Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Sleuth5]

yeah, it is rather chipper, smiley and cutesy cutesy between the DT and this witness.......makes me sick.

Yes, pass the airsick bags, please. uke:

On the other hand, she is deliberately employing a strategy intended to capitalize on some of the feelings being expressed here regarding JM's aggressive style. After all, some argue that it worked for Jose Baez, so why not give it a go here? It does seem disrespectful to the gravity of the situation, though. Whether they want to claim self-defense or not, she did kill TA, and we have yet to hear evidence sufficient to justify the use of deadly force from any source. Given that, a little less cutesy-pie might be in order. :cow:

 

[slanda]

Hi Everyone

I have been reading everyone's thoughtful responses regarding the theories & psychology regarding JA and even TA. I have also watched the trial everyday. I would just like to point out that this forum has the most objective thoughts and I absolutely cannot read anymore discussions on most public forums because so many words are thrown around and these people seem not to understand or have the capacity to articulate the theories in which they present.

Obviously, TA was brutally killed & no one deserves to be butchered in that way. And what interests me the most is the alchemy between the two of them and how their personalities brought seemingly the worst out of each other. JA had a history of confronting those that crossed her and at the very least, completely immersing herself into the life of the one she's with. TA had a history of being abandoned and abused physically and emotionally and came from a history of addiction. Though he rose himself up through his childhood, it seems as though he became addicted to her. She fed his sexual appetite and she knew it. She clearly had boundary issues and within record time became a Mormon. I believe she is super passive-aggressive and deviant in the way in which she melts into different personas and her blunted affect is so strange and hard to understand. I also think Travis didn't treat her as he would have treated someone he respected.

I apologize for the comparison, but TA reminds me a lot of my ex-husband in so much as my Ex-husband is extremely charming, extremely successful, so absolutely sweet to those who work for him and to those who he doesn't really know. We were together for 8 years and people always told me how lucky I was to have him as my husband, and what an amazing person he was: Little did they know that I finally went to talk to a psychologist about our relationship and he diagnosed me with PTSD and Spousal Abuse Syndrome. I already have had GAD since I was 5, so I'm maybe more sensitive... Anyway, he is an alcoholic and he lies and assumes characters that he thinks people want him to be. We had a horrific cycle of abuse. I thought I was going insane and broke out in rashes and was diagnosed with a form of Lupus. I was constantly so freaked out by him and when he came home from work, I just wanted to die. He controlled all the finances and wouldn't let me work, but complained to all his friends that I was lazy. He even convinced me that I was someone I was not. What I'm trying to say, is that he too led a double life. And it absolutely drove me crazy. I told him once that I wished he could treat me as nice as his employees and I was his wife. He hated his mom. I never met her. He hated most of his family. He has a few close friends, but he's not even honest with them. I always thought that I must have done something wrong because he seemed so nice to everyone but me. But then I figured out it was the exact opposite. Who he was with me was actually who he was. He wasn't the super nice and seemingly loving and thoughtful guy he was with everyone else. He was that nice to me after he hurt me, and I loved that.

Enough about my life. I just kinda see the parallel between TA and my ex regarding the double-life issue. It seems that TA presented himself sooooo differently to others than the way he was with JA. I don't have much, if at all, any compassion for JA because I was never violent and I got away and my ex-husband is still intact and living. But, I do understand how frustrating and confusing it is to be with someone who shows different faces to different people. And it was emotionally abusive for me.

I wish we or someone could figure out JA's PD. I do think she has one. But it's "not otherwise specified" because she demonstrates bits and pieces of many PD's but not one or two most significantly. A co morbidity is, IMO is also relevant when evaluating her, but she's so different, coming up with a sound theory of her personality is difficult.

I have a few questions:

When did TA become a Mormon?

Why can't either side discuss or say the word "Premeditation"?

How many people think she premeditated his murder/or just snapped?

I went through all the blood spatter, studied the realistic sequence of events of his killing/murder, and finally came up with a theory about what I think happened that would "fit" with the forensic analysis... And I will share it if anyone wants to discuss it.

