AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[Makara]

Yes, I think she believed she was sending it to Karlie.
Obviously this is all 100% guesswork, but remember how the police said that Karlie's phone had been used to contact family and friends?

Bray: "“We believe that the phone was kept by the offenders and used to provide some proof of life and to mislead family, friends,law enforcement by suggesting that Karlie was still alive because of activity on her phone.”
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/27/texts-karlie-pearce-stevenson-phone-sent-family-years-after

Imagine the scenario where Karlie runs from Alice Springs to HP in Adelaide and leaves a bank access card with her.
She is scared and doesn't want whoever she is running from to catch her.
So she arranges for HP to withdraw cash and then send it to her, wherever she is.
This creates the impression that she is still in Adelaide.

Unfortunately, someone else knows of the arrangement and after Karlie's death they continue contacting "family and friends" and getting money sent to them (even though HP and the family all think they are sending it to Karlie).

It was the "and friends" in the statement by Bray that originally lead me to this conclusion, and that is now strengthened IMO by the fact that HP has not been charged with any crime.

Frankly, and this is both interesting and very, very sad, but no other person has ever been mentioned as a friend of Karlie's; no other person who might have been "mislead", so I assume the friend is HP.

BBM: No, that scenario doesn't work for me. What I've taken from the information to date is that HP not only impersonated Karlie to her family but also to her friends. Friends don't do that to each other. HP has been named a suspect in the fraud and identity theft and IMO she is guilty.

There are in fact other friends of Karlie who have been named in MSM and the links have been posted in previous threads.

 

[Trooper]

KPS Expl. Drill. and other companies perhaps, partly?
I think, the Financial Forensic Service has much stuff to work on ...

that account has been inactive since it's inception. check it out. The only money that has been deposited regularly, in ''Karlie's ' account , . is , apart from the Gov Payment as a Single Parent, somebody's wages as well. .

 

[JaneSA]

Soz but I have to agree with Troop here. JaneSA.

I think if you believe KP & HP were friends (and I understand why) you would have to take the position that HP was not the impersonator/fraudster. The "helping" angle is baseless. So from an IUPG legal perspective if your feelings are strong about HP maybe you've got to go sleuthing for evidence/indications that she is innocent of the fraud? Though expect lots of protests from on here! [emoji1]

I agree.
I'd like to avoid using the term "believe" though, as it is just an idea, not a firmly held conviction.

But yes, if HP was assisting Karlie, even just initially, by withdrawing cash for her and then sending it by post to an address, I don't think she could also be the woman who went to ACCU in a wheelchair.

This idea rests on the notion that HP helped Karlie this way from the time she was last in Adelaide, and thought she was still helping Karlie for some period AFTER her death an AFTER her identity was stolen.
This makes HP as much a victim of the stolen identity scam as any member of her family.

I'm not wedded to this idea, but I'd ask people to consider it with an open mind.

 

[Trooper]

'So she arranges for HP to withdraw cash and then send it to her, wherever she is.
This creates the impression that she is still in Adelaide.

Unfortunately, someone else knows of the arrangement and after Karlie's death they continue contacting "family and friends" and getting money sent to them (even though HP and the family all think they are sending it to Karlie).' From JaneSA


this doesn't even make the smallest bit of sense.. the money Karlie's mum sent her, went to the SAME ACCOUNT HER GOVT PAYMENT went to. To Karlie's account. That is how the police know Colleen was scammed. Because Colleen sent the money after the date of Karlie's death. So now, you propose there are 2 accounts, one for the Gov Pension to go into, and one for the bits and pieces that is managed to be scammed out of Karlie's family. So there are now two scammers operating, both with access to Karlie's account, not known to each other, this is absurd and not even rational.

 

[Makara]

Yes, someone obviously had to know they were dead (or at least that Karlie was), otherwise there would have been no possibility of the fraud.
What we don't know yet is precisiely who knew she was dead.

BBM: Hang on. So now you're saying that they knew that Karlie and Khandalyce were dead otherwise there would have been no possibility of the fraud. But you've previously said that HP was a friend of Karlie's and was drawing money from her account simply to help Karlie, all the while believing that she was alive and in hiding!

 

[JaneSA]

BBM: No, that scenario doesn't work for me. What I've taken from the information to date is that HP not only impersonated Karlie to her family but also to her friends. Friends don't do that to each other. HP has been named a suspect in the fraud and identity theft and IMO she is guilty.
There are in fact other friends of Karlie who have been named in MSM and the links have been posted in previous threads.

