AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[Maggie_May]

"Police know the victim was a little under a metre tall and had shoulder-length fair hair. They know that as long as seven years ago she died extremely violently, almost certainly murdered. Certain fractures suggest she was bashed to death. A defence lawyer might argue that such injuries could be accidental — but why would anyone would hide the body of a child who died in a genuine accident?"

Another "factoid" I just do not remember reading before..?? I can only recall the "died a violent death" BBM

The killer or someone close to him or her then covered the body in a pile of clothes — maybe in an empty room, a cupboard or a shed. Then they left it for years — long enough to be reduced to a skeleton.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...a/news-story/840510a05a67a2c19e8e4f9dc78f33ce

How about this:https://www.google.nl/search?q=grow...ved=0ahUKEwjv-9ii5rjJAhUEkA8KHdcUB7oQ_AUIBygC

for an empty room, a cupboard or a shed?

 

[visioneye]

Your suggestions are all sound visioneye if all of this was done legally. I don't believe for one minute that HP and DH did anything by the book. I didn't suggest that HP's driver's license was defrauded. That would mean she was trying to pass herself as herself. What I suggested was that Karlie's driver's license may have been doctored by HP and/or DH.

Agree totally Makara, it would have been unlikely to have been legitimately done by HP, for the reasons I have highlighted.
All I was highlighting was that it was unlikely that HP would have been able to have got one legit.. sorry I wasn't more clear. Absolutely much more likely if it was HP that she used a black market fake drivers license.. Either way if she did it, they have her photo. :jail: time negotiable IMO

 

[Freddo Frog]

Your suggestions are all sound visioneye if all of this was done legally. I don't believe for one minute that HP and DH did anything by the book. I didn't suggest that HP's driver's license was defrauded. That would mean she was trying to pass herself as herself. What I suggested was that Karlie's driver's license may have been doctored by HP and/or DH.

It is quite possible, good suggestion! Qld has moved from laminated cards to one more like a credit card with a chip in them which makes it so much harder to fake, but a laminated type one could be easily doctored.

 

[Trooper]

Excellent points about the driver's licence Visioneye.
You are right that HP would have special conditions on hers, making it so much harder to fake.
And, yep, I agree, it is just crazy to take such risks for a few thousand dollars. I can't see the money being the motive at all.
Personally, I still believe HP thought she was helping Karlie who she thought was alive and was on the run.
I think this also explains why she has not been charged.

BBM..

I fail to see how it would help 'Karlie' by stealing her money from her bank account , money deposited by the AU Gov. One must assume then, that Hazel was sending the money on and not keeping it herself.. To where? to whom? there has to be a whole backstory to prop this belief up. On the run from whom?

And then there is the unlikely scenario that Hazel does this for the girl who her boyfriend ran off with. ..while she is in the hospital rendered a paraplegic , children dead, and about to lose a leg.. and he was the driver... noooooooo... doesn't seem likely to me. It certainly isn't what I would be thinking of doing. Or anyone else I know.

Hazel hasn't been charged because her Barrister can fend that off for a while yet, certainly till after Holdom's next mention in court. After that, the wheels will turn a bit faster for Hazel, because every single transaction made, every withdrawal, every impersonated event, both with Centrelink ( a different kind of fraud to the bank fraud ) has to be logged, and sworn to , I think Des Bray mentioned at least 1200 transactions. All illegal. Each one a court case in itself.

1200 individual crimes, because that is what this fraud is, is quite a big case. There is no hurry.. now that the bodies of Khandalyce and Karlie are known, and documented and returned to their families, the full eye of the law will be staring down the long corridor of this hideous and cruel crime.

 

[BlueBayou]

Personally, I still believe HP thought she was helping Karlie who she thought was alive and was on the run.
I think this also explains why she has not been charged.

I can't see how Karlie could be helped by HP impersonating her at Centrelink.Also IMO she took a huge risk going to her local Centrelink office and bank when she could have easily gone to one further from home.

 

[JaneSA]

"The pair had met through a mutual group, which Ms Harris said shared the attributes of “unfortunate circumstances”."

Ug! The longer I look at this sentence the more convinced I become that there is a specific, but heavily veiled, meaning.

Looking at the options, none seem to require this peculiar sentence structure.

NarcAnon - just say "they met through a group they both belonged to". Although, by it's nature, SH wouldn't and couldn't possibly know that anyway.

Socially through friends - just say "met through friends"

Working together - "met through work"

Only a post-trauma support group seems to me to fit this particular description.


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...in-alice-springs/story-fni6uo1m-1227628835165

 

[JaneSA]

I can't see how Karlie could be helped by HP impersonating her at Centrelink.Also IMO she took a huge risk going to her local Centrelink office and bank when she could have easily gone to one further from home.