Ok, thanks, and sorry for such a long post but I have been holding this info in, waiting for the right place in which to share my thoughts and kinda personal opinions and theories regarding this case.

 

[slanda]

Sorry. I misunderstood your point as you launched off my post. Nobody responded to whether or not JA was on the original booking to go to Cancun with TA, when she was taken off, etc. Two days ago that piece of info was on the news but I haven't heard much more about it. For instance, had she just found out she was no longer going and had been replaced or had she known that (that her trip was cancelled) weeks prior to June 4?

IMO, if she had just discovered TA's change of plans that no longer included her, that could be what set her off into a rage. The rage could have started back in California when she plotted. Regardless, she was going to show up and confront Travis face-to-face. Were the details of their communications right before June 4 discussed in detail on the stand? I'd like to hear the the prosecution present the minute details of their exchanges beginning two/three days before June 4. The general flavor stuff is one thing but I'd like them to map out how the scorn part developed and led to her premeditating killing TA. In other words, make it easy for me to picture the scenario. So far, the picture is too abstract. Make it micro, not macro. Does this make sense? I don't want them to rely on me to do that, I want them to do it for me - I'm a lazy juror with brain fuzz (not fog, fuzz!)

This has probably been discussed before but I wondered why the news came out with the concrete booking info only two days ago (that JA's name had actually been listed as the person going to Cancun with TA).

From what I ascertained, YES. JA was the original name on the booking ticket. I will look for the source(s) to back this up. :seeya:

 

[SMK]

Yes, but when you have a client who is unwilling to acknowledge any failing and unshakably convinced that she was justified in killing, you could never even broach the possibility of such a defense.

I think her initial determination to defend herself was largely a consequence of wise counsel insisting that she admit to what seemed so apparently obvious from the evidence. She was wholly unwilling to acknowledge that there might be even the least little thing awry with her personality, being that she now imagines herself a sort of Bodhisattva come to reveal great mystical truths to us all. :cow:

Yes. Quite true. And your second paragraph as well. Applying the term, "Narcissist" not from the DSM clinical perspective but from the generally accepted term of old, meaning someone self-absorbed to the point of grandiosity and thus unable to have a grounded and balanced view of themselves, I would say this is due to her narcissism.

 

[SMK]

Hi Everyone

I have been reading everyone's thoughtful responses regarding the theories & psychology regarding JA and even TA. I have also watched the trial everyday. I would just like to point out that this forum has the most objective thoughts and I absolutely cannot read anymore discussions on most public forums because so many words are thrown around and these people seem not to understand or have the capacity to articulate the theories in which they present.

Obviously, TA was brutally killed & no one deserves to be butchered in that way. And what interests me the most is the alchemy between the two of them and how their personalities brought seemingly the worst out of each other. JA had a history of confronting those that crossed her and at the very least, completely immersing herself into the life of the one she's with. TA had a history of being abandoned and abused physically and emotionally and came from a history of addiction. Though he rose himself up through his childhood, it seems as though he became addicted to her. She fed his sexual appetite and she knew it. She clearly had boundary issues and within record time became a Mormon. I believe she is super passive-aggressive and deviant in the way in which she melts into different personas and her blunted affect is so strange and hard to understand. I also think Travis didn't treat her as he would have treated someone he respected.

I apologize for the comparison, but TA reminds me a lot of my ex-husband in so much as my Ex-husband is extremely charming, extremely successful, so absolutely sweet to those who work for him and to those who he doesn't really know. We were together for 8 years and people always told me how lucky I was to have him as my husband, and what an amazing person he was: Little did they know that I finally went to talk to a psychologist about our relationship and he diagnosed me with PTSD and Spousal Abuse Syndrome. I already have had GAD since I was 5, so I'm maybe more sensitive... Anyway, he is an alcoholic and he lies and assumes characters that he thinks people want him to be. We had a horrific cycle of abuse. I thought I was going insane and broke out in rashes and was diagnosed with a form of Lupus. I was constantly so freaked out by him and when he came home from work, I just wanted to die. He controlled all the finances and wouldn't let me work, but complained to all his friends that I was lazy. He even convinced me that I was someone I was not. What I'm trying to say, is that he too led a double life. And it absolutely drove me crazy. I told him once that I wished he could treat me as nice as his employees and I was his wife. He hated his mom. I never met her. He hated most of his family. He has a few close friends, but he's not even honest with them. I always thought that I must have done something wrong because he seemed so nice to everyone but me. But then I figured out it was the exact opposite. Who he was with me was actually who he was. He wasn't the super nice and seemingly loving and thoughtful guy he was with everyone else. He was that nice to me after he hurt me, and I loved that.

