Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[MrJ]

4m ago
Accused helped police find leftovers 'without hesitation', defence tells jury

By Joseph Dunstan

Mr Mandy then focuses on another aspect of Erin Patterson's behaviour after the lunch, when she gave assistance to police who were looking for lunch leftovers.

He says his client helped them "without hesitation" and this "must mean" that she did not know at that time that they would be poisoned.

"This pedantic point about whether or not that was volunteering is nonsense, in our submission," he says.

"A guilty person, you would think, planning carefully ... would have already thrown them out ... put them in a neighbour's bin, or public bin, buried them in the backyard ... instead of directing the police where to find the evidence that there were death cap mushrooms in the meal."

 

[drsleuth]

They were terrible investigators, except Erin, who dug up things on everyone and kept files on them, and harassed and stalked a lot of people (who were not criminals).

Did she post here? Only answer if you can thou.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Key Event
1m ago
Defence says prosecution claims around lunch leftovers is 'speculation'

By Joseph Dunstan

Mr Mandy recaps the prosecution's theory of the individually parcelled beef Wellingtons, telling the jury that if the prosecution can't prove a non-poisoned beef Wellington existed then that theory fails.

He says the prosecution case requires that Ms Patterson ate all of her beef Wellington, because otherwise leftovers without poison would have been found in her bin.

"This is an example of creating a theory where no evidence exists to support it," Mr Mandy tells the jury.

Does he really think it's so hard to believe she ate her whole serve? No offense, but .

Edited to correct American "serving" to proper Australianese "serve."

 

[drsleuth]

4m ago06.31 BST
Mandy says Patterson only disposed of the dehydrator after the meal. He says if she planned to murder her lunch guests she would have disposed of the dehydrator well before the lunch.

He says it is unlikely Patterson would have posted photos of the dehydrator, which the prosecution alleges is the murder weapon, in a group chat with Facebook friends she met in an online true crime group.

He says Patterson driving to the tip to dispose of the dehydrator in her own car and paying for this with her own bank card highlight what “can only be panic”.

Erin Patterson mushroom trial day 33 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[MrJ]

She sure had a lot of hesitation helping healthcare workers, child protection, etc, from what their evidence was

 

[MrJ]

Just now
Accused was likely 'consistent' with people spoken to after lunch, defence says

By Joseph Dunstan

Ms Patterson's defence lawyer then tells the jury his client spoke to many people in the aftermath of the lunch, and highlights that her cross-examination involved many specific questions about those conversations.

"It's very difficult to imagine a more intense, surgical examination of someone's account, for such a long period of time in the witness box, where they've sworn to the tell the truth, where they're being scrutinised by people, you, who are going to be judging them," he says.

He outlines that there were health department, child protection, medical and police investigations during the days after the lunch.

"Our submission to you, it's very likely that she was being consistent and giving the same account to those people, but those people had different emphases in terms of the questions they were asking," he says.

 

[Detechtive]

I wonder who that was.

No it actually wasn't me. I did have a police interview and was a prosecution witness (the lead detectives flew to my state and interviewed me), but I was excused for personal reasons. Some of my evidence was used in the opening, though.
I wasn't friends with Erin directly prior to this luncheon. I had seen her troublesome behaviours prior and disconnected from her (thank goodness).

The friends are mostly the people who went forth to police under duress, who have been reported in the media. Dani Barkley, Christine Hunt, Jenny Hay.
They provided group evidence of the powdered mushrooms, pics of Death Caps, etc. It wasn't me, but I was involved in telling them to do the right thing.

 

[drsleuth]

3.27pm

No anger, no hatred: Defence team’s missing ingredients for a motive for murder​

Erin Patterson’s defence barrister, Colin Mandy, SC, is challenging the prosecution’s suggestion that child support disputes fuelled a motive for murder.

He referred to some evidence from Simon Patterson, his client’s estranged husband, from earlier in the trial. The evidence is about a message to Patterson where Simon had suggested getting a mediator to help them navigate issues around the payments.

He reminded the jury that Simon had told the court that Patterson had sent an “extremely aggressive” message to a Signal family group around this time in December 2022.

“Very obviously and unambiguously was saying that the extremely aggressive message was about this issue,” Mandy said.

Mandy said he had suggested to Simon at the time that perhaps Patterson was “just hurt”, to which he responded that perhaps Mandy should bring up the messages that he was referring to.

The barrister said he showed the messages to Simon the following sitting day and read some of the messages in court, which included a message about visiting the set of the movie The Hobbit.

“They’re not extremely aggressive,” Mandy said. “Then [Simon’s] memory became that it was at some other time.”

Mandy said Simon then told the court the messages were about his son being too tired and not sleeping on the weekend, but he said there was “no record of that at all” in the messages uncovered in the case.

Mandy said often times emotions could run high between two people, and there was nothing unusual about it.

“In some cases, it would be unusual if there wasn’t that kind of spats and disagreements,” Mandy said.

But he said that it did not provide “any kind of motive to murder someone’s parents and their uncle and aunt”.