If HP had thought Karlie was still alive, on the run, and unable to return home.
If HP believed Karlie had disappeared voluntarily because of the bounty and was helping her out by managing things back in SA for her.

 

[Trooper]

If HP had thought Karlie was still alive, on the run, and unable to return home.
If HP believed Karlie had disappeared voluntarily because of the bounty and was helping her out by managing things back in SA for her.

so where did she send Karlie's money to? ... you have to have a rational story here. 1/2 a one just doesn't cut it. . . if Hazel is managing Karlie's ( and Khandalyce's ) money, what does the management consist of? either Hazel is stealing it, or she sends it on to 'Karlie' ( because the real Karlie is dead as of Dec 2008 and the real Khandalyce is dead, too, and the 'money management' goes on until Dec 2011. ) .. so where does she send it to?

 

[Makara]

so where did she send Karlie's money to? ... you have to have a rational story here. 1/2 a one just doesn't cut it. . . if Hazel is managing Karlie's ( and Khandalyce's ) money, what does the management consist of? either Hazel is stealing it, or she sends it on to 'Karlie' ( because the real Karlie is dead as of Dec 2008 and the 'money management goes on until Dec 2011. ) .. so where does she send it to?

Well she certainly wasn't sending Karlie's money to her mother! In fact she was taking money from Karlie's mother! What was that all about? To send it to Karlie?

 

[Wolfinator]

so where did she send Karlie's money to? ... you have to have a rational story here. 1/2 a one just doesn't cut it. . . if Hazel is managing Karlie's ( and Khandalyce's ) money, what does the management consist of? either Hazel is stealing it, or she sends it on to 'Karlie' ( because the real Karlie is dead as of Dec 2008 and the 'money management goes on until Dec 2011. ) .. so where does she send it to?

Soz but I have to agree with Troop here. JaneSA.

I think if you believe KP & HP were friends (and I understand why) you would have to take the position that HP was not the impersonator/fraudster. The "helping" angle is baseless. So from an IUPG legal perspective if your feelings are strong about HP maybe you've got to go sleuthing for evidence/indications that she is innocent of the fraud? <modsnip>


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Amee]

October 27

Investigators have also revealed a number of sightings of people purporting to be Ms Pearce-Stevenson.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/girl...e-in-90000-20151027-gkjpxi.html#ixzz3t3lMVUgm

 

[Amee]

Well she certainly wasn't sending Karlie's money to her mother! In fact she was taking money from Karlie's mother! What was that all about? To send it to Karlie?

And keeping Karlies phone for proof of life!

:banghead:

 

[Trooper]

Well she certainly wasn't sending Karlie's money to her mother! In fact she was taking money from Karlie's mother! What was that all about? To send it to Karlie?

Maybe St Hazel withdrew the money from Karlie's account, ( up to around $100.000.00 all up over the years,) and she wrapped it up in linen covered bundles, and put strong rubber bands around them, and put it all in a suitcase and hid it under her bed, and now she has handed it all over to Des Bray. Every dollar. Sure. .Sure. I can see that happening.. Or maybe she set up the Khandalyce Infant Support Grant and bankrolled a day care centre.... or no.. wait. .wait. , I got it. Haze uses the Karlie money to provide little tutu's to all the kids in Davoren to promote culture. ..

 

[Makara]

Police say it is clear that some of the people involved in the frauds knew "without doubt" that Ms Pearce-Stevenson and Khandalyce were dead.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/girl...e-in-90000-20151027-gkjpxi.html#ixzz3t3pLOm9L

Not just Karlie but Karlie and Khandalyce. These people are unbelievable! With friends like them, you wouldn't need enemies!

 

[Trooper]

Police say it is clear that some of the people involved in the frauds knew "without doubt" that Ms Pearce-Stevenson and Khandalyce were dead.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/girl...e-in-90000-20151027-gkjpxi.html#ixzz3t3pLOm9L

Not just Karlie but Karlie and Khandalyce. These people are unbelievable! With friends like them, you wouldn't need enemies!

and if these people knew without doubt, it stands to reason they would know that it was a violent death , Karlie, and Khandalyce. . the violent death of a 2y old. . . . and no one says anything..

 

[Trooper]

In the same year a woman went into a Centrelink branch at Salisbury in South Australia and falsely represented that she was Ms Pearce-Stevenson.

"And produced identity documents for herself and Khandalyce," Det Supt Bray said.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/girl...e-in-90000-20151027-gkjpxi.html#ixzz3t3tEKb3W


and that is interesting to me, .. I figure, the document re Khandalyce must have been a birth certificate, ( unless there were certified copies going around ) ... yet Khandalyce's birth certificate then winds up in Holdom's sisters place, perhaps in a suitcase, in the ACT.