Re freinds, I have only ever seen JA, the netball girls who lost contact and the former boyfriend who saw her at the bus stop when she was pregnant mentioned.
I don't get the impression that any of them were still close enough to Karlie by 2008 to be receiving the fake calls, but I guess you never know.

But I cannot, in all good conscience, ever agree that a person who is named as a suspect in any case is therefore automatically guilty; although I realise you say it is just your opinion.

I guess ultimately it always boils down to opinion and my own opinion of HP is poles apart from some people's.
I don't get the impression of a bad, manipulative or scheming person and I feel really sorry for her considering the cruel glare of publicity she has faced. Yet, to me, she seems to have remained poised, cooperative, calm and dignified throughout.
(And I won't blame her for the partner's egg throwing tantrum)

 

[Trooper]

It seems to me, that at some stage, someone would have noticed that Haze had a bit of extra income.. you would think the eggthrowing carer would notice that, but at the same time, I reckon Hazel would be as smooth as butter with any story... 'oh it's interest from my TAC payout,'... She would be good at hiding things, too, no one would ever find the 'Karlie ' card...


one of the mysteries I just cant get a handle on. The payments stopped, around 2011. .. Centrelink spat the dummy over something, some issue, and I cant think what it could be, considering the hurdles Hazel had already jumped over. . What made her/them give the game away ? what was the obstacle for this to go on? Khandalyce would have been officially 5.. school grant?

 

[JaneSA]

BBM: Hang on. So now you're saying that they knew that Karlie and Khandalyce were dead otherwise there would have been no possibility of the fraud. But you've previously said that HP was a friend of Karlie's and was drawing money from her account simply to help Karlie, all the while believing that she was alive and in hiding!

No, I am agreeing "someone" knew and that HP was duped too, just as the family were.

 

[Trooper]

No, I am agreeing "someone" knew and that HP was duped too, just as the family were.

so where did Hazel send Karlie's money to. Simple.

 

[visioneye]

Yes, I think she believed she was sending it to Karlie.
Obviously this is all 100% guesswork, but remember how the police said that Karlie's phone had been used to contact family and friends?

Bray: "“We believe that the phone was kept by the offenders and used to provide some proof of life and to mislead family, friends,law enforcement by suggesting that Karlie was still alive because of activity on her phone.”
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/27/texts-karlie-pearce-stevenson-phone-sent-family-years-after

Imagine the scenario where Karlie runs from Alice Springs to HP in Adelaide and leaves a bank access card with her.
She is scared and doesn't want whoever she is running from to catch her.
So she arranges for HP to withdraw cash and then send it to her, wherever she is.
This creates the impression that she is still in Adelaide.

Unfortunately, someone else knows of the arrangement and after Karlie's death they continue contacting "family and friends" and getting money sent to them (even though HP and the family all think they are sending it to Karlie).

It was the "and friends" in the statement by Bray that originally lead me to this conclusion, and that is now strengthened IMO by the fact that HP has not been charged with any crime.

Frankly, and this is both interesting and very, very sad, but no other person has ever been mentioned as a friend of Karlie's; no other person who might have been "mislead", so I assume the friend is HP.

IMO Karlee did have friends and I have never thought as Hazel as a friend of Karlee's and she has never been referred to as any more than an acquantance.
None of her behavior has indicated friendship imo.
She did have friends especially in Alice (school, netball, family associates), but they have responded with respect when questioned by the media, and so have not made headlines. Maybe Jane, all of Karlee's "real friends" and family have been well advised not to comment.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

that account has been inactive since it's inception. check it out. The only money that has been deposited regularly, in ''Karlie's ' account , . is , apart from the Gov Payment as a Single Parent, somebody's wages as well. .

If you're operating as a sole trader, there is no legal requirement for you to open a business bank account. You can use an existing bank account in your personal name.
If your business operates as a partnership, company or a trust, then it must have a separate bank account for tax purposes.

http://www.business.gov.au/business...ess-finances/Pages/business-bank-account.aspx

Why did KPS Expl. have no bank account and where can I see this? GST= inactive doesn't mean "no bank account", I would think.

 

[Maggie_May]

Wow now THAT would take some front wouldn't it! I would have thought that the Dept of Transport would have Karlie's original pic on file and would update it when a new one is required. Photo ID being such a prized commodity and there are very few categories of it which are acceptable under the points system. Breathtaking as that would be as a part of their bold fraud, I just honestly can't see them pulling that part off ?

The banks may well hold onto CCTV footage for any length of time before it is archived. It may not be CCTV footage though. The article stated that she was pictured impersonating Karlie. Did Hazel have to give an up to date photograph of herself along with Karlie's identity documents. Was the photograph on Karlie's driver's license replaced with one of Hazel?