Mandy said there was no anger, aggression, or hatred between Simon and Patterson, and between Patterson and her in-laws.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 33 as it happened: Accused mushroom cook lied to authorities and in witness box, prosecutor says in concluding argument; defence argues no intent, panic explains actions

Inside courtroom four in Morwell, Patterson, on trial for murder, listened intently as prosecutor Nanette Rogers, SC, concluded her closing argument, and defence barrister Colin Mandy, SC, commenced his.

www.theage.com.au

 

[LinasK]

They were terrible investigators, except Erin, who dug up things on everyone and kept files on them, and harassed and stalked a lot of people (who were not criminals).

She so sounds like the type to hold a grudge. I've learned alot about her from this trial. And exactly the type to be a poisoner because she thinks she's smarter than everyone else and would lie and get away with it. I have no doubts that she made previous attempts on Simon. Too bad it couldn't be introduced into this trial. So what that her house was landscaped? It clearly wasn't enough for her, neither was being well-off financially and having her kids. And I don't believe she's the doting mother Mandy is portraying her to be. She only cared how she felt about Simon's relatives IMO, not depriving her children of them or sneaking mushrooms into their food, pulling them from school to get tested for a deadly poison.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Mandy's got nothing, but he's paid (well) to make a noise.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

now05.52 BST
Mandy says without a motive the jury is “left guessing about the most important element of this trial and that’s intention”, he says.

He says the prosecution has spent a lot of time “scratching around” to find evidence about animosity in Patterson’s family dynamics.

He points to evidence the prosecution led about Patterson and Simon having a dispute about child support and other financial arrangements in December 2022.

“They want to show there was some kind of difficulty … and that might provide a reason to murder his parents and his aunt and uncle six months later,” he says.

“Even saying it aloud … shows how unpersuasive that argument is.”

Mandy says the disputes over finances for their children occurred over a few days in December 2022.

“It was a brief spat, we say, about child support, which the evidence says was resolved amicably.”

“Obviously Erin was upset. She freely acknowledged that. She was venting to her Facebook friends … even months before the lunch.”

Erin Patterson mushroom trial day 33 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

We don't need to know the motive, remember Mr Landy?

 

[MrJ]

"Our submission to you, it's very likely that she was being consistent and giving the same account to those people, but those people had different emphases in terms of the questions they were asking," he says.

Is Mandy implying the witnesses took EP out of context?

 

[Sarahlou]

Just catching up. Great job by the prosecution!

 

[MaxDecimus13]

@ MaxDecimus13
Not familar w the name, Sir Bob Massingbird.

Glad I was curious enough to do a quick search.
Time to (re)stream some old episodes of Blackadder.

Fwiw: Find - IMDb

Now, back to the trial.

I remember Massingbird's most famous case: the Case of the Bloody Knife. A man was found next to a murdered body. He had the knife in his hand. 13 witnesses had seen him stab the victim. And when the police arrived, he said "I'm glad I killed the b*****d." Massingbird not only got him off; he got him knighted in the New Year's Honours List. And the relatives of the victim had to pay to wash the blood out of his jacket!

 

[JBowie]

I am so far unmoved by the defence arguments - not like i was the first time. It is not working, IMO

All of those stories and lies that she told and all the hiding of phones and computers are to be simply filed under "panic"?

It's pity that the prosecution doesn't have rebuttal rights here.

 

[drsleuth]

15:20

Prosecution's case 'doesn't make sense', defence claims​

Mr Mandy said Patterson would have known her guests would have 'got sick very quickly and died'.
'She pushed her hand regardless,' Mr Mandy said the Crown (prosecutor Dr Rogers is pictured) had suggested.
'She invited them all to her house so that everyone else knew they were coming to her house, it wasn't a secret.
'She decided to feed them all in her own house … and that prosecution theory doesn't make any sense.'
Mr Mandy said she would never have bought the dehydrator in her own name with her own credit card from a local store, take photos of it, and take photos of mushrooms in it, share those photos online, and wait for 'so long after the meal to get rid of the dehydrator'.
Mr Mandy said Patterson 'panicked'.


15:31

Patterson tossed dehydrator in a 'panic'​

The defence has questioned why Patterson would post an image of her dehydrator 'murder weapon' to an online true crime group while again pointing out the lack of motive.
'Not only is there no motive, there are very good reasons not to harm them,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said these were the only people she had in the world that supported her.
Mr Mandy said the purchase of the dehydrator was shared to a true crime group and he suggested that 'to do so made no sense for someone supposedly planning a murder'.
Mr Mandy told the jury she posted the 'murder weapon' to a true crime group at a time the prosecution claimed she was planning to use it to kill her in laws.
'The one thing you do if you're planning a murder is to get rid of the murder weapon,’ Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said the timing of the disposal of that dehydrator was 'important'.
'It speaks volumes about her frame of mind,' he said.
'It could only have been panic, not because she's guilty, but that's what people might think.'


