AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

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  • #721
True.
I think we had assumed that they must have cctv images, otherwise how could they say the woman was in a wheelchair? A teller is unlikely to remember.
But if they have images, does that make it less likely it was HP?
Even if facial features were not clear, you'd think some detail of the wheelchair or something that would serve to identify the woman.
If it could be identified as HP why hasn't she been charged?

She can't be charged for simply appearing on cctv footage in a wheelchair. She will be charged. It's just a matter of time IMO. To quote Des Bray "There is still a lot of material to go through and records to obtain."

https://www.facebook.com/sapolicenews/videos/948059551938054/
 
  • #722
  • #723
  • #724
Makara..

Detectives revealed that a woman in a wheelchair had been pictured impersonating Ms Pearce-Stevenson at the Australian Central Credit Union in Elizabeth in June 2010 and successfully managed to update her banking records.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3339594/

That is the first time I have ever heard of that event being pictured.. could that be true? is that possible? do banks hang on to the CCTV for that long? that's 6 years.... I am truly astonished if that is the case!!..

The banks may well hold onto CCTV footage for any length of time before it is archived. It may not be CCTV footage though. The article stated that she was pictured impersonating Karlie. Did Hazel have to give an up to date photograph of herself along with Karlie's identity documents. Was the photograph on Karlie's driver's license replaced with one of Hazel?
 
  • #725
  • #726
That is an interesting point regarding the CCTV footage. Perhaps someone on here has some first hand experience of businesses that use CCTV. I also can't imagine they would hold onto footage for that length of time. Perhaps (if it is true, which I'm still uncertain of), maybe being digital, it automatically gets kept and stored. But even then, why would you want to keep it for that length of time? It's a bit different from tax, legal records, etc, which may need to be referred back to. Surely CCTV footage for a banking institution would only be useful for a short period of time. Unless there is a robbery or something of that nature (which one would think they'd know about straight away, lol). What other reason would they have to keep it?
 
  • #727
The banks may well hold onto CCTV footage for any length of time before it is archived. It may not be CCTV footage though. The article stated that she was pictured impersonating Karlie. Did Hazel have to give an up to date photograph of herself along with Karlie's identity documents. Was the photograph on Karlie's driver's license replaced with one of Hazel?

By Jove! I think you've got it.

Fake photo ID for Karlie with a pic of Hazel on it. Retained by bank.


http://www.austrac.gov.au/chapter-8-amlctf-record-keeping-obligations

"Retention periods for records under the AML/CTF Act - Summary"

- Records of identification procedures.
For the life of the customer relationship and for seven years after the reporting entity ceases to provide all designated services to the customer.

All IMO other than links and quotes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #728
The banks may well hold onto CCTV footage for any length of time before it is archived. It may not be CCTV footage though. The article stated that she was pictured impersonating Karlie. Did Hazel have to give an up to date photograph of herself along with Karlie's identity documents. Was the photograph on Karlie's driver's license replaced with one of Hazel?

Oh, very good points. I didn't think of that - thanks.
 
  • #729
By Jove! I think you've got it.

Fake photo ID for Karlie with a pic of Hazel on it. Retained by bank.


http://www.austrac.gov.au/chapter-8-amlctf-record-keeping-obligations

"Retention periods for records under the AML/CTF Act - Summary"

- Records of identification procedures.
For the life of the customer relationship and for seven years after the reporting entity ceases to provide all designated services to the customer.

All IMO other than links and quotes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The wording "pictured" is interesting. IMO if it was a CCTV capture of the wheelchair woman, the male who accompanied her (pushing her wheelchair?) would have also been in the footage. There has been no mention of that at this stage. It makes more sense to me that a picture of the wheelchair woman indicates a photograph.
 
  • #730
The wording "pictured" is interesting. IMO if it was a CCTV capture of the wheelchair woman, the male who accompanied her (pushing her wheelchair?) would have also been in the footage. There has been no mention of that at this stage. It makes more sense to me that a picture of the wheelchair woman indicates a photograph.

Absolutely makes perfect sense. We're going to have to start calling you "head sleuther". Very well done.
 
  • #731
By Jove! I think you've got it.

Fake photo ID for Karlie with a pic of Hazel on it. Retained by bank.


http://www.austrac.gov.au/chapter-8-amlctf-record-keeping-obligations

"Retention periods for records under the AML/CTF Act - Summary"

- Records of identification procedures.
For the life of the customer relationship and for seven years after the reporting entity ceases to provide all designated services to the customer.

All IMO other than links and quotes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wouldn't it be great if it was her drivers licence.. however it would have meant that Hazel would have had to visited a Service SA centre (assuming it is a SA license, may be different in NT) to have the license reissued with a new photo. If you report your license as stolen they just issue another one with the same photo on it, however if you transfer from another state, which would be my guess at the reason given in this instance, you have to attend and have a photo taken.