 

[Trooper]

If you're operating as a sole trader, there is no legal requirement for you to open a business bank account. You can use an existing bank account in your personal name.
If your business operates as a partnership, company or a trust, then it must have a separate bank account for tax purposes.

http://www.business.gov.au/business...ess-finances/Pages/business-bank-account.aspx

Why has/had KPS Expl. no bank account and where can I see this? GST= inactive doesn't mean "no bank account", I would think.

BBM... there is absolutely no way anyone can answer that question satisfactorily .. because it would require having an inside track into the holder of the ABN's mind.. Since I don't have that, and I don't want that, and I cant think of anyone else who would want that, that question is called 'dead' . it has no capability of breathing on it's own.

Inactive in this context, means, that no claim has been made , no commercial activity, no industrial activity , no financial activity , no entering of this ABN into the stream of business, or private accounts has occurred.. it is like Monty Python's parrot. It is dead. It is inactive. It is inoperative. Nothing has flowed into it, or out of it into a bank account at any time.

 

[visioneye]

I have attended "trade" shows with many people I would not consider friends.. Cars IMO were part of the legit trade
Addit: Also in this post FaceBook world the word "friend" is too easily abused IMO.

 

[JaneSA]

If you're operating as a sole trader, there is no legal requirement for you to open a business bank account. You can use an existing bank account in your personal name.
If your business operates as a partnership, company or a trust, then it must have a separate bank account for tax purposes.

http://www.business.gov.au/business...ess-finances/Pages/business-bank-account.aspx

Why did KPS Expl. have no bank account and where can I see this? GST= inactive doesn't mean "no bank account", I would think.

You are correct FG.
Not being register for GST does not mean an ABN is inactive, it may just mean any earnings are below the GST threshold.
Also correct that you can use any bank account.

 

[JaneSA]

Wow now THAT would take some front wouldn't it! I would have thought that the Dept of Transport would have Karlie's original pic on file and would update it when a new one is required. Photo ID being such a prized commodity and there are very few categories of it which are acceptable under the points system. Breathtaking as that would be as a part of their bold fraud, I just honestly can't see them pulling that part off ?

You know a weird thing though? In SA if you just renew your driver's licence annually you never need to get a new photo.
They just keep using the old one.
My own expires in 2017 but still has a photo from 1999.

 

[Makara]

Re freinds, I have only ever seen the netball girls who lost contact and the former boyfriend who saw her at the bus stop when she was pregnant mentioned.
I don't get the impression that any of them were still close enough to Karlie by 2008 to be receiving the fake calls, but I guess you never know.

But I cannot, in all good conscience, ever agree that a person who is named as a suspect in any case is therefore automatically guilty; although I realise you say it is just your opinion.

I guess ultimately it always boils down to opinion and my own opinion of HP is poles apart from some people's.
I don't get the impression of a bad, manipulative or scheming person and I feel really sorry for her considering the cruel glare of publicity she has faced. Yet, to me, she seems to have remained poised, cooperative, calm and dignified throughout.
(And I won't blame her for the partner's egg throwing tantrum)

Yes JaneSA, we're all entitled to our own opinion. I respect your opinions in this case but I don't agree with them at all. Having said that, this is not a competition to see who is right and who is wrong. It ultimately boils down to who is guilty of fraud, identity theft and the murder of both Karlie and Khandalyce.

I can understand that you may feel sorry for HP. What she went through in regard to the MVA in September of 2008 is horrific and I don't know how I would personally cope with something like that.

I personally believe that Karlie also felt sorry for both HP and DH after the MVA and that sympathy ultimately cost Karlie her life. The subsequent fraud, identity theft and continuation to dupe her family and friends into believing she and Khandalyce were still alive is absolutely despicable IMO. DH has been charged with Karlie's murder and the police must have the evidence to have charged him. HP has been named as a suspect in the fraud and identify theft. I trust the investigators and where they're going with this case.

 

[Freddo Frog]

a theory has to have some capacity to run by itself on sense, Freddo. Random and disconnected ideas, plucked out of one's imagination with no empirical parallel support is not a theory. Theories are sometimes different ways of looking at something, but looking at something and making up an entirely unsupported fantasy is not a theory. It is a fantasy. . .. if it is theory you wish to play with, it would be wiser to know what a theory is. No one is entitled to make up a fantasy about a murdered woman and her tiny child. That is the outer limit of grotesque.

