they have some issues, nice home but am always beat up on by my siblings etc when i go to school i get teased, bullied, never had friends, am constantly in fights etc. by the time i am an adult, i am sure you could imagine that i would not have much social skills because i did not learn them, i would have a different way of thinking, because i did not learn off my peers how to be like everyone else and fit in, i could be sad, angry wondering why i deserved to be treated like this. later in life i could get into a relationship, but because i do not think, talk, act like every other person out there. i will grow to be different to others. my relationship would probably not be stable ( for argument purposes) i would be here wanting to be loved, deserved to be loved i might of found the person i love beyond anyone else, they are all that matters to me ( this is not obsession etc) i could give them my all, and if they used me, they treated me like crap half the time, i was the persons little secret. and as people do in relationships they fight, it gets worse and worse over time usually. the old arguments of few words turn into sparring matches, frustrations build up , it can get physical very quickly and easily. even the most mild and meek person could come to blows in this manner.

now, if i was in that situation, you have been used, abused and looked down upon most of your life, then the one person you love, the one person you gave your everything too, uses you, lies to you, abuses you etc.. eventually it will tip you over the edge.

i don't believe jodi's testimony, i believe she is lying. but this does not mean she has any disorder, it does not mean she is a wack job etc. you have to realise, her life is on the line.. who wouldn't lie to save their own life? as human beings, it is hard wired into out DNA, into every part of our being to survive... if someone tries to kill you, you can get great strength to defend yourself because you are trying to survive, you could kill, you could even eat another human, because you are trying to survive.

i think it is very possible, extremely like that she had this idea in her mind to kill travis, in her mind, her screwed her over, the one person who really meant something to her, used her for sex. she felt like his prostitute. what's the old saying " wam bam thank you maam"? this all she was to travis, well, thats what she felt. and when you are in a relationship, emotionally connected to someone else, how often do you hear people make the statements " when you're in it, its hard to see" or something like this? when your in a relationship with someone, or close to them etc, their actions, words etc impact on us. you could think one way about something while your with them, but months later with no contact, you might think hey.. what the hell, why would i think like this? seems a bit crazy. everyone would of experienced this at some point in their life, probably throughout their entire lives. when you are in a situation you often do not have the luxury to take a step back and think rationally.... it is extremely hard to do when you're emotionally involved, even if you dont feel emotional at the time.. your judgement is clouded, think of it as a form of rose color glasses.

anyway, back to jodi.. i would bet my last dollar that to this very day, she feels somewhat justified with what she did, although i do believe she is probably tormented inside because of it. this in itselt can cause you to lack emotional and especially be able to show it. this could explain her actions on the stand. she is expected to be emotional, but what if she blocks it out.. if she doesnt cry she is cold blooded, if she cries you think she is putting it on?

i am not defending her actions, although i do believe she felt somewhat justified, he paid the price for screwing her over.

a lot of people think she told no truth at all, i believe there is truth in every story. liars twist the truth for their own agenda, and when facing the death penalty, wouldn't you?.

i compare what she says now, to what she says in her previous interviews, especially the one when she talks about the intruders, as opposed to what she has said recently. It is very very difficult to lie, to make up stories and maintain that lie a long time. HOWEVER, it is not hard at all to twist a few truths and keep the main part the same as what happened in reality. this is what jodi is doing, only a few aspects of her story have changed from the intruder story, to what she says now. meaning, a lot of what she is saying, is the truth, she just changed certain parts so she does not look as bad, or is not incriminating herself in some way ( and i am aware she admitted to killing TA). the basic points of the story are the same in both of them, how TA was shot first, she fell to the ground beside bath tub and bumped her head, TA was on all fours next to her screaming in pain ( and it is very possible he did say F***** kill you B***, and i would too if someone shot me in the face). she said in current testimony that he was sorta over her, while she on the floor , and it could be perceived this way as he is right next to her on all floors... she said she got up and ran to the closet etc.

you have to look at this and know that what she has said is technically correct.. this is what happened. perhaps the roles were reversed in some situations, perhaps they weren't.

