ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - #10

[LambChop]

ITA, Saracen. We have our share of corruption in the U.S. as well actually, and even though most of the MSM does it's best to try to cover it up, most of still know about it.

It's not uncommon at the local level either. We have a particular out of state vacation place that we visit several times a year, it is like our second home. There has recently been corruption uncovered in their local LE and in the local city board as well. The locals didn't have a clue until a recent murder case was sabotaged by local LE, resulting in major evidence being lost and destroyed. The sabotage was then followed by a lot of secrecy, lies and attempts to cover it up. Very bad for that small community, but everyone is hoping this will stimulate a lot of changes being made.

The local people there are wonderful people, just as I know the Arubans are as well.

You're right, Power and Greed = Corruption. The people don't have the power, the government does. But what can be done when government runs amok, when it becomes too large and too powerful and becomes infiltrated with bad people who have their own agenda and their own interests in mind.

It is pretty common everywhere. More so in small communities that have been established for years where the older families have some political control and are reluctant to give it over to the newer community members. It takes money to get into any political office today....unless it's a dog catcher. lol

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Based on this, i think I am wrong



Company directors who are not born in Aruba nor have the dutch nationality need to apply for a director’s license at the Department of Economic Affairs.

http://www.arubachamber.com/business-in-aruba/helpful-tips-for-entrepreneurs

Maybe Not wrong:

According to the link you provided, under "Establishing a Business in Aruba"

In order to establish a Limited Liability Company you need a VBA --get this!

the "Vennootschap met Beperkle Aansprakelijkhen:what: (VBA) Hope I spelled that right, never saw that many letters in one word.
This VBA must be represented by at least one managing director at all times, and at least one of those directors, or legal representative must be a resident of Aruba. Maybe that is what you were talking about?

Anywayto Lambchop
--My point was the statement "you must hire an Aruban"(pay his salary,health insurance, workers comp, social security or the Aruban equivalent of these)......and that Aruban does not HAVE to work! That just sounds really squirrely to me. The "business going up in smoke" was a metaphor.:sigh:

 

[HauntsForHope]

Poor Robyn, likely sold into sexual slavery, drug addicted and moved out of the country, half a world away. So far out of our reach....where is HALO ?

 

[LambChop]

Poor Robyn, likely sold into sexual slavery, drug addicted and moved out of the country, half a world away. So far out of our reach....where is HALO ?

What evidence do you base this on????

 

[LambChop]

Maybe Not wrong:

According to the link you provided, under "Establishing a Business in Aruba"

In order to establish a Limited Liability Company you need a VBA --get this!

the "Vennootschap met Beperkle Aansprakelijkhen:what: (VBA) Hope I spelled that right, never saw that many letters in one word.
This VBA must be represented by at least one managing director at all times, and at least one of those directors, or legal representative must be a resident of Aruba. Maybe that is what you were talking about?

Anywayto Lambchop
--My point was the statement "you must hire an Aruban"(pay his salary,health insurance, workers comp, social security or the Aruban equivalent of these)......and that Aruban does not HAVE to work! That just sounds really squirrely to me. The "business going up in smoke" was a metaphor.:sigh:

Aruba has no SS system or workers' comp. There are no pensions that I know of. Not even sure they have to pay anything other than their salaries. But your metaphor was dealth with a threat of danger re: "up in smoke". And this is not the case. They are bound by an agreement with the government. If they do not agree they just would not be able to do business in Aruba. Pretty much the same as everywhere else you go. It's a legal binding agreement. No one holds a gun to your head and tells you, you have to do this, you agree to do it prior to ever opening your business.

Also, have you ever heard of a business hiring someone and that person avoids doing any type of real work at all. They try to look busy but they aren't really doing anything productive. It's the same there. The majority of the Arubans are hard workers....some, not so much. And as I said it may have been the merchant's decision not to let this person do any actual sales because of the merchandise that was being sold. Not that they did not trust them but because they had no real sales experience.

It is just a different way of doing business than this country. The Dutch protect their own and the Arubans have followed along in the same manner of how they conduct business with foreign nationals. It's their island and no one is obligated to visit and spend their money. However the foreign merchants are banking on the fact that you will. Obviously these merchants are not running at a loss or they would not still be there. jmo

 

[Dushi]

I really don't know what kind of government pension system is in place

My hotel is union, so when employees retire, there is a pension, also sick leave etc.