The problem for Hazel is that she is obviously disabled.. and would require special conditions on her license to be noted. It isn't as if she just has something she may be able to hide, such as vision impairment, eplipesy etc.. she is in a wheel chair and only has one leg!
I have attached the current application form for reissue/ application of license in SA . The identity check documents are interesting btw in that they don't have to be photo id.
http://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/17093/MR0205.pdf

Addit: whilst we are on the topic of the identity fraud, one of the most common requests when proving identity to government departments, is the presentation of evidence of current residency ie. usually a Utility bill or bank statement addressed to current address. The perpetrators may have continued to use Karlees address in Alice Springs, but if this was the case they would have had to be able to intercept the mail, because grandma would have twigged to new drivers license arriving in the post with someone elses photo on it. A very dangerous risky thing to do for a few thousand dollars... But this case continues to confuse me.
 
  • #732
The banks may well hold onto CCTV footage for any length of time before it is archived. It may not be CCTV footage though. The article stated that she was pictured impersonating Karlie. Did Hazel have to give an up to date photograph of herself along with Karlie's identity documents. Was the photograph on Karlie's driver's license replaced with one of Hazel?

brilliant!
 
  • #733
Wouldn't it be great if it was her drivers licence.. however it would have meant that Hazel would have had to visited a Service SA centre (assuming it is a SA license, may be different in NT) to have the license reissued with a new photo. If you report your license as stolen they just issue another one with the same photo on it, however if you transfer from another state, which would be my guess at the reason given in this instance, you have to attend and have a photo taken.

The problem for Hazel is that she is obviously disabled.. and would require special conditions on her license to be noted. It isn't as if she just has something she may be able to hide, such as vision impairment, eplipesy etc.. she is in a wheel chair and only has one leg!
I have attached the current application form for reissue/ application of license in SA . The identity check documents are interesting btw in that they don't have to be photo id.
http://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/17093/MR0205.pdf

brilliant.!!!

I put these folks down as the no stone unturned members of the take on authority club. Nothing is too much trouble, and you know, once you've murdered someone, .. or two someones, and then pulled out their Centrelink stuff, and kept Centrelink onside, what's a bank? nothing.. hardly a mornings work, really. I toyed with the idea of them doctoring the licence themselves.. that's possible, but skill is needed there..... so..... maybe not..
 
  • #734
She can't be charged for simply appearing on cctv footage in a wheelchair. She will be charged. It's just a matter of time IMO. To quote Des Bray "There is still a lot of material to go through and records to obtain."

https://www.facebook.com/sapolicenews/videos/948059551938054/

I don't understand what you mean, Makara.
Do you mean you don't think being able to identify her on cctv as the person who impersonated KP at the credit union would be sufficient evidence to charge her with fraud?
Can you think of a reason why she would not be charged if the ID was certain?
What reason could there be to wait and charge her later, if indeed that is what you are suggesting?
I can't see what reason the police would have to delay charging her but I am very interested to know what you or any other readers think might be the reason.
 
  • #735
'The Advertiser can reveal that when Holdom met Ms Pearce-Stevenson in Alice Springs and they started a relationship, he had been working as a car detailer in town. Ms Passmore was recovering from serious injuries sustained in a car crash near Marla in which two of her children were killed. Holdom was the driver. The pair had met through a mutual group, which Ms Harris said shared the attributes of “unfortunate circumstances”.

at least we can know that's why he had an ABN calling himself a 'car detailer'..

This whole relationship of Karlie, and Holdom seemed to move so fast, ... and it was a very short relationship, it seems.. Yet Passmore seems to know Karlie before her accident, hence the pic of Khandalyce at the car show. ( August 2008 ) .

The car accident is on Sept 15 2008 and ( Holdom is , after this date, to all purpose, a single guy as Hazel is in hospital ) Detectives say Karlie was murdered in December 14 /15 2008. . so that is a mere 12 weeks from go to whoa. Twelve weeks ,peoples.

September 15th 2008.. the car accident. . Holdom is the driver, <modsnip> 2 of Hazels children are killed, Hazel is rendered a paraplegic.

It therefore seems that after Sep 15th, Holdum would have joined this 'mutual group', that was formed of people in, or with 'unfortunate circumstances. ' .. I can see why Holdom has joined this group. <modsnip> I don't know what Karlie's 'unfortunate circumstances' would precisely consist of.. single motherhood? family dispute? I don't know.

It is strange that Holdom is , in September, ( although it could be October, I am giving it the longest stretch possible. ) suffering the effects of an 'unfortunate circumstance,' and 12 weeks ( it could be shorter, if he joined this group later) he is murdering Karlie. A fellow sufferer. This whole scenario just has so many questions that could be raised.

If Hazel knew Karlie before the accident, it isn't improbable that he knew Karlie before the accident too, and the meeting at the 'Unfortunate Circumstances ' group was serendipity, a re introduction and a lighting of the spark that convinces Karlie to join Holdum in his travels..