i believe, she was taking photos of TA in the shower, when he was sitting down in the shower i think they argued and she had a gun, as he got up he prob lunged at her, she fired hitting him in the brow etc, as he slammed into her (breaking her finger) and knocking her to the ground where she hits her head, he started screaming in pain, saying F**** kill you B***, and grabs on her clothes while she on her back, she gets up and runs thinking TA is after her ( which is why he took a long time getting there according to her) she runs into room where knife is, grabs it, runs into the closet and thru the other door leading into the bathroom. by this time travis is still in the bathroom , probably moved over near the sink, where she stabs him in the stomach, which is where he got his defensive wounds, he starts moving as quick as he can into the hall, while she chases after him stabbing him repeatedly in the back until he is down, she slices his throat, rolls him over and stabs him some more times in the chest and lower throat.

this is something she would NOT want jurors to know, instant guilty verdict, but it fits in more with the crime scene and forensic analysis, while fitting also in with the stories she has told now, and previously.

it is not about believing her no more, or whether she is lying, it is about finding the common ground of her stories and weighing it up with evidence from the scene of the crime.


thats my 2 cents anyway

 

[bladesama]

i will also add to her and JM sparring matches in court, a prosecutor, even police will always try to bend their words, in a way, manipulate the defendant to get them to admit things, slip up etc. she knows this, and she has to be very careful what she says. even something innocent he could twist with his words and make it into something that is not an actual reality.

i will give you a story, when i was young i got interviewed by police as i got into a fight, i was heading to a bar with some friends and we walked past someones house who i and another had a problem with. in the end a fight did happen and police interviewed me etc. i did not walk past this guys house to start a fight, i was merely walking past. during the interview the police officer said to me, i put it to you that you went past the house intending to fight, i said thats not true, he said well by walking past the the house, you would have to admit a fight was very likely going to happen. i said no i was going to a bar, i didnt think about it. he said ok, but you admit that walking past the house would have the possibility of a fight true? i had to say well i guess it is possible.

just by this line of questioning, the police were able to twist things in such a way, that i was forced to admit a possibility where a situation did eventuate and they established that had i walked down a different street, it would not of happened, but since i did walk that down street, and i had to say i guess it is possible a fight could of happened had i walked past the guys house. they were able to show just from this that i was liable for the situation which escalated....

it is no different what the prosecutor is doing to jodi, she is just fighting back i guess you could say so he doesnt twist her version of events around on her.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

:twocents:

i will also add to her and JM sparring matches in court, a prosecutor, even police will always try to bend their words, in a way, manipulate the defendant to get them to admit things, slip up etc. she knows this, and she has to be very careful what she says. even something innocent he could twist with his words and make it into something that is not an actual reality.

i will give you a story, when i was young i got interviewed by police as i got into a fight, i was heading to a bar with some friends and we walked past someones house who i and another had a problem with. in the end a fight did happen and police interviewed me etc. i did not walk past this guys house to start a fight, i was merely walking past. during the interview the police officer said to me, i put it to you that you went past the house intending to fight, i said thats not true, he said well by walking past the the house, you would have to admit a fight was very likely going to happen. i said no i was going to a bar, i didnt think about it. he said ok, but you admit that walking past the house would have the possibility of a fight true? i had to say well i guess it is possible.

just by this line of questioning, the police were able to twist things in such a way, that i was forced to admit a possibility where a situation did eventuate and they established that had i walked down a different street, it would not of happened, but since i did walk that down street, and i had to say i guess it is possible a fight could of happened had i walked past the guys house. they were able to show just from this that i was liable for the situation which escalated....

it is no different what the prosecutor is doing to jodi, she is just fighting back i guess you could say so he doesnt twist her version of events around on her.

I agree with you. As I watched the verbal battle between JA and the prosecutor, I imagined Jodi thinking to herself: "He's not going to put words into MY mouth! The only words I speak are MY words." It must have really frustrated her when he demanded so many "YES" or "NO" anwers.