I expect its like most places, it depends on the type of job you have

I have a friend who works at the Marriott in the office who is ill and her employer takes care of long term salary etc

 

[Dushi]

Maybe Not wrong:

According to the link you provided, under "Establishing a Business in Aruba"

In order to establish a Limited Liability Company you need a VBA --get this!

the "Vennootschap met Beperkle Aansprakelijkhen:what: (VBA) Hope I spelled that right, never saw that many letters in one word.
This VBA must be represented by at least one managing director at all times, and at least one of those directors, or legal representative must be a resident of Aruba. Maybe that is what you were talking about?

Anywayto Lambchop
--My point was the statement "you must hire an Aruban"(pay his salary,health insurance, workers comp, social security or the Aruban equivalent of these)......and that Aruban does not HAVE to work! That just sounds really squirrely to me. The "business going up in smoke" was a metaphor.:sigh:

No disrespect to Lambchop but that can't possibly be right!!
People would line up for those jobs, a salary for nothing

YES! that is how it was explained to me

 

[Dushi]

Aruba has no SS system or workers' comp. There are no pensions that I know of. Not even sure they have to pay anything other than their salaries. But your metaphor was dealth with a threat of danger re: "up in smoke". And this is not the case. They are bound by an agreement with the government. If they do not agree they just would not be able to do business in Aruba. Pretty much the same as everywhere else you go. It's a legal binding agreement. No one holds a gun to your head and tells you, you have to do this, you agree to do it prior to ever opening your business.

Also, have you ever heard of a business hiring someone and that person avoids doing any type of real work at all. They try to look busy but they aren't really doing anything productive. It's the same there. The majority of the Arubans are hard workers....some, not so much. And as I said it may have been the merchant's decision not to let this person do any actual sales because of the merchandise that was being sold. Not that they did not trust them but because they had no real sales experience.

It is just a different way of doing business than this country. The Dutch protect their own and the Arubans have followed along in the same manner of how they conduct business with foreign nationals. It's their island and no one is obligated to visit and spend their money. However the foreign merchants are banking on the fact that you will. Obviously these merchants are not running at a loss or they would not still be there. jmo

In my small business, they would be let go
They are not an asset, they are a liability

 

[LambChop]

In my small business, they would be let go
They are not an asset, they are a liability

I don't know. Does not seem to bother the merchant any. But as I said there may be a reason they do not push them into selling their merchandise. May even be a smart business decision. They can show up for work but the merchants don't want them knowing anything about the business, how it is run and the amount of money taken in daily, etc. Plus I don't think these are long term positions because they are constantly changing people. Sort of "unemployment compensation" Aruban style. Who knows?

I do love going there every year but would not live there permanently. At least in this country anyone can be a foreign national and chances are you would never know it unless they told you. Americans are such a mixture that they are not easily identified until they open their mouths and some of those accents give them away. lol jmo

 

[neesaki]

Poor Robyn, likely sold into sexual slavery, drug addicted and moved out of the country, half a world away. So far out of our reach....where is HALO ?

What evidence do you base this on????

I have looked at this case in every way that I can and my opinion has changed several times, and really I never know fully what I do believe.

The problem is that we have no real or solid evidence. All we have is a mysterious and suspicious disappearance and a very suspicious character, GG that is the prime suspect in her disappearance.

That's why, for me, it could go either way. At this point, I think it's just as possible that Robyn was sold as it is that she was drowned by accident or murdered. This, because of the lack of evidence that she is dead.

 

[neesaki]

I just don't see how we can keep this forum from going cold like Robyn's case seems to be if we just continue to rehash all the same points and theories that we have several times already .

The thing is, we here on this forum most likely care more about Robyn and this case than any LE does. There is more than one possibility as to what happened to her, and I just think if we want to keep this forum alive we have to be willing to examine and explore new avenues and theories on her disappearance.
My opinions are not cut in stone at all. I just want to look at every possibility.

 

[LambChop]

I just don't see how we can keep this forum from going cold like Robyn's case seems to be if we just continue to rehash all the same points and theories that we have several times already .

The thing is, we here on this forum most likely care more about Robyn and this case than any LE does. There is more than one possibility as to what happened to her, and I just think if we want to keep this forum alive we have to be willing to examine and explore new avenues and theories on her disappearance.
My opinions are not cut in stone at all. I just want to look at every possibility.

I think we have beaten the horse to death. It is true. There just is no real evidence to prove she died and this is why the judge let him go. No evidence to prove she left the island. The only evidence they have is GG's statement that is inconsistent with the facts that LE does know. Unless something new becomes known there is not much left to talk about. jmo

 

[Sapphire]

[/B]



No disrespect to Lambchop but that can't possibly be right!!
People would line up for those jobs, a salary for nothing

YES! that is how it was explained to me

I found this in relation to an employer (investor) hiring employees.