15:38

Patterson helpful about leftovers​

Mr Mandy has moved to the topic of the leftovers and what Patterson ate during the lunch.
The defence barrister said the prosecution had to prove there was one 'unpoisoned parcel' but no unpoisoned Wellington portion was found in the leftovers.
Mr Mandy said there was no evidence Patterson ate all her Wellington.
He also described the Crown's case as a 'charade' regarding what was found in the bin.
Mr Mandy told the jury the prosecution claimed there were 'clearly two halves' found in the bin.
But he said there was no evidence to suggest there were two halves in the bin because no one was asked about it.
Mr Mandy also claimed the Crown said Patterson was 'forced' to tell authorities the leftovers were in the bin.
'It's obviously not true,' Mr Mandy said.
'Here's the pin code for my gate, help yourself [is what Patterson told police].'
Mr Mandy said his client was co-operative about where the leftovers were.
'Without hesitation,' he said.
'This suggests at that time Ms Patterson did not know there was poison in them.'
Mr Mandy said a guilty person would have already have thrown the leftovers out.
'There had been two days to do all that instead of direct the police where (to find them),' he said.
'An innocent person would say "go grab them, help yourselves", that's what she did say.'

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[drsleuth]

ago15.41 AEST
Mandy tells the jury the prosecution’s theory of Patterson making individual beef wellingtons fails if they cannot prove a non-poisoned pasty exists.

He says the prosecution’s case means Patterson would have eaten all of her beef wellington otherwise there would have been non-poisoned beef wellingtons in her bin.

Patterson previously told the court that she did not eat all of her beef wellington and the remnants were in the bin outside her home.

“If her portions were in the bin then her portions were poisoned,” Mandy says.

Erin Patterson mushroom trial day 33 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Eloise]

All of those stories and lies that she told and all the hiding of phones and computers are to be simply filed under "panic"?

It's pity that the prosecution doesn't have rebuttal rights here.

Yeah I wish they did also, but for me I find the 'panic' defence in this case extremely weak. I don't think there's any other option for them, I think that's them clutching at the last available straw.

 

[Detechtive]

Did she post here? Only answer if you can thou.

She did, but she was quickly banned.

 

[drsleuth]

3.39pm

Big house, beautiful garden and a good place: Defence paints a picture of a woman content with her life​

By​

Inside courtroom four in Morwell, Erin Patterson, on trial for murder, looks teary in the dock as her defence barrister explains what she has to lose.

Colin Mandy, SC, maintains she never intended to kill anyone. He starts to paint a picture of his client as a woman content and looking to the future in 2023.

Losing his voice, he returns the jury to the dynamic between his client and her estranged husband. Even after they separated, he said, Patterson and Simon continued to treat their assets as joint assets. He added that the closeness between Patterson and Don and Gail and her children continued.

There was no doubt, he said, that Don and Gail Patterson had a great relationship with their grandchildren, and that Patterson was a devoted mother to her children.

Erin Patterson, her in-laws, Don and Gail Patterson (bottom right), and Gail’s sister, Heather Wilkinson (top right).Credit: Matthew Absalom-Wong

“[In 2023] Erin was in a good place. She had a big beautiful house. She had just landscaped the garden,” Mandy said.

He said that at the time Patterson had her children with her, she was looking forward to returning to studying.
“All things considered, she was in a good place,” Mandy said.

“In that context ... it is most unlikely she would have planned to murder people, especially if it’s inevitable it would be discovered.”

Mandy said that it was, according to the crown, a “carefully planned event, this lunch”.

“They weren’t ever clear about this but some of the arguments that they made were that this was some woman that had been thinking about this event, this lunch and planning it for months, at least since she bought the dehydrator and possibly visited Loch on the same day, that’s the theory,” Mandy said.

Mandy said it was inevitable that the focus would have been on the cook very, very quickly.

“Investigation was inevitable given how unwell these people were. And that’s exactly what happened. It was a certainty,” Mandy said.

Mandy said that Patterson invited her guests to her house so that everyone else knew that they were coming to the house.

“It wasn’t a secret,” he said. “All invited well in advance. All of them discussed the invitations with others in their family. She decided to feed them all in her own house. She decided to prepare a lavish, complicated meal that took a lot of time and effort. Not just a simple bolognaise ... And that prosecution theory in our submission doesn’t make any sense,” Mandy said.

He said Patterson never intended this to happen and if she had been planning this from April she would have never bought a dehydrator in her own name and details using her card from a local store, take photographs of the dehydrator, take photographs of the mushroom of the dehydrator, share the photos online, and then wait for so long after the meal before getting rid of the dehydrator.

“Erin Patterson did the opposite of all these things... because she never planned to kill anyone.″⁣

Erin Patterson murder trial day 33 as it happened: Accused mushroom cook lied to authorities and in witness box, prosecutor says in concluding argument; defence argues no intent, panic explains actions

Inside courtroom four in Morwell, Patterson, on trial for murder, listened intently as prosecutor Nanette Rogers, SC, concluded her closing argument, and defence barrister Colin Mandy, SC, commenced his.

www.theage.com.au