Superintendent Bray said Ms Pearce-Stevenson's account was accessed in at least four different jurisdictions - the Northern Territory, South Australia, the ACT and NSW. and this is interesting , too, because the police have not released any details of the fraudulent transactions in NSW.

 

[JaneSA]

Well she certainly wasn't sending Karlie's money to her mother! In fact she was taking money from Karlie's mother! What was that all about? To send it to Karlie?

Yes, I think she believed she was sending it to Karlie.
Obviously this is all 100% guesswork, but remember how the police said that Karlie's phone had been used to contact family and friends?

Bray: "“We believe that the phone was kept by the offenders and used to provide some proof of life and to mislead family, friends,law enforcement by suggesting that Karlie was still alive because of activity on her phone.”
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/27/texts-karlie-pearce-stevenson-phone-sent-family-years-after

Imagine the scenario where Karlie runs from Alice Springs to HP in Adelaide and leaves a bank access card with her.
She is scared and doesn't want whoever she is running from to catch her.
So she arranges for HP to withdraw cash and then send it to her, wherever she is.
This creates the impression that she is still in Adelaide.

Unfortunately, someone else knows of the arrangement and after Karlie's death they continue contacting "family and friends" and getting money sent to them (even though HP and the family all think they are sending it to Karlie).

It was the "and friends" in the statement by Bray that originally lead me to this conclusion, and that is now strengthened IMO by the fact that HP has not been charged with any crime.

Frankly, and this is both interesting and very, very sad, but no other person has ever been mentioned as a friend of Karlie's; no other person who might have been "mislead", so I assume the friend is HP.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

so where did she send Karlie's money to? ... you have to have a rational story here. 1/2 a one just doesn't cut it. . . if Hazel is managing Karlie's ( and Khandalyce's ) money, what does the management consist of? either Hazel is stealing it, or she sends it on to 'Karlie' ( because the real Karlie is dead as of Dec 2008 and the real Khandalyce is dead, too, and the 'money management' goes on until Dec 2011. ) .. so where does she send it to?

KPS Expl. Drill. and other companies perhaps, partly?
I think, the Financial Forensic Service has much stuff to work on ...

 

[JaneSA]

Police say it is clear that some of the people involved in the frauds knew "without doubt" that Ms Pearce-Stevenson and Khandalyce were dead.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/girl...e-in-90000-20151027-gkjpxi.html#ixzz3t3pLOm9L

Not just Karlie but Karlie and Khandalyce. These people are unbelievable! With friends like them, you wouldn't need enemies!

Yes, someone obviously had to know they were dead (or at least that Karlie was), otherwise there would have been no possibility of the fraud.
What we don't know yet is precisiely who knew she was dead.

 

[Trooper]

Yes, I think she believed she was sending it to Karlie.
Obviously this is all 100% guesswork, but remember how the police said that Karlie's phone had been used to contact family and friends?

Bray: "&#8220;We believe that the phone was kept by the offenders and used to provide some proof of life and to mislead family, friends,law enforcement by suggesting that Karlie was still alive because of activity on her phone.&#8221;
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/27/texts-karlie-pearce-stevenson-phone-sent-family-years-after

Imagine the scenario where Karlie runs from Alice Springs to HP in Adelaide and leaves a bank access card with her.
She is scared and doesn't want whoever she is running from to catch her.
So she arranges for HP to withdraw cash and then send it to her, wherever she is.
This creates the impression that she is still in Adelaide.

Unfortunately, someone else knows of the arrangement and after Karlie's death they continue contacting "family and friends" and getting money sent to them (even though HP and the family all think they are sending it to Karlie).

It was the "and friends" in the statement by Bray that originally lead me to this conclusion, and that is now strengthened IMO by the fact that HP has not been charged with any crime.

Frankly, and this is both interesting and very, very sad, but no other person has ever been mentioned as a friend of Karlie's; no other person who might have been "mislead", so I assume the friend is HP.

BBM so where does she send the money to? you have to have a rational story, Jane. ..it's not complicated.. where does she place the money for 'Karlie' to access. . see? It isn't reasonable to claim that Hazel wanders down to Glenelg, say, and leaves a bundle of money on the lightrail for 'Karlie'.. or drops it in a bush at Gawler Park and runs off, with her eyes closed as per instructions.. . there has to be rationale to it..

Quite a few of Karlie's friends have been mentioned, one from Renmark comes to mind immediately, Karlie lived there with her at Renmark for a few weeks. Do the research.