You wrote (had to cut and paste, sorry, I think it was post 108 on this thread, and I'd like to point out that your "in my opinion" was added after I orgininally read it) -

oh everything he does is so petty, so pernickety, so small minded, so timid , so sly..... murdering a tiny young girl, murdering her tinier younger daughter, stealing her identity, stealing the identity of her child, all for small amounts dribbled in week after week, no grand gesture, all skulking cowardice,.... the holding on to Khandalyce's birth certificate, using Karlie's key card and her birth certificate ( he must have had this in his possession to take out the ABN"s ) the slithery withdrawals from various ATM's, the repulsive burial ceremonies for his victims, the dribbling drooling drops of theft , $200 at a time max, year after year, the dribs and drabs of it. .. crawling around the AU countryside, slipping into various alias's , conducting himself as this person, then that person, all drab people, flicking thru his stack of idiotic ABN cards, pretending he is Twiggy, when his employment record will show he couldn't hold a job anywhere for long.. ... disgusting. In my opinion.

Some of these comments appear to be your own random and disconnected ideas. He has NOT been charged with murdering Khandalyce, he has not been charged with stealing Khandalyce's identity, he has not been alleged to have carried out repulsive burial ceremonies for his victims etc. To me, you are just throwing out various ideas as many of us are considering how little we have been given by police and media. How on earth can you even substantiate your claim that he was pretending to be Twiggy (I assume you refer to Forrest)? I find that some of your posts are insightful and I appreciate them, I even publicly agree with you, but sometimes you need to just think about the effect your words could have on others.

<modsnip>

 

[Trooper]

You wrote (had to cut and paste, sorry, I think it was post 108 on this thread, and I'd like to point out that your "in my opinion" was added after I orgininally read it) -

oh everything he does is so petty, so pernickety, so small minded, so timid , so sly..... murdering a tiny young girl, murdering her tinier younger daughter, stealing her identity, stealing the identity of her child, all for small amounts dribbled in week after week, no grand gesture, all skulking cowardice,.... the holding on to Khandalyce's birth certificate, using Karlie's key card and her birth certificate ( he must have had this in his possession to take out the ABN"s ) the slithery withdrawals from various ATM's, the repulsive burial ceremonies for his victims, the dribbling drooling drops of theft , $200 at a time max, year after year, the dribs and drabs of it. .. crawling around the AU countryside, slipping into various alias's , conducting himself as this person, then that person, all drab people, flicking thru his stack of idiotic ABN cards, pretending he is Twiggy, when his employment record will show he couldn't hold a job anywhere for long.. ... disgusting. In my opinion.

Some of these comments appear to be your own random and disconnected ideas. He has NOT been charged with murdering Khandalyce, he has not been charged with stealing Khandalyce's identity, he has not been alleged to have carried out repulsive burial ceremonies for his victims etc. To me, you are just throwing out various ideas as many of us are considering how little we have been given by police and media. How on earth can you even substantiate your claim that he was pretending to be Twiggy (I assume you refer to Forrest)? I find that some of your posts are insightful and I appreciate them, I even publicly agree with you, but sometimes you need to just think about the effect your words could have on others.

<modsnip>

ok so where and to whom did Hazel sent Karlie's money to. ? Jane wont answer this, maybe you have a 'theory' . and I'm interested.

 

[JaneSA]

Yes JaneSA, we're all entitled to our own opinion. I respect your opinions in this case but I don't agree with them at all. Having said that, this is not a competition to see who is right and who is wrong. It ultimately boils down to who is guilty of fraud, identiy theft and the murder of both Karlie and Khandalyce.
I can understand that you may feel sorry for HP. What she went through in regard to the MVA in September of 2008 is horrific and I don't know how I would personally cope with something like that.
I personally believe that Karlie also felt sorry for both HP and DH after the MVA and that sympathy ultimately cost Karlie her life. The subsequent fraud, identity theft and continuation to dupe her family and friends into believing she and Khandalyce were still alive is absolutely despicable IMO. DH Has been charged with Karlie's murder and the police must have the evidence to have charged him. HP has been named as a suspect in the fraud and identify theft. I trust the investigators and where they're going with this case.

I agree. I too don't see any aspect of this discussion as a "competition".
I simply see it as just a discussion, nothing more.
IMO there are no correct opinions or incorrect opinions, just opinions.
I don't personally get emotional about my opinions, but I am aware that some people do, so I do my best to respect that.

I agree that it seems that Karlie probably felt devastated for HP after her loss and may have felt for DH too, if she met him post-accident in some sort of trauma counselling.
I also agree that everything about this case is despicable, but really we know so little, so until a person is tried and proven guilty, I reserve my right to maintain an open mind.

Numerous people are charged with offences every year, only to have the charges dropped later, and similarly, many people are named as a suspect but never ultimately charged with any crime.