ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 7

[ziggy]

Gary on Geraldo: observations...he had his sneakers on while snorkeling, but when he was caught on surv. tape his tennies look white and dry??? Jose Baez tells him he's giving too much detail...isn't that a sign of lying? Then he slips and says when there was nobody on the beach he went and found a "witness" oops.
I apologize if this is old news and you super sleuthers already discusses

 

[Nova]

If two impaired people go swimming and one drowns, is the other automatically responsible? Robyn is/was an adult ... made her own decisions about what she ingested, made her own decisions about what she did and I simply cannot see how anyone would be responsible for her choices.

I've already listed just a few facts that might create criminal culpability.

If you are also asking about civil liability, then I believe that would depend on how much the surviving party knew and how much coercion he used to get her into the water.

Yes, if the fact are as simple as each party drank 3 drinks and went swimming, where one of them got into trouble and drowned, I don't see the civil liability (which isn't to say some lawyer won't try to file suit).

But we have oddities in this case such as the taking of sleeping medication (voluntary or involuntary?) and the odd choice of swimming location that may serve to complicate issues of civil liability.

(JUST TO BE CLEAR: I have never criticized the Aruban or Dutch legal systems just for being different from the American or English systems. At this point, I have no reason to doubt the judge who ruled that LE doesn't have enough evidence to hold GG and try him.)

 

[dizzychick]

I caught this show as it is already halfway over but I heard gary say

1. he had flippers but she didnt then he said he had tennis shoes on and they got wet and caused trouble, so which was it? flipper or shoes?

2. he said she was barefoot and both had masks, but he took in water in his nose; you dont get water in your nose when you have a mask on;

3. later he said he got water in his eyes and he wears contacts, again no water in eyes if your wearing a mask...hummmmmmmm

4. flippers for him and not her gives him a great advantage as anyone who uses them knows you have much more power and this might have been intentional

are we allowed to speculate?

 

[ziggy]

I am most disturbed that I now have to be subjected to Jose Baez if I want coverage of this case And I would not put it past Jose to be completely and totally unethical.

 

[Nova]

I caught this show as it is already halfway over but I heard gary say

1. he had flippers but she didnt then he said he had tennis shoes on and they got wet and caused trouble, so which was it? flipper or shoes?

2. he said she was barefoot and both had masks, but he took in water in his nose; you dont get water in your nose when you have a mask on;

3. later he said he got water in his eyes and he wears contacts, again no water in eyes if your wearing a mask...hummmmmmmm

are we allowed to speculate?

I can't speak for GG on that day, but in my experience no swimming mask is really water tight. It would be quite possible that he got water in his eyes, at least, and also nose, depending on the design of the mask.

But I will also add that if I got into trouble in the ocean, the first think I would do is rip off my mask and snorkel. A snorkel isn't SCUBA equipment; it merely allows you to breath without lifting your face from the water and, as I said, it is subject to frequent leaks. The last thing I would want if I were in trouble is to be encumbered by a snorkel or face mask.

 

[dizzychick]

I can't speak for GG on that day, but in my experience no swimming mask is really water tight. It would be quite possible that he got water in his eyes, at least, and also nose, depending on the design of the mask.

But I will also add that if I got into trouble in the ocean, the first think I would do is rip off my mask and snorkel. A snorkel isn't SCUBA equipment; it merely allows you to breath without lifting your face from the water and, as I said, it is subject to frequent leaks. The last thing I would want if I were in trouble is to be encumbered by a snorkel or face mask.

not mine. I spit on the lense to make the fog go away and press it creates a water tight seal that is the purpose of a mask

 

[LambChop]

So ... Arubans "protect their own" and are negligent because they don't prosecute the companion of a 35 woman that may have drowned?

That is not what I said. But I do feel if you are a tourist they figure you will be leaving the island and they let small stuff slide. While it's not small to the tourist it just another day dealing with an American to them. They did exactly what their law requires, nothing more, nothing less. I still say they are glad to be rid of GG.

Also they were working with the FBI. At what level and to what degree we don't know but I bet we are about to find out. I don't see anything wrong with the Aruban legal system. It's just harder to make a case there on circumstancial evidence. That's good news for the perp. jmo

 

[ziggy]

I caught this show as it is already halfway over but I heard gary say

1. he had flippers but she didnt then he said he had tennis shoes on and they got wet and caused trouble, so which was it? flipper or shoes?

2. he said she was barefoot and both had masks, but he took in water in his nose; you dont get water in your nose when you have a mask on;

3. later he said he got water in his eyes and he wears contacts, again no water in eyes if your wearing a mask...hummmmmmmm

are we allowed to speculate?

I noticed that too. He said he had flippers for him but not for her, then he left his shoes on? Who does that? It's odd. And they both have fake hair so how does that work? Is it a hair club for men you leave on? Could they have tested it to see if salt water was in his "hair"?

And the boyfriend brings up a good point: she already had her hair and make up done, she was afraid of the ocean and would not have gone in the water at 5:00 p.m.!!!

Geraldo at least brought up the "unusually prudent" acts of Gary in getting Robyn to sign that travel insurance.

And having his kids behind him for each interview? Pure Baez; are you going to ask about the friends with benefits relationship etc. with the young men there?