Enough about my life. I just kinda see the parallel between TA and my ex regarding the double-life issue. It seems that TA presented himself sooooo differently to others than the way he was with JA. I don't have much, if at all, any compassion for JA because I was never violent and I got away and my ex-husband is still intact and living. But, I do understand how frustrating and confusing it is to be with someone who shows different faces to different people. And it was emotionally abusive for me.

I wish we or someone could figure out JA's PD. I do think she has one. But it's "not otherwise specified" because she demonstrates bits and pieces of many PD's but not one or two most significantly. A co morbidity is, IMO is also relevant when evaluating her, but she's so different, coming up with a sound theory of her personality is difficult.

I have a few questions:

When did TA become a Mormon?

Why can't either side discuss or say the word "Premeditation"?

How many people think she premeditated his murder/or just snapped?

I went through all the blood spatter, studied the realistic sequence of events of his killing/murder, and finally came up with a theory about what I think happened that would "fit" with the forensic analysis... And I will share it if anyone wants to discuss it.

Ok, thanks, and sorry for such a long post but I have been holding this info in, waiting for the right place in which to share my thoughts and kinda personal opinions and theories regarding this case.

Must take time and absorb all of your post, but what did jump out at me was your use of the term, 'alchemy' (I like that ) and your words on your ex-husband:

It is true that sometimes a very handsome, charming , successful man can harbor a dark side or an underbelly which is dank indeed. I like Travis and his death was unprovoked and inexcusable, and I do believe it was a (loosely) premeditated murder which got messier and more out of control than Arias had hoped.

Notwithstanding, there are a few unanswered questions about Travis, which have been discussed and which may stem from his less than ideal start in life - but I also noticed his slurred speech on the phone sex audio - and had wondered if he did drink? ( in secret, as he was not known to)-- or was I hearing wrong? I was struck by it...

I believe TA became a Mormon in his teens, when his grandparents took him into the Church of the Latter Day Saints.

 

[slanda]

And also along the lines of abuse, JA was also extremely abusive to TA, IMO. She stalked him,probably slashed his tires (which is indicative of a physical threat), probably drove him crazy by being passive-aggressive with her demeanor... Since it seems she has threatened suicide so often, maybe she threatened it with TA and maybe that made him have compassion with her?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yikes, I just figured out that court is cancelled for today.

 

[slanda]

Must take time and absorb all of your post, but what did jump out at me was your use of the term, 'alchemy' (I like that ) and your words on your ex-husband:

It is true that sometimes a very handsome, charming , successful man can harbor a dark side or an underbelly which is dank indeed. I like Travis and his death was unprovoked and inexcusable, and I do believe it was a (loosely) premeditated murder which got messier and more out of control than Arias had hoped.

Notwithstanding, there are a few unanswered questions about Travis, which have been discussed and which may stem from his less than ideal start in life - but I also noticed his slurred speech on the phone sex audio - and had wondered if he did drink? ( in secret, as he was not known to)-- or was I hearing wrong? I was struck by it...

I believe TA became a Mormon in his teens, when his grandparents took him into the Church of the Latter Day Saints.

I completely agree with you, which is why I said that my lovely ex-husband is still living.

TA did absolutely nothing to deserve what she did to him. Nothing.

The psychology of it all just interests me. The Alchemy of their toxic relationship.

I think I read where someone asked if he maybe had sexual contact before JA, and most teens do have some, so I was just wondering his age because if he really was a virgin, or close to it, then maybe that's why he was overcome by her sexuality?