By December 14th 2008.. lets say ,10 weeks into the relationship, just for today's post, it could have been 2 or 3 weeks shorter, Holdom has left his job as a car detailer in Alice Springs as is I don't know what in Canberra, and is residing somewhere in Canberra, Karlie has left Alice, gone to Adelaide, travelled 5,200 kms in November alone at a cost of $620 approx., I don't know about October 2008 , could be the same distance and cost , on a Single Parent's payment, has gone down to Mt Gambier, bought a suitcase, and gone across to Canberra.

And by 12 weeks after the accident that wrecked Hazel, and say, 10 weeks after she is reacquainted with Holdom at the Unfortunates Club, Karlie is dead, and carefully hidden , for years , in the Belanglo Forest, and shortly thereafter, Khandalyce is dead and carefully hidden for years, we know not where at this point in time.

One way to look at this is, Holdom kills two children ( by accident <modsnip>) in September 2008, kills Karlie December 2008 and kills Khandalyce 'a short time after'.. probably late December 2008. That is quite the score, really.


Can you link to this please?

I am curious as to what these 'unfortunate circumstances' are, too. The mind boggles.
 
  • #736
Wouldn't it be great if it was her drivers licence.. however it would have meant that Hazel would have had to visited a Service SA centre (assuming it is a SA license, may be different in NT) to have the license reissued with a new photo. If you report your license as stolen they just issue another one with the same photo on it, however if you transfer from another state, which would be my guess at the reason given in this instance, you have to attend and have a photo taken.

The problem for Hazel is that she is obviously disabled.. and would require special conditions on her license to be noted. It isn't as if she just has something she may be able to hide, such as vision impairment, eplipesy etc.. she is in a wheel chair and only has one leg!
I have attached the current application form for reissue/ application of license in SA . The identity check documents are interesting btw in that they don't have to be photo id.
http://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/17093/MR0205.pdf

Addit: whilst we are on the topic of the identity fraud, one of the most common requests when proving identity to government departments, is the presentation of evidence of current residency ie. usually a Utility bill or bank statement addressed to current address. The perpetrators may have continued to use Karlees address in Alice Springs, but if this was the case they would have had to be able to intercept the mail, because grandma would have twigged to new drivers license arriving in the post with someone elses photo on it. A very dangerous risky thing to do for a few thousand dollars... But this case continues to confuse me.

Excellent points about the driver's licence Visioneye.
You are right that HP would have special conditions on hers, making it so much harder to fake.
And, yep, I agree, it is just crazy to take such risks for a few thousand dollars. I can't see the money being the motive at all.
Personally, I still believe HP thought she was helping Karlie who she thought was alive and was on the run.
I think this also explains why she has not been charged.
 
  • #737
I don't understand what you mean, Makara.
Do you mean you don't think being able to identify her on cctv as the person who impersonated KP at the credit union would be sufficient evidence to charge her with fraud?
Can you think of a reason why she would not be charged if the ID was certain?
What reason could there be to wait and charge her later, if indeed that is what you are suggesting?
I can't see what reason the police would have to delay charging her but I am very interested to know what you or any other readers think might be the reason.

The reason is a very thorough investigation by the police into all of the facts and all possible charges that she may face. They are not going to arrest her simply because she may have been captured on CCTV and then go ahead and investigate the fraud. She is more valuable to the police right where she is for now.
 
  • #738
  • #739
Wouldn't it be great if it was her drivers licence.. however it would have meant that Hazel would have had to visited a Service SA centre (assuming it is a SA license, may be different in NT) to have the license reissued with a new photo. If you report your license as stolen they just issue another one with the same photo on it, however if you transfer from another state, which would be my guess at the reason given in this instance, you have to attend and have a photo taken.

The problem for Hazel is that she is obviously disabled.. and would require special conditions on her license to be noted. It isn't as if she just has something she may be able to hide, such as vision impairment, eplipesy etc.. she is in a wheel chair and only has one leg!
I have attached the current application form for reissue/ application of license in SA . The identity check documents are interesting btw in that they don't have to be photo id.
http://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/17093/MR0205.pdf

Addit: whilst we are on the topic of the identity fraud, one of the most common requests when proving identity to government departments, is the presentation of evidence of current residency ie. usually a Utility bill or bank statement addressed to current address. The perpetrators may have continued to use Karlees address in Alice Springs, but if this was the case they would have had to be able to intercept the mail, because grandma would have twigged to new drivers license arriving in the post with someone elses photo on it. A very dangerous risky thing to do for a few thousand dollars... But this case continues to confuse me.

Your suggestions are all sound visioneye if all of this was done legally. I don't believe for one minute that HP and DH did anything by the book. I didn't suggest that HP's driver's license was defrauded. That would mean she was trying to pass herself off as herself. What I suggested was that Karlie's driver's license may have been doctored by HP and/or DH.
 
  • #740
Good call Dutch! I wondered where you were going with that :)

IMO it is. If Khandalyce's body was kept somewhere without people being alarmed by the smell of decomposition, there must have been a reason for that.

If you can camouflage cannabis smell, it might also work for decomposition odour.
 
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