Than Jose is on the phone and won't answer the questions - he just attacks the ex boyfriend and schools him on defamation and threatens him to be quiet or reports will be released.

Jose Baez is a scum sucking bad guy.

 

[Nova]

I am most disturbed that I now have to be subjected to Jose Baez if I want coverage of this case And I would not put it past Jose to be completely and totally unethical.

I hope it was clear above that I wasn't saying Baez is ethical; I was saying that the unethical behavior attributed to him was too stupid to contemplate. (I don't mean the poster was stupid; I mean that a lawyer would be stupid to try that behavior)

Baez would at least be a little more clever about what he said to this client.

 

[Nova]

That is not what I said. But I do feel if you are a tourist they figure you will be leaving the island and they let small stuff slide. While it's not small to the tourist it just another day dealing with an American to them. They did exactly what their law requires, nothing more, nothing less. I still say they are glad to be rid of GG.

Also they were working with the FBI. At what level and to what degree we don't know but I bet we are about to find out. I don't see anything wrong with the Aruban legal system. It's just harder to make a case there on circumstancial evidence. That's good news for the perp. jmo

That could probably be said of most resort areas, LC, so I see what you mean.

 

[ziggy]

I hope it was clear above that I wasn't saying Baez is ethical; I was saying that the unethical behavior attributed to him was too stupid to contemplate. (I don't mean the poster was stupid; I mean that a lawyer would be stupid to try that behavior)

Baez would at least be a little more clever about what he said to this client.

Nova you are confusing stupid with arrogant!!! He is THAT arrogant. He thinks he's 10 feet tall and bullet proof now.

 

[Nova]

not mine. I spit on the lense to make the fog go away and press it creates a water tight seal that is the purpose of a mask

I know that's the goal; I've never gotten one to work consistently. Maybe the bone structures of our faces are different. (Believe me I've tried: my eyes are react very strongly to salt or chlorine, so I can't see underwater without a mask.)

My point was just that a mask is no guarantee that a swimmer won't have water in his eyes or nose.

 

[seabass]

On Geraldo, when asked if he was still going to try to collect the insurance money, GG contemplated (or pretended to) the question for a few seconds before answering that he didn't know. Jose piped in saying that was "the furthest thing from my client's mind". If that was the case, why didn't Gary say that himself? That is the furthest thing from my mind! Certainly would have made it sound like less of a motive. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed, by any means.

 

[Peliman]

He might be culpable if he put something in her drink that compromised her judgment.

He might be if he tampered with her snorkeling equipment.

He might be if he used force to get her into the water against her will.

These are just off the top of my head; there may be other sets of facts where he would be legally guilty of murder.

I agree that if they both drank voluntarily and it later turned out that her alcohol consumption accidentally contributed to her drowning, then it's hard to see how he would be guilty of her murder.

Different scenario: Just a question but what if he knew she was impaired and he had just been drinking juice. He hands her the keys to his SUV and she crashes and kills herself. Would he have any liability then?

 

[dizzychick]

Gee I dont understand these subjects speaking up on TV these days? usually the lawyers tell them to button up... this is some kind of new tactic...Sandusky included, in the old days that was a big NO NO

 

[zippitydoda]

Jose Baez threatened RG's BF on Fox, telling him he is close to a defamation suit. BF did not back down. Then Baez tried to threaten him with FBI reports on what happened before the Aurba trip, and again the BF did not back down. BF said why does he always have to have you by his side, why can't he simply speak the truth, and why bring his young sons into this situation. Baez's voice got a bit high pitched and he did not fare well, even with his buddy Geraldo trying his best to help him out.

 

[LambChop]

Gee I dont understand these subjects speaking up on TV these days? usually the lawyers tell them to button up... this is some kind of new tactic...Sandusky included, in the old days that was a big NO NO

JB's off his tether. There's no CM, AL, LKB to jerk him back to reality. jmo

 

[otto]

I've already listed just a few facts that might create criminal culpability.

If you are also asking about civil liability, then I believe that would depend on how much the surviving party knew and how much coercion he used to get her into the water.

Yes, if the fact are as simple as each party drank 3 drinks and went swimming, where one of them got into trouble and drowned, I don't see the civil liability (which isn't to say some lawyer won't try to file suit).

But we have oddities in this case such as the taking of sleeping medication (voluntary or involuntary?) and the odd choice of swimming location that may serve to complicate issues of civil liability.

(JUST TO BE CLEAR: I have never criticized the Aruban or Dutch legal systems just for being different from the American or English systems. At this point, I have no reason to doubt the judge who ruled that LE doesn't have enough evidence to hold GG and try him.)

Hopefully a lawyer will stop by and answer your questions.

 

[dizzychick]

The excuse for not needing the money is he is already rich and going to get an inheiratence, well then why take the policy in the 1st place? LOL and then why try to collect before her body is even found....yeah right!

 

[LambChop]

The excuse for not needing the money is he is already rich and going to get an inheiratence, well then why take the policy in the 1st place? LOL and then why try to collect before her body is even found....yeah right!

Is one of his family members planning on dying???? I don't think he is rich....he was complaining about the large mortgage he has on his home. jmo