Thanks SMK

 

[MeeBee]

Must take time and absorb all of your post, but what did jump out at me was your use of the term, 'alchemy' (I like that ) and your words on your ex-husband:

It is true that sometimes a very handsome, charming , successful man can harbor a dark side or an underbelly which is dank indeed. I like Travis and his death was unprovoked and inexcusable, and I do believe it was a (loosely) premeditated murder which got messier and more out of control than Arias had hoped.

Notwithstanding, there are a few unanswered questions about Travis, which have been discussed and which may stem from his less than ideal start in life - but I also noticed his slurred speech on the phone sex audio - and had wondered if he did drink? ( in secret, as he was not known to)-- or was I hearing wrong? I was struck by it...

I believe TA became a Mormon in his teens, when his grandparents took him into the Church of the Latter Day Saints.

It was very late and he was very tired. I sound exactly like that when I'm tired. He was also putting on a 'sexy' voice.

 

[MeeBee]

I completely agree with you, which is why I said that my lovely ex-husband is still living.

TA did absolutely nothing to deserve what she did to him. Nothing.

The psychology of it all just interests me. The Alchemy of their toxic relationship.

I think I read where someone asked if he maybe had sexual contact before JA, and most teens do have some, so I was just wondering his age because if he really was a virgin, or close to it, then maybe that's why he was overcome by her sexuality?

Thanks SMK

I don't know if he was a virgin, but he was, imo, quite sexually inexperienced. He has an ex-girlfriend testify that they'd never had sex and never asked or pressured her for it. He told Jodi in their recording that he had never masturbated until he met her.

 

[Deleted member 95475]

Hey everyone - I got stuck in a meeting and just got back to my computer (I hate how work gets in the way of my trial watching) anyhow can someone tell me why court was cancelled? TIA!


---Sorry, for this post. I thought I was in another forum, got 2 different windows open and trying to multi-task

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Must take time and absorb all of your post, but what did jump out at me was your use of the term, 'alchemy' (I like that ) and your words on your ex-husband:

It is true that sometimes a very handsome, charming , successful man can harbor a dark side or an underbelly which is dank indeed. I like Travis and his death was unprovoked and inexcusable, and I do believe it was a (loosely) premeditated murder which got messier and more out of control than Arias had hoped.

Notwithstanding, there are a few unanswered questions about Travis, which have been discussed and which may stem from his less than ideal start in life - but I also noticed his slurred speech on the phone sex audio - and had wondered if he did drink? ( in secret, as he was not known to)-- or was I hearing wrong? I was struck by it...

I believe TA became a Mormon in his teens, when his grandparents took him into the Church of the Latter Day Saints.

bbm ~ "not provoked by anything said or done" is part of the definition given (urban dictionary) for the word 'unprovoked'.

Although JA's actions are wrong and inexusable, I'm not certain they were unprovoked. One of TA's friends asked him if he was afraid JA might retaliate in response to his cutting message to her (email?). He called her some vile names and blamed her for behaviors he participated in freely.

If I try to remove a piece of meat from my dog's dish as she is eating it, at the very least she'll bare her teeth. This otherwise sweet tempered labrador could bite my finger off over a bone if I approach her from behind to take it away from her. It is unwise to provoke man's best friend over a bone!

Considering what we know about the relationship between TA and JA, I believe JA was provoked. The price he paid for his misstep is unjust.

 

[MeeBee]

bbm ~ "not provoked by anything said or done" is part of the definition given (urban dictionary) for the word 'unprovoked'.

Although JA's actions are wrong and inexusable, I'm not certain they were unprovoked. One of TA's friends asked him if he was afraid JA might retaliate in response to his cutting message to her (email?). He called her some vile names and blamed her for behaviors he participated in freely.

If I try to remove a piece of meat from my dog's dish as she is eating it, at the very least she'll bare her teeth. This otherwise sweet tempered labrador could bite my finger off over a bone if I approach her from behind to take it away from her. It is unwise to provoke man's best friend over a bone!

Considering what we know about the relationship between TA and JA, I believe JA was provoked. The price he paid for his misstep is unjust.