Guide to Doing Business in Aruba

<snip>

4.2 Employment regulations in relation to investors

In general the government has a policy that if there are nationals of the country that have the skills and the qualifications an investor is looking for, the investor should hire a national instead of a foreigner.

<snip>

http://www.lexmundi.com/Document.asp?DocID=2050#page15

 

[Tugela]

Foreigner's who own businesses in Aruba have to employ an Aruban, from my understanding of what I have been told by a number of merchants. The Aruban does not have to do anything if they choose not to. They can just sit there all day in a shop and not lift a finger to do anything, it's there choice. Most of them do physical work for their employers but they are not obligated to do so. I don't consider that corruption it's just a way to guarantee all Arubans have jobs.

Well, foreigners in the US have to employ US residents as well. I am sure that they would love to ship up a boatload of Mexicans who will work for nothing, but the law doesnt allow them to, it chooses instead to protect American jobs for Americans.

Not any different in Aruba.

 

[Sapphire]

Well, foreigners in the US have to employ US residents as well. I am sure that they would love to ship up a boatload of Mexicans who will work for nothing, but the law doesnt allow them to, it chooses instead to protect American jobs for Americans.

Not any different in Aruba.

Not necessarily. In my area, the foreigners hire their own kind and the Americans are on the unemployment line.

 

[LambChop]

Not necessarily. In my area, the foreigners hire their own kind and the Americans are on the unemployment line.

I think it depends on the size of the company, doesn't it and whether or not they are employing family members? Plus if those "foreigners" they are hiring are, in fact, American citizens they have complied with the law. jmo

 

[Sapphire]

I think it depends on the size of the company, doesn't it and whether or not they are employing family members? Plus if those "foreigners" they are hiring are, in fact, American citizens they have complied with the law. jmo

Usually it's smaller businesses, hiring family and friends that are not American citizens. Their staff includes only those of their ethnic backgrounds.

 

[LambChop]

Usually it's smaller businesses, hiring family and friends that are not American citizens. Their staff includes only those of their ethnic backgrounds.

But that does not mean they are not American citizens. How would you know? jmo

 

[Dushi]

I can't see cuts or scratches on his shins
If they are there, they must have been very small and faint

This same male witness told police that he saw blood on the beach, saying, "The spot was the size of the opening of a plastic cup. I saw that the man had a cut on his right shin. I immediately heard him say, 'No...that's my girlfriend, I wouldn't kill her,'" according to the police report.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/aruba-murder-suspect-gary-giordano-calm-scratches-throat/story?id=14410923

 

[Dushi]

Aruba has no SS system or workers' comp. There are no pensions that I know of. Not even sure they have to pay anything other than their salaries. But your metaphor was dealth with a threat of danger re: "up in smoke". And this is not the case. They are bound by an agreement with the government. If they do not agree they just would not be able to do business in Aruba. Pretty much the same as everywhere else you go. It's a legal binding agreement. No one holds a gun to your head and tells you, you have to do this, you agree to do it prior to ever opening your business.

Also, have you ever heard of a business hiring someone and that person avoids doing any type of real work at all. They try to look busy but they aren't really doing anything productive. It's the same there. The majority of the Arubans are hard workers....some, not so much. And as I said it may have been the merchant's decision not to let this person do any actual sales because of the merchandise that was being sold. Not that they did not trust them but because they had no real sales experience.

It is just a different way of doing business than this country. The Dutch protect their own and the Arubans have followed along in the same manner of how they conduct business with foreign nationals. It's their island and no one is obligated to visit and spend their money. However the foreign merchants are banking on the fact that you will. Obviously these merchants are not running at a loss or they would not still be there. jmo

Info about PFTSA
PFTSA was founded in 1992 on the initiative of AHATA and the FTA, as they both shared the same vision for the need to create a pension plan which would provide workers in the tourism industry with additional income after retirement on top of the general old age pension provided by the government.


http://www.pftsa.com/pftsa/


Residents in Aruba are already eligible for the old age pension which offers an entitlement of maximum $1000 dollar for a married couple and $558 for a single person when they reach the age of 60. Only the public sector and a limited number of private companies currently provide supplemental retirement schemes for their employees. The introduction of the general pension plan for all workers will be an add-on to the old age pension and is surely positive for the social development of Aruba, taking into account the rapidly aging population posing considerable challenges for the near future.

http://www.arubachamber.com/downloa...-protocol-for-a-general-pension-plan-in-aruba