But we do not know what he was talking about. He said she scammed him and hurt him. This can mean any number of things. We don't know if he was chastising her for things he participated in. Maybe she stole from him. Maybe she threatened to black mail him. He also alludes to a person who knew things about his life that Jodi lied about. I think it stands to reason Travis was provoked at least as much as Jodi (thinks she) was.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I completely agree with you, which is why I said that my lovely ex-husband is still living.

TA did absolutely nothing to deserve what she did to him. Nothing.

The psychology of it all just interests me. The Alchemy of their toxic relationship.

I think I read where someone asked if he maybe had sexual contact before JA, and most teens do have some, so I was just wondering his age because if he really was a virgin, or close to it, then maybe that's why he was overcome by her sexuality?

Thanks SMK

There is another woman who says she had problems with TA. I'm not sure if she took the stand for the defense (as I tuned into the trial late) or if this info is via media news. I believe she testified though. This is an example of not having organized facts versus fiction.

The jury will not be able to use the stalkerish behavior unless there is proof of it presented during the trial.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

But we do not know what he was talking about. He said she scammed him and hurt him. This can mean any number of things. We don't know if he was chastising her for things he participated in. Maybe she stole from him. Maybe she threatened to black mail him. He also alludes to a person who knew things about his life that Jodi lied about. I think it stands to reason Travis was provoked at least as much as Jodi (thinks she) was.

Why don't we know though? That's my point, that the jury needs to be able to make sense of all the evidence. How did she scam him? Why can't anybody find out? Why did he let her back into his house (the jury will wonder why he did). It can't be maybe this or maybe that or we think this or that.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hey everyone - I got stuck in a meeting and just got back to my computer (I hate how work gets in the way of my trial watching) anyhow can someone tell me why court was cancelled? TIA!


---Sorry, for this post. I thought I was in another forum, got 2 different windows open and trying to multi-task

JA reportedly has a migraine. I read that here but have not heard that mentioned on TV. The reason may have something do with the lawyers.

adding ~ some time has gone by and Vinnie on HLN just said that they're trying to find out the reason that court was cancelled today but have not been able to yet. He said they're staying "mum" about the reason.

 

[Donnareit]

Must take time and absorb all of your post, but what did jump out at me was your use of the term, 'alchemy' (I like that ) and your words on your ex-husband:

It is true that sometimes a very handsome, charming , successful man can harbor a dark side or an underbelly which is dank indeed. I like Travis and his death was unprovoked and inexcusable, and I do believe it was a (loosely) premeditated murder which got messier and more out of control than Arias had hoped.

Notwithstanding, there are a few unanswered questions about Travis, which have been discussed and which may stem from his less than ideal start in life - but I also noticed his slurred speech on the phone sex audio - and had wondered if he did drink? ( in secret, as he was not known to)-- or was I hearing wrong? I was struck by it...

I believe TA became a Mormon in his teens, when his grandparents took him into the Church of the Latter Day Saints.

I think the slurred speech was his way of sounding sleepy so Jodi would stop yakking and hang up the phone. Note how she baby talks about him being a tired little boy.

 

[SMK]

And also along the lines of abuse, JA was also extremely abusive to TA, IMO. She stalked him,probably slashed his tires (which is indicative of a physical threat), probably drove him crazy by being passive-aggressive with her demeanor... Since it seems she has threatened suicide so often, maybe she threatened it with TA and maybe that made him have compassion with her?

Yes, and due to his upbringing he almost certainly did not have the tools he needed to defend himself against these types of manipulation. So tragic.

 

[Donnareit]

Why don't we know though? That's my point, that the jury needs to be able to make sense of all the evidence. How did she scam him? Why can't anybody find out? Why did he let her back into his house (the jury will wonder why he did). It can't be maybe this or maybe that or we think this or that.

Rebuttal is yet to come. But I think she had Travis "isolated" when it came to his dealings with her.

 

[SMK]

I think the slurred speech was his way of sounding sleepy so Jodi would stop yakking and hang up the phone. Note how she baby talks about him being a tired little boy.

Ah, ok , yes, that was probably it, then.......Outside his Mormonism he was likely too health conscious to have taken up drinking, thanks for